Although the leyline rapes this deck I don't think it will be played much if at all so I wouldn't be worried.
It was partly a joke. While the card indeed hates this deck, sometimes it's beneficial. For example, the kill Invigorate + double berserk only has to deal 20 damage instead of 23 if the opponent has the leyline, and the deck already packs 4 reverent silence and 2 krosan grip.
It doesn't worry me, but better not say it loud or WotC will print another hoser that is even more powerful, heh.
Fun deck! And if you have Berserks and goyfs it can be really cheap.
3 Thoughtseize
3 Berserk
2 Tarmogoyf
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bayou
How well would it do without Thoughtseizes SB, and without Berserks? I don't know if I can easily get ahold of ethier of those and without those 2, and having the other 14 listed above this deck costs less then 100 bucks.
Although the one small meaningless change I would make is
-4 Verdant Catacombs
+4 Wooded Foothills, since I would actually have those. . .even though I need to buy my Zendikar fetches.
You need berserks they are a core part of the combo so I would say don't try to build this deck without berserks which are only about 18-20 anyway so they shouldn't be too hard to get via trades.
You can substitute Thoughtseize for any other discard spell without losing too much. I just play Thoughtseize because I already have them, a friend plays instead Cabal Therapy, but he also plays more lands and Abyssal Persecutor, so he can sacrifice Cutters, extra quirion and persecutor if needed.
Berserk is very important if you want the deck to play like a Stompy, because if the deck is not as consistently fast as you can, the deck will play poorly. Another friend took them out because he doesn't like that chalice of the void disables them, and prefers to focus on cards that make CotV better.
Note however, that my build currently lacks 2 pump spells that made berserk much better and has CotV that make them a bit worse, I have to find a way to fix that in the next version of the deck. I also need to find another beater because Goyf is not very good in this deck. Maybe I should try Vampire Hounds? Optimizing decklists is an arduous task.
Without reading the entire thread yet, have you thought of Vengevine instead of goyf?
Fuels Wild Mongrel, and if your combo fizzles out or they block the death blow, can result in some fun beaters next turn.
actually i think thats not that bad of an idea, its in fact a quite funny one, but it requires you to play mongrel at least as a 4 of and needs cutters, and i was usually underwhelmed by mongrel, because he can not allways deal lethal in one blow
i right now am using manaplasma instead of goyf, even if i have goyf, the manaplasmas deal way more damage if you try to combo
Totally scrapping the idea of Rain of Gore. Its wording only affects cards giving life to its controller. Well, that's one card I'll not have to test anymore.
Now you just splash Blue and get Donate!
i am right now re-thinking the vengevine - thing, actually it would fit into the deck very well, and it would give me a reason to play mongrel again, only thing is that the decklists would have to be adjusted
if we would go for vengevine we would need more creatures which do not cost us any mana, or at least not much, maybe splashing blue for cloud of fearies, or using a few madness creatures, like rootwalla, or maybe using the opponent as well to get vengevine into play, by playing low-cost-flash-creatures
i don't know, maybe you got better ideas than me
just wanted to post this hear so everybody can think about it, and maybe post their conclusions on the thing here
examples i thought about
Briarhorn
cloud of fearies
basking rootwalla
big game hunter (only working with mongrel, as does vengevine)
these are probably the best creatures suited if anyone wants to try vengevine (IMO briarhorn and big game hunter are the most promising ones)
After M11 we could test that idea with Fauna Shaman, as it searchs for free creatures and Kavu Predator and could be the second discard outlet for Vengevine. I'll test Fauna Shaman anyways, as it looks promising.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
T1: Land, Petal. Play Mongrel. Discard Vengevine to pump. Madness Rootwalla into play, return Vengevine & swing for 4.
T2: Land, Pump Rootwalla & swing for 9+ Discard puts opponent down to like 5-7 life.
Man, if there was only a way to start every game like that lol. I dunno how these kinda plays fit into the consistency of the deck though.
May your suffering equal your weakness--Ihsan's Shade
i think it would fit fine, but we could never play vengevine as a 4-off because to make it effective we need mongrel and a creature that does not cost us anything, so these plays will not happen that often, but maybe this could be the way to a new madness deck, actually the BG shell would fit well for a madness deck i think
the problem if we want to fit vengevine into the cure is what to cut for the vengevines and the extra low-cost-creatures
I've been testing lately Strength of Lunacy as a black Giant Growth that also gives extra protection from Swords to Plowshares, is great with Wild Mongrel and is not shutted down by Chalice of the Void at 1. While is not as explosive as Might of Old Krosa, I liked the added benefits over Vines of Vastwood in the current test build. The problem is that I'd like to find another discard outlet besides Mongrel that is also cheap and works for auras (Fauna Shaman, for example, only works with creatures).
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
i was thinking of adding brairhorn to my list instead of might of old krosa, but that is because i am playing manaplasma, briarhorn are awesome with manaplasma
a discard outlet for noncreature cards would be for example drekavac and thats the only creature i can find right now that can at least a bit support our stompy-strategy
problem with him is that you can discard only noncreature cards, so he sucks as well
but i have to say i like the idea of strength of lunacy, it gives us a bit more consistency, and can help to get our beater through the opponents defense
Cold_Eyed Selkie I like this idea alot. Curious as to dr jones take on it. Also i dont know if this has been said but its late and i could only read like pages 1 and 6-11 so just flame me if im repeating something. If that wurm that you sugested with vanishing is good enough why not like ground breaker baggart ram gang Talara's Battalion?
Ground Breaker, Boggart Ram Gang, etc are too slow. At that stage in the game this deck needs to be delivering the final blow or setting up to do so. Cold-Eyed Selkie on the other hand could provide some mid, late game gas if need be.Originally Posted by boxibrown
what about autumn's veil that has got to take composts spot on the board right?
What about the elf battalon? it seems like a good finisher and also has trample aready so its a pretty big body and can be played right after a cutter also she seems pretty nuts with vengivine but i think that ruins the core of this deck.
For a creature to qualify in this deck as a beater, it has to:
a) either achieve 5 power by itself
b) be big enough in the early game to pass through a 3/4 Tarmogoyf and survive
Autumn's Veil is bad with the mana base I run, because you can tap out one turn to cast a spell that wins you the game against certain decks (compost, choke, etc.), but you cannot leave one mana open every turn. Vines of Vastwood are much better because they double as pump, and yet they don't work well with Chalice of the Void, which is the absolute best card I found to protect yourself from swords, discard, counters, combo, etc.
I wrote a nice list with all card choices available for each slot in the deck, but the light went out in my house and I lost it. For card draw I found that in addition to Cold-eyed selkie, there's sygg, river cutthroat. Also, maybe I should try Glimpse of Nature, it might work with the free creatures.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
Avatar of Discord
Arrogant Bloodlord
Ashenmoor Gouger
Death's Shadow
Fallow Wurm
Flesh Reaver
Giant Solifuge
Hunted Wumpus
Iwamori of the Open Fist
I was doing a creature seach and these are what i came up with tell me if you think any of these might be work able. I really dont like goyf every time i play him i find myself wishing that he was better utilized early game. Even when i draw him later he has no evasion to or trample to get through defenses. Im just trying to find options.
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