Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight
I think LED is kinda broken right now. Just think about the combo decks in Legacy, and with the exception of Hulk Flash and Solidarity, all the other decks run them. This is the main reason why Iggy Pop, Belcher, and TES are extremely fast. It is because how good LED is in combo decks.
I don't see them banning LED unless the format goes to mostly combo which the three main decks listed above just start dominating all the major Legacy tournaments.
The only thing I am expecting to be banned is both Hulk and Flash since Wizards usually ban multiple cards in a broken combo.
~Shriek~
Here's my off topic point of view:
Ban Flash for un-errataed brokeness
Ban Empty the Warrens-for semi-brokeness,
unBan Mind over Matter-doesn't matter, the card's too slow, kinda sucks
unBan Land Tax-good card, just not brokenly good
Don't touch LED it is good for non-Solidarity combo decks and not as brpken as ETW is for Belcher.
Then Legacy will be happy.
I don't think Empty the Warren is a problem card. Empty the Warrens makes storm combo much better by removing a weakness (having to gain full storm), but ultimately I think that's good for the format. Ultimately, that's not broken- Truffle Shuffle, in my testing, had a pretty decent CRET Belcher matchup, for instance, because on the play Deed usually shut down the ETW win. There are plenty of answers to 1/1 Tokens that don't have Haste. Even Goblins has Sharpshooter or Brightstone Ritual from the board.
LED enables a fairly easy first turn Belcher activation, which I think is a more serious problem.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
While the storm mechanic is pretty well established as a near broken ability, none of the "finishers" we use are broken without decks based around them, and being either faster than the hate, or more resilient.
They'll never end up on the B&R because of their specific needs, of either an opponent drawing a card, a minimum of 9 spells played + being able to target, or at least an additional 2 turns to swing into victory. Those really aren't "easy" requests, in comparison to broken combo-potential "powerhouses" like Yawgmoth's Win, Necro/Bargain, Memory Jar, and Academy, etc working with basically anything.
Why should Legacy be "slightly slower than Vintage" at turn 2-4 dominance?
Because you say so?
I see part of Legacy's attraction as being a casual players format....If you don't want to constantly keep buying cards, and worrying about what rotates in and out, play Legacy
If combo decks are consistently winning on turn 2, that will turn the casual player away in droves....People may rag on "scrubs," but the fact is, you need "scrubs" to make 10-person tourneys, 20-person tourneys, or 20-person tourneys 40 person tourneys....
Even if Flash and LED get banned, combo decks will still be very good.....Empty the Warrens helps them be less resilient to hate.....And they will get more resilient after Future Sight with the Pacts
It's in Wizards interest for the Legacy metagame to be as diverse as possible. Diversity of metagame threats means that deckbuilding and sideboard construction require more skill, and more matchups have to be playtested, which rewards greater skill and thus makes the game more interesting and fun. Further, the more diverse the decks are, the more old cards that are no longer playable elsewhere retain value, and thus the more people are encouraged to invest in the game long term. This is especially true when the valuable Legacy cards aren't the exact same as valuable Vintage cards.
But beyond that, there's no reason to neuter combo. It shouldn't be dominant, but it should be a viable option, preferably in several incarnations- the list of tiered combo decks at TES, CRET Belcher, Solidarity, Aluren and Iggy Pop before the addition of Flash, for instance, presented a powerful range of options and answers, although none were truly degenerate. Maybe Belcher.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
This is correct. Combo in Legacy while present has never dominated the metagame. If you combine all the different decks than perhaps they represent a large portion of the metagame, but they almost never represent a large portion of the T8. Most Legacy tournaments never have more than 1 or 2 combo decks in the T8 and almost none of them make the finals with some notable exceptions.
This is largely due to the fact that the second most played deck in the format inherantly destroys combo decks.
Not Hulk-Flash, though.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Well, obviously, but that's not the combo deck we're discussing.
Wizards is obviously pushing Legacy to be a more competitive format otherwise it wouldn't be getting another Grand Prix. As the level of events increases so is the motivation to break or streamline the format. When there’s not much riding on the line yea, not that many people are going to try that hard to break the format then yes it would be considered a casual format. As Legacy gets more big tourneys though there is a lot more motivation to innovate the format and it will become much more competitive.
The format couldn't stay Goblins and everything else forever, rarely is an aggro deck capable of dominating a format with such a large card pool available. Although I agree that Flash is too degenerate for the format preemptively banning other combo cards just because; they could break the format soon seems very narrow minded. The card pool is quite large and supports a large number of answers to various forms of combo, even Pre-FS Flash combo is not invincible by any stretch of the imagination although it is good and very resilient.
Obviously the answer is no, for most physical systems.
But in Legacy, the answer is very close to "yes." Players build and play the best decks availabe in the card pool, and these will be the same after the tournament. They will be different because of the passage of time, and the additional development that occurs, but I fully expect to see the very same metagame back again in June.
As I have explained several times before, this is simply the continuing slow increase in popularity and strength of combo, alongside a decline in aggro and an increasing complexity of control and aggro-control.
I think that's a bit of a stretch. As far as I can tell, Wizards has done next-to-nothing to show that they want Legacy to be a more competitive format. What'd we have, 00two GPs in 2005 and now one more in 2007? Seems to me that we'll continue to have one or two GPs a year at most, and that'll be that. Legacy simply isn't the money-maker for Wizards that Extended and Standard are.
Try not to be condescending. This answer is far from obvious to the large majority. Most people know little about physics.
I actually assume that was meant innocently. I'm not a physics expert at all, but I thought it was fairly obvious- if the Legacy metagame was a delicious stew, for instance, and Hulk-Flash was a giant heaping turd, and Mark G. in his periodic errata genocides tosses said turd into said soup, can you just fish the turd right back out and everything will be fine? Or would you be disinclined against eating further of that soup anyway?
In this case, I think exposure to fast combo is going to cause a lot more long term interest in strategies like Fish and CRET Belcher than we had seen previously, even after Flash gets the axe.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Last time I checked 1-2 GP's a year for a format is a lot more then zero GP's ever. Yes Wizard hasn't jumped in a given 4-5 big tournaments to Legacy but they are showing an increased interest in it and that is causing the format to be more competitive. For example I never play Legacy given the option, I've done well at about one Dual for Dual's in Syracuse awhile back (that I won) and other then that I usual don't care or play the format. For about the last 2 months I have been preparing for the GP by playing in tournaments and such to figure the format out and what deck I like the best. So the GP's are definitely bringing competitive people to the format, that coupled with legacy regulars honing there lists so that they will do well at the GP means the format is getting more competitive.
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