B/R update!

[Peter_Rotten]

Hey, all this talk about stupid-ass Pandeburst has blindsided you. Anyone remember Enchantress with Replenish? Haven't we seen some recent (but modest) success with Enchantress?

[DeathwingZERO]

That was my thoughts. Enchantress was already on the rise, and Replenish just seems to be the perfect add in. Maybe we'll see it solidifying a spot here.

And I gotta agree, I'm much happier and more looking forward to the new stuff Vintage gets to play with, we didn't get enough toys in Legacy this time around compared to them.

<3 Vise and Mind Twist. Time to go get my Beta's.

EDIT: Oh ya, and "FUCK YOU" Vintage Gift's decks. Good riddance. DRAGON 4L!!

[dre4m]

EDIT: Oh ya, and "FUCK YOU" Vintage Gift's decks. Good riddance. DRAGON 4L!!

Yeah.... about dragon.... is it faster than Vintage Flash.dec? Gogo rectorbargain, or would you rather just win with Hulk?

Flash was clearly not broken enough in Vintage.

[Carlos El Salvador]

Bloody Good show.

But don't you see what wizards is doing??
They unbanned Mind over matter and replenish because they BELONG together...

let the plotting commence... *Beginning to think of an Armastance Enchantress deck with Mind over Matter. Shudders at the pure horror*

[sammiel]

well, its nice to see some changes at least.

Big fuck you to flash and gifts, and we'll see what replenish brings.

Going to be very hard to break mind over matter, with that casting cost and the lack of tolarian academy in the format.


It's good to know I can go back to working on Tier 2 decks that could beat flash maybe 1 or 2 games out of ten.

[Di]

Yeah.... about dragon.... is it faster than Vintage Flash.dec? Gogo rectorbargain, or would you rather just win with Hulk?

Flash was clearly not broken enough in Vintage.

It really isn't. It might see restricting some time in the future, but try comparing Vintage to Legacy in this regard. In Legacy, Flash was completely degenerate because the power level was light years beyond every other deck. In Vintage, almost every single deck is pretty close in terms of power level. The sheer amount of brokenness in the format is absurd. Flash is still good, though.

[greenmage]

Flash: good, that change was necessary.
Replenish: nice, replenish allows for fun decks. Comboes with all kinds of stuff.
MOM: the casting cost is very prohibitive. Could be used with gaea's cradle or high tide.

So, yes, I agree with all the changes for legacy.

[Cait_Sith]

Flash: good, that change was necessary.
Replenish: nice, replenish allows for fun decks. Comboes with all kinds of stuff.
MOM: the casting cost is very prohibitive. Could be used with gaea's cradle or high tide.

So, yes, I agree with all the changes for legacy.

Gaea's Cradle produces Green. MoM has 2 BLUE BLUE BLUE BLUE in its cost. (I think it is one of like 5-6 cards that cost yXXXX in the entire game).

The best way to abuse MoM I can think of is to have Honden of Seeing Winds, 2 others Hondens, and MoM in your graveyard. Resolve Replenish brining them all back. Cast Obliterate. You are drawing 4 cards a turn, so keeping your opponent locked down should be simple.

[greenmage]

I know. I never said it would work in a competitive deck. I am not always thinking in kathegories of competitive and not competitive.

[LGD]

Right, but if you're resolving a Replenish then isn't it better to just win then and there with the pandeburst combo? I too think that Replenish is maybe best used in a control deck or enchantress variant, but Pandeburst might very well be viable, especially since Gifts will conveniently dump both pieces into the graveyard every single time. It is a pretty compact combo package that doesn't rely on the combat phase to win so I can see it fitting into some sort of control-combo deck as its victory condition.

[Cait_Sith]

I was more saying Cradle Cannot cast MoM. Only Turbo Stasis and Relic Orb has the power to really abuse MoM (and cast the dang thing, but even then it is insanely difficult. 6 in a color without good mana accel)

PandeBurst could work, but getting both cards in the... actually never mind. I already know EXACTLY how to do this.

[HPC]

MoM AND Replenish is unbanned?? Finally I can make a combo kill using a Quicksilver Dagger for just 3UUUUUR! Replenish just makes the combo that much easier and resilliant! </sarcasm>

[scrumdogg]

Why would you ever cast MoMa when you have Replenish to cheat it into play? And y'all seem to be forgetting Serra's Sanctum, which also produces a metric fuckton of mana in the right deck (like, say, an Enchantress build....) & could be some good with both Replenish & MoMa.

Thank you Wizards for getting rid of Flash

Fuck you Wizards for having to do so (again) in the first place You couldn't have waited until 10th Ed. this summer to remove the power level errata for Flash? Of course not........

Vintage almost looks appealing now......

[Horror Business]

When the page loaded up and I saw a big X over Flash I got a little excited
I'm glad Aaron broached the topic of Land Tax actually proving he and others were paying attention to the Legacy community since it seemed everyone and their mother were flapping their e-mouths about it. I even spent last night playtesting it. Replenish seems like it could find a place in a deck somewhere and I voted for it in the poll.

[umbowta]

I love the changes! Flash was stupid good and can go away now. I could give a shit less about Mind Over Matter coming back because I hate it and will never play it. Replenish is cool for sure. I was really close to picking up a playset off Cardshark last night but decided to sleep on it. Replenish is just so damned good I want to rebuild my enchantress deck.

I really like the unrestrictions in Vintage. I might just have to get into some 10 proxy events in the near future...my inner noob just can't wait to have four Black Vises in a deck again. It's been so long.

My hope is that some of those cards might be allowed back into the Legacy pool after a while. Black Vise, Mind Twist, and Voltaic Key could prove to be at a reasonable power level but not Gush. If gush were legal in Legacy Miracle Gro and GAT would be insane.

[Hoojo]

There was a point Aaron made that I'd like to bring up and see if anyone agrees. He mentioned that not doing an emergency banning and allowing for a GP:Flash raised popularity for Legacy, kind of a controversy ploy. Do you think that could have been part of the plan? Intriguing, but its probably not worth discussing.

[Cait_Sith]

Do you think that could have been part of the plan? Intriguing, but its probably not worth discussing.

Legacy still generates money for Wizards. Not as much as Standard or Extended, but it still generates some. Making a move where you destroy a metagame in favor of a more polarized one has shown to be very bad for business, so I doubt they intentionally did this.

[Atwa]

There was a point Aaron made that I'd like to bring up and see if anyone agrees. He mentioned that not doing an emergency banning and allowing for a GP:Flash raised popularity for Legacy, kind of a controversy ploy. Do you think that could have been part of the plan? Intriguing, but its probably not worth discussing.

They might not have done it on purpose, but I guess it is one of the results.

The regular Legacy players will keep on playing (although it really sucked for those of us testing for over a year), but the buzz about 'this unbeatable combodeck' might have resulted in more people participating in the GP, people who might even stick after Flash is banned.

I'm not sure though, but I know a lot of people have signed up an accound during the days of the GP, if they stick around, GP: Flash might have even been a succes for the format.

[C.P.]

And y'all seem to be forgetting Serra's Sanctum, which also produces a metric fuckton of mana in the right deck (like, say, an Enchantress build....) & could be some good with both Replenish & MoMa.

MoMa cost UUUU, even with sanctum backup. It's not easily hardcasted. About Replenish + MoMa, I think there are better things to do with Replenish.

[Cait_Sith]

MoMa cost UUUU, even with sanctum backup. It's not easily hardcasted. About Replenish + MoMa, I think there are better things to do with Replenish.

Like win the game with PandeBurst or restore your massive board position with Enchantress.