Just thinking about what non-land sources of mana there are that could come into play turn 1. I don't know all the cards so anybody who could contribute ones I've left out would be appreciated.
Dark Ritual - mana source - BBB casts for B.
Lotus Petal - artifact - Sac for one mana of any color.
Elvish Spirit Guide - creature - Discard for one green mana.
Simian Spirit Guide - creature - Discard for one red mana.
Chrome Mox - artifact - Discard a spell to get one mana of that color.
Lion's Eye Diamond - artifact - Sac and discard hand for 3 mana of any color.
Mox Diamond - artifact - Discard a land to get one mana of any color.
Creature based mana seems unlikely because of summoning sickness unless there are sac from play critters that are 1 mana that I don't know about. Paradise Mantle probably also has no valid turn 1 target to turn colorless mana into one of any color.
Ok, additions:
Mana Expanders
Tinder Wall - creature - G sac for RR.
Rite of Flame - sorcery - RR for R.
Mana Exchangers
Wild Cantor - creature - R or G sac for one mana of any color.
Land Grant - sorcery - G to go get a forest if you mulliganed no land.
Not sure about Culling the Weak and Burnt Offering due to additional sac but possibly.
Is there any spell that gives you mana for creatures or artifacts in your graveyard? Or that returns all creatures or artifacts to your hand? Obviously Enduring Renewal is not happening turn 1 in time to get Spirit Guides back.
Last edited by FoolofaTook; 05-22-2007 at 06:17 PM.
Tinder Wall is a sac' from play creature.
Rite of Flame - R for RR
Wild Cantor fixes colors and Land Grant is situational. I don't know if those count.
I guess Culling the Weak, Burnt Offering and Sacrifice might be usable in some scenarios so they're worth mentioning too. Culling the Weak is the only really playable out of the bunch though since you can sac 0-drops for mana if your deck is built in such a manner.
Oh, Cull=B, sac critter - BBBB
Burnt Offering=B, sac critter - critter's cost in R/B
Sacrifice=Offering without the red-part.
Others have been mentioned already, I think.
Songs of the Damned + 4x Circling Vultures = Teh Broken.
You could also try other player favorites like Vine Dryad + Metamorphosis. Who doesn't love first-turn molder slug/second turn Silvos?
Okay, okay.
Gemstone Caverns could work if what you wrote is not exactly what you meant.
Jeweled Amulet could also work, except that you are dismissing creatures like Orcish Lumberjack because they don't allow for degenerate 1st turn plays.
Edit: For the same reason, the Magus of the Vineyard, Eladamri's Vineyard should be discarded.
I'm assuming that Lion's Eye Diamond gets used with Madness effects? I guess instants that produced other instants would work as well.
You may also cast a spell, such as Infernal Tutor, and use LED in response without passing priority. The result is a Hellbent tutor and 3 mana in your pool. This does not pay for Infernal Tutor, though. You CANNOT use LED to cast any spells that are in your hand, as LED can only be used at instant speed and using it would make you lose the spell in hand.Originally Posted by FoolofaTook
I have a question here, instants used to be LIFO (last in first out) with all instant effects allowing for instant responses to be placed on the stack ahead of them. Has this changed? I know a lot of the timing rules changed when they got rid of interrupts and made everything instant speed.
Interrupts, thank goodness, do not exist anymore.
Now we have the stack. The stack is amazing. The stack is the greatest thing for Eternal formats since Jack Elgin.
Someone plays a spell or ability, all players (including the person who played said spell/ability) get a chance to respond. If someone does, the process repeats. If no one does, the spell resolves.
This is a grand over simplification, but I love the stack.
Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.
The order still resolves, but you need to pass priority before your opponent can respond now. You are effectively responding to your own sorcery with an instant-speed effect.
Are you unable to respond to your own instant speed effect with another instant speed effect?
No, you can put as many instant or or mana speed effects or spells on the stack as you want before you pass priority.
Priority is going to be a bitch to get down given I'm used to the old PITA way of handling interrupts and instants.
So let's say I cast a Brainstorm and retaining priority respond to it with a Mystical Tutor. My opponent can now choose to respond with a counter for either spell once I have passed priority?
Yes, this is exactly correct, though I do not recommend this play.
Never under estimate confuse-a-cat, especially in the first 3 rounds of a tourney. :)
Ok, I understand now, it's not exactly like ping-pong, it's more like pong with a magnetic paddle. Hold it as long as you like and then get ready for the return bounce when you let go.
Additionally, after each element on the stack (ability, spell, whatever) resolves, players have a chance to respond before the next one does. Solidarity is largely based on this functionality, reusing spells on stack often even multiple times once it has the mana to.
I see you've added mana exchanger.
Crop rotation also fits that bill.
If you reveal your hand then Land Grant is free.
Also, you forgot Cabal Ritual, Desperate Ritual and Seething Song.
info.ninja
Songs of the Damned
B
add B to your mana pool for each creature in your graveyard
Firebrothers.
http://www.steelvipers.org/albums/ju...m/Disagree.png
^what my sig pic would be..
You have to remove Spirit Guides from the game to get mana, or else this would actually be a broken combo. Unfortunately, you don't sacrifice Spirit Guides, so maybe you were thinking of Wild Cantor or something.
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