Ok, I can understand that viewpoint, what would you cut instead and why?Originally Posted by Angelfire
"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted." - John Lennon
For a build like:
// Lands
1 [B] Taiga
// Creatures
4 [IA] Tinder Wall
4 [FUT] Street Wraith
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
// Spells
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [MR] Goblin Charbelcher
3 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [SHM] Manamorphose
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [MR] Seething Song
4 [CHK] Desperate Ritual
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
Nothing needs to be cut. If you have to sideboard, you can board out ESG or Tinder Walls (depending on the situation).
I spoke poorly there. I didn't mean cut from the deck period, but what would you take out from the maindeck whilst SBing.
Having read your response, if you do cut the ESG, do you think that you will leave yourself low on Initial Mana Sources (IMS) to start yourself off. I understand that the ESG's are the weakest, but I also feel that you will have to mulligan more if you start taking IMS's out of the deck. I am also very shy of taking out mana accelerants such as Tinder Walls for that same reason, you want to generate as much mana as possible and the Tinder Walls act as a great filter for the ESG's.
Surely, by dropping either of these, instead of the draw, you are weakening your starting hands, as if you can't generate mana, Manamorphose is dead. Street Wraith is obviously another thing all together, but is also weak against very aggressive decks such as Zoo, Merfolk and Burn.
"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted." - John Lennon
If you're seriously cutting ESG over Manamorphose post-board, I think you've lost your credibility at this point. Manamorphose is completely unnecessary and Dark Ritual and Bayou have been added and cut from this deck so many times it's not even funny, you guys just need to re-read the thread and step re-inventing the wheel.
The problem with playing x8 cycling cards is that it is significantly harder to know when to mulligan. When you start with x2 Wraith and x1 Manamorphose in hand, you COULD draw good shit off the top of your library. Its also possible that you might not. The fact is you can't really know either way. At first glance 'virtually' changing the deck to 52 cards seems to increase the consistency. I think you've lost sight of the fact that this consistency is entirely virtual. Mulligans are an excellent way to increase consistency and your mulligans are going to be far worse when you cannot be sure whether or not they are keepable hands. Mulliganing is a crucial part of Belcher's strategy and distorting it leads you to rely more on luck than you think. If you want to actually try to increase mulligan consistency, try Serum Powder. Its a much better shot than running 8 cyclers.
Also, ESG and SSG are Daze protection. Cutting them instead of a cycle cards like MM seems counterintuitive when you want extra mana against control to protect you against Daze.
Luck is a residue of design.
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Expect me or die. I play SI.
When I'm running the deck, I count Street Wraith as about .8 of a mana, given the ratio of mana sources (41) to kill cards (11) and doing the simple EV calculation. Obviously, LEDs and seething songs and extra rites bumped this a bit, but in general I would never keep a hand that countained cantrips, but no initial mana source or kill condition.
I recently played Belcher in a small tourney, and I was sideboarding out Street Wraiths every game, and putting in Swarms or Chewers. If I needed both, I went to manamorphose next. I had no qualms with that whatsoever, especially with not running black for Rituals.
Ingot Chewer v. Shattering Spree?
You can wish for Shattering Spree and hit multiple annoying artifacts, but Chewer hits Chalice for 1 and destroys Bridge from Below.
You can always run a split, but I prefer Chewer.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
Am I wrong in thinking that you can shattering spree away a chalice at one?
Yes you definatlly can spree a chalice as it doesnt hit the replicate copies.
However, you have to pay more mana to replicate it while Chewer won't cost you more than 1 if you are just dealing with Chalice @ 1.
Luck is a residue of design.
I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
http://soundcloud.com/vacrix
Expect me or die. I play SI.
I am really looking into building this deck, the one land version. I really like belcher. How is Blood Moon, and what would you bring it in against?
I was wondering how to sideboard against control?
My meta consists of Elves, Gobbos, Merfolk, CBTop, and AdNas.
Thanks!
I tend to bring it in against decks with shaky mana bases such as Bant and Team America and sometimes even Reanimator if I think they aren't expecting it. Looking at your meta tho, I wouldn't bother, I would be tempted to run Red Blasts, as they will work well against Merfolk, CB and ANT!
"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted." - John Lennon
Ok I built the deck, and it is extremely fun to play. I love it. So I run the 1 land version (Dont have Bayou yet)...and wanted to know which version is better and why?
Also, I run Xantid Swarm in the Board, should it be blasts and why?
I can understand blasts, but Xantid Swarms seem amazing against control. If it resolves and doesn' die that is. Blasts require you to have 1 extra mana in play or in your hand, which isn't too hard...
Idk, wouldn't mind hearing some thoughts. Thanks!
In my opinion, one land is significantly better than two land. Two land makes Belcher not an automatic win condition, and it also makes the deck less consistant because you always want to land grant out the bayou instead of the taiga, giving yourself only green and black which most of your rituals are not. Dark ritual is awkward because you only have 9 sources in the deck to really get black from. The only advantage the 2 land version has in my book is the board options, but I prefer Xantid Swarms and blasts over anything anyway.
Since people were talking about running Blood Moon in this deck (which I think is AWFUL) I thought I'd bring this up for consideration:
Tectonic Instability
It makes them tap out if they want to continue hitting land drops. This deck already has an autowin against every nonblue deck, so I don't think we need to worry about how you don't care about nonblue decks tapping out or not. Our only opponents are Force of Will and Daze if we play Tectonic Instability. With the rising MUC deck I think this is a legit card against it.
Last edited by pokezel; 06-17-2010 at 04:50 PM. Reason: bad tags
-4 Street Wraith, +4 Grim Monolith.
That is all.
Meh. It's colorless so it stops all progression.
Also, due to the recent banning turn 2 bounce will be now a lot less likely. Thank you WotC!
Last edited by TestMonkey; 06-18-2010 at 12:38 PM.
Well, it's probably the last ritual cast most of the time, but it does allow for a few interesting interactions like banking mana off of land+mox or two lands, and it's gotta be better than trying to TD off of Wraith.
Why does the banning of [card]Mystical Tutor[/card] reduce the number of turn 2 wins with Belcher? I am a bit confuzzled!
I am going to split [card]Street Wraith[/card]s and [card]Manamorphose[/card]s for now, 2 and 2, so I am able to test with 4 Monoliths and see what is better in that slot.
"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted." - John Lennon
Fixed.
No more "wow that's a lot of goblins/unpopped Charbelcher on turn 1. End of your turn. Mystical Tutor for Echoing Truth." I really hated that play.
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