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Thread: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

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    [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn (Snow Parfait)

    ETA: I'm leaving the rest of the post alone, but I'm going to keep the most up-to-date list on the top of the first page.


    4 Scrying Sheets
    18 Snow-Covered Plains
    2 Kor Haven

    1 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Path to Exile
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Oblivion Ring
    3 Wrath of God
    1 Humility
    1 Faith's Fetters
    1 Sacred Mesa
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Isochron Scepter
    4 Orim's Chant
    3 Abeyance
    2 Grindstone
    2 Painter's Servant

    SB:
    3 Ray of Distortion
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Karmic Justice
    1 Sacred Ground
    4 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Karakas
    1 Genju of the Fields
    1 Runed Halo


    Previous ETA:

    18x Snow-Covered Plains
    4x Scrying Sheets

    2x Grindstone
    2x Painter's Servant
    3x Eternal Dragon
    1x Sacred Mesa

    3x Enlightened Tutor
    4x Sensei's Divining Top

    3x Wrath of God
    3x Runed Halo
    3x Oblivion Ring
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    1x Moat

    4x Orim's Chant
    3x Abeyance
    2x Isochron Scepter

    SB:
    3x Tormod's Crypt
    1x Relic of Progenitus
    3x Ray of Distortion
    2x Sacred Ground
    2x Story Circle
    1x Sacred Mesa
    2x Decree of Justice
    1x Rule of Law

    Now return you to the original post.

    [/ETA]

    I actually build a metric fuckton of decks that never see the light of day. I'll proxy them up on MWS, maybe play a few games on MWS, then get bored and scrap them. Any number of things can inspire a deck. Sometimes it's actually cards, or any given one card I feel like playing at the moment. Sometimes the deck is actually top-down; say, for instance, that someone makes an account on the Source with a handle referencing a damnably catchy Bob Dylan song I hadn't even thought about in years. I might get said tune stuck in my head for a week, and decide that I'd like to build a deck with that name. Quinn's an eskimo, so obviously it needs to be a Snow deck.

    Usually these decks get scrapped, but every one in a hundred actually turns out to actually be really fucking impressive. This is one of those.

    18x Snow-Covered Plains
    4x Scrying Sheets

    Kill Conditions:
    2x Eternal Dragon
    2x Decree of Justice
    3x Adarkar Valkyrie
    1x Sacred Mesa

    Creature Kill:
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    1x Condemn
    3x Wing Shards
    3x Wrath of God

    Anti-Combo:
    4x Orim's Chant
    3x Abeyance

    Tutoring/Manipulation:
    3x Sensei's Divining Top
    3x Enlightened Tutor

    Tutor Targets:
    2x Isochron Scepter
    1x Powder Keg
    1x Seal of Cleansing
    1x Moat
    1x Story Circle


    SB:

    2x Tormod's Crypt
    1x Trinisphere
    1x Rule of Law
    1x Chalice of the Void
    1x Sacred Ground
    1x Hannah's Custody
    1x Karmic Justice
    1x Seal of Cleansing
    1x Aura of Silence
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Humility
    1x Thunderstaff
    1x Grindstone
    1x Mindslaver


    Actually writing this out on a decksheet would be such a pain. Anyway;


    Snow Engine- 25 Snow cards allow you to use Scrying Sheets blind fairly often EoT just to draw a land, keeping up your mana production, while digging you deeper towards the business cards. With Top out, it goes from decent to amazing, allowing you to rapidly dig through and stack your deck. Top also works with E. Tutor and Eternal Dragon for shuffle effects. Tutor is an important part of this deck, as all the one ofs might've made obvious. You can tutor for early answers to various decks in Seal, Powder Keg, and Isochron Scepter (sticking an Orim's Chant on it to lock them mostly out of the game, an StP just to kill all their creatures, or even an Abeyance to keep them off of random cards while drawing more cards yoursself), or get a late game powerhouse in Sacred Mesa, Story Circle, or Moat. With a different draw engine than Rabid Wombat, there's a lot more room for actual business spells; in addition to plenty of creature removal, you have cards that actually stop non-attacking decks; Terrageddon or Armageddon Stax or anything with Wildfire or Devastating Dreams was a nightmare matchup for Wombat, but with Scepter-Chant lock, you can actually shut them completely out of the game before they even get their land-wipes online; Scepter-Chant's good against pretty much everything, actually.

    The sideboard is full of one ofs, although lots of them serve dual functions. Karmic Justice can supplement either Sacred Ground against the land-wipe strategies, or Hannah's Custody against Naturalizes; Trinisphere, Rule of Law, and Chalice are all pretty good against combo, and Thunderstaff is, too, actually (in addition to comboing with DoJ). Humility and Thunderstaff can lock out aggro completely, and Humility's good against creature-based combo and most aggro. Grindstone and Mindslaver are bombs in the tedious control-mirror. And Aura and Seal are just for the extra disenchant effects, when you want them- say, against Stax or Raffinity or Fairy Stompy.

    My testing results so far, mostly preboard;


    CRET Belcher: 1:1. This is better than I had expected. The scariest thing is first turn Belcher with LED, but you can Tutor for (or just draw) Seal of Cleansing and Powder Keg to shut down tokens/Charbelcher, or Orim's Chant in response to a Desperate Ritual. Or you can cast Orim's Chant with kicker to fog a turn while you get to Wrath mana. About half of the time, that's insufficient, but post-board it should also get noticeably better with Pithing Needle, Chalice, and Seal of Cleansing/Rule of Law, etc. in place of StP and Wing Shards.

    Goblins: 5:2. This is about what you'd expect. You have most of the tools Wombat has against Goblins; while there's no lifegain (although I'm pondering an Ivory Tower in the board), and only one Rune, you also have Moat and Scepter-Chant, to which they have no real answer most of the time. Humility and Thunderstaff are strong sideboard options here.

    Threshold: 3:2. It depends a great deal on what color you're playing against; white and black are easier game 1 than Red, which can more often burn you out if you get too low. This matchup isn't a cakewalk at all; you have to respect the power of Mongoose and Tarmogoyf backed up by Force and Daze. If they don't draw too many counters, however, you should be able to keep their board clear and resolve some bombs, either defensive in Story Circle and Moat and Scepter, or simply in Valkyrie/Eternal Dragon form.

    Red Death: 2:1. Sensei's Divining Top and Enlightened Tutor are fucking amazing here. Dark Ritual is their scariest card, as they can sometimes outrace you, and burn can take you out if you stabilize at too low life, but generally your ability to play from the top and kill all the threats they produce wins you the game.

    RGBSA: 2:5. Genesis and Anger are really bad for you, especially with discard/Wish backup. Your best bet here is to try and get Scepter-Chant online as soon as possible. Humility and Pithing Needle and Crypts make this a little bit better postboard.

    Solidarity: 1:Graham's Number. I don't think it's actually possible to win this matchup against a competent opponent unless they have a heart attack midway through the round.


    Edit:

    Most Recent List:

    18x Snow-Covered Plains
    4x Scrying Sheets

    2x Eternal Dragon
    2x Painter's Servant
    2x Grindstone
    1x Sacred Mesa

    4x Sensei's Divining Top
    3x Enlightened Tutor
    1x Argivian Find

    4x Swords to Plowshares
    3x Runed Halo
    3x Oblivion Ring
    3x Wrath of God
    1x Moat

    4x Orim's Chant
    3x Abeyance
    2x Isochron Scepter

    Sb:
    2x Tormod's Crypt
    2x Argivian Find
    1x Grindstone
    1x Painter's Servant
    1x Isochron Scepter
    1x Sacred Ground
    1x Seal of Cleansing
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Aura of Silence
    1x Powder Keg
    1x Jester's Cap
    1x Defense Grid
    1x Ghostly Prison
    Last edited by TheInfamousBearAssassin; 04-26-2010 at 07:50 PM.
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  2. #2

    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Why not playing some fetchlends tu tune SdT
    “Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    Why not playing some fetchlends tu tune SdT
    Fetchlands do not have the snow type. Bad synergy with Scrying Sheets, which is stronger with Top.
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Quote Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu View Post
    Why not playing some fetchlends tu tune SdT
    Running Fetchlands would mean that the Scrying Sheets engine doesn't work anymore.

    I like this deck, it has much of the power Wombat had and a nice drawing engine. With Solidarity not being one of the major parts of the metagame anymore, the combo matchup should become at least winnable since decks like Belcher can be more easily disrupted with Chant and Abeyance.
    Sometimes you have to read between the minds.

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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    I've got fond memories of playing Frigid Wombat, at least before I got bored of 30-minute games. The deck's close enough that IMO you could have just posted it in the Wombat thread, but that's not worth discussing.

    Major notes:

    1) Adarkar Valkyrie was always terrible to me. Being snow doesn't make up for paying 6 mana for a pumped Serra Avenger with a rarely-relevant ability. Exalted Angel wins the game when you're losing, Adarkar Valkyrie wins the game when you're winning.
    2) Clean up the wannabe-wishboard. Karmic Justice is only played in Enchantress, and is much worse than Sacred Ground. Hannah's Custody is crap even in Stax. Mindslaver is worthless. Aura of Silence is no Serenity. Rule of Law does basically the same thing as Trinisphere. Grindstone is cool, but worse than the Future Sight Millstone (whatever it's called). Play some Spheres of Resistance.
    3) Lands: +1 Urza's Factory, +1 Ancient Den, +1/2 Mouth of Ronom
    4) Possible "man plan" in the SB? If you maindeck Angels and bring in Moms, Avengers, and maybe some Knights...
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    I actually found the ability to be quite useful in the Threshold matchup. 4 life a turn often doesn't counteract Tarmogoyf beats, but stealing a Tarmogoyf after a Wing Shards or Wrath can be completely game-swinging.
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    - Tom Lehrer

  7. #7

    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    I suppose the obvious question should be asked. What makes this deck better than a straightforward port of extended No-Stick?

  8. #8
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerryl View Post
    I suppose the obvious question should be asked. What makes this deck better than a straightforward port of extended No-Stick?
    Obvious answer: The better manabase and a landbased drawengine. You'll never lose to colorscrew with this deck and unless your opponent has Wastelands he can't counter your drawengine. Of course this deck has other weaknesses that arise with this approach.
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerryl View Post
    I suppose the obvious question should be asked. What makes this deck better than a straightforward port of extended No-Stick?
    It can win games where it doesn't get Scepter-Chant online and/or the opponent runs Disenchant or Krosan Grip.

    Nihil: What would you recommend as an alternate sideboard? What would yours look like?
    "I am sure that we all agree that we ought to love one another, and I know that there are people in the world who feel no love for their fellow man, and let me tell you, I hate people like that."

    - Tom Lehrer

  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Coming from a standard players POV, if you need lifegain martyr of sands could do that. Obviously as a board card, but he can throw his body into an attacker and gain 15 life.

  11. #11
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Thank god someone is abusing E. tutor. I've been trying and failing for a few weeks now.

    I know you can't get too cute with the mana base, but have you ever felt the need for an Ancient Den as a fetchable one of?

    Edit: Nihil beat me to it.

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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    If you haven't already given up on the Solidarity matchup you could try fitting 3 more Rule of Laws in the board. As well how about the janky "Wall of Hope" in the board vs Aggro?

    Your numbers vs CRET Belcher seem optimistic. I would be interested in the results of futher testing against the deck.

    I think a few of the creature choices, mainly so many Valkyries are sub-par. If I feel up to it I will search the Gatherer for creatures and suggest a few.

    I really like the deck and I think that with some work it could become competitive.
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  13. #13
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Did you try that Snow-Artifact-mana card for 2 mana? Heart of Something? I use 3-4 Mind Stones in Wombat and I find them critical to ramp up the mana curve to 4cc on turn 3. Is it not worth it to tap out on turn 2?

    Speaking of 4cc have you tried Gerrard's Wisdom? Seems like your hand would be full of cards with the Snow Engine. I use Wisdom in Wombat to Time Stretch against aggro, and its pretty rediculous against decks with a slow clock. Also, it can make a turn 3 Tendrils win much harder for your opponent if you can accelerate into it.

    I think you could stand to be a little (a lot) less zealous with the Tutor Board. Why Story Circle over Rune of/Circle of Protection? I think Warmth would be a good target for the burn MU.

    EDIT: Coldsteel Heart
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Quote Originally Posted by revenge_inc View Post
    If you haven't already given up on the Solidarity matchup you could try fitting 3 more Rule of Laws in the board.
    I think if he did that it would kind of be like trying to put out a forest fire with a super soaker. More than a little bit of wishful thinking, and definitely a waste of board space I would think.
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  15. #15
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    In the SB is there a reason we are running Thunderstaff rather than Caltrops...preventing is nice, but if we can kill them why not? Only reason I could think of was to pump decree tokens for a faster kill or make eternal dragon/valkyrie trade with enforcers. It just seems that it would be more effective without the need for humility, but I'm the creator of the deck so I would like your input.

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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    I like the MD, but I think the SB could be changed. I would run something like:

    1x Humility
    4x Chalice
    2x Rule of Law
    2x Crypt
    1x Trinisphere
    2x Needle
    1x Sacred Ground
    1x Seal of Cleansing
    1x Thunderstaff

    I think the Chalice count needs to be upped for combo, and that things like Mindslaver and Millstone aren't all that hot.
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  17. #17
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    I actually found the ability to be quite useful in the Threshold matchup. 4 life a turn often doesn't counteract Tarmogoyf beats, but stealing a Tarmogoyf after a Wing Shards or Wrath can be completely game-swinging.
    I'd be hard-pressed to find a better example of win-more

    Anyway, my tweaked list:

    // Lands
    15 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
    2 [CS] Mouth of Ronom
    4 [CS] Scrying Sheets
    1 [DS] Darksteel Citadel

    // Win conditions
    3 [ON] Exalted Angel
    2 [SC] Eternal Dragon
    2 [SC] Decree of Justice
    1 [MI] Sacred Mesa

    // Creature control
    4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
    2 [DIS] Condemn
    2 [SC] Wing Shards
    3 [PR] Wrath of God
    1 [9E] Story Circle
    1 [LG] Moat

    // Stall or lock
    4 [PS] Orim's Chant
    3 [OV] Abeyance

    // Search
    3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor

    // Toolbox
    2 [MR] Isochron Scepter
    1 [UD] Powder Keg
    1 [FNM] Seal of Cleansing

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
    SB: 3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
    SB: 2 [UD] Powder Keg
    SB: 1 [TE] Humility
    SB: 1 [7E] Sacred Ground
    SB: 1 [WL] Serenity
    SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 1 [TE] Orim's Prayer
    SB: 1 [TSP] Stuffy Doll

    Changes:

    +1 Condemn, -1 Wing Shards: Unless you're playing against Goblins (the only deck that will give you storm before attacking), Wing Shards is a crappy Edict until turn 4 at best. In my book, that means it's a 2-of, not a 3-of. With a lot of Goblins in the meta, it can deserve the third slot.

    Exalted Angel over Valkyrie: Already explained.

    Toolbox lands: Combined with dropping the Valkyrie, this brings the snow count down to 21; considering that Scrying at blind doesn't happen that often (you'll usually draw either a Tutor or a Top, and if you have neither, chances are your hand contains removal or Angels), I find that an acceptable price. I went with Darksteel Citadel over Ancient Den, since it's immune to Wasteland (which is critical when you're Tutoring for a land). Urza's Factory was skipped since the deck already has four separate win conditions, and Extirpate-style hate isn't expected in Game 1.

    Sideboard: Completely reworked.
    4 Spheres of Resistance give you a shot vs. combo, and going to 3 Powder Kegs makes Goblin tokens much less scary - but it is also useful against Landstill manlands and the like.
    Jotun Grunt is graveyard removal that doubles as a solid beater; works well as a generic spot-filler.
    Serenity owns Stax and Enchantress (protect it with Chant/Abeyance against the latter!). At first I was worried about it blowing up Sacred Ground, but then I realized that if you have Sacred Ground in play against Stax, there's no reason to want to blow up the board.
    Orim's Prayer replaces Thunderstaff; the Staff's ability is irrelevant since you'll side out Decree and Mesa in those matchups, and an enchantment is generally harder to remove for Burning Wish Combo.
    I cut the Millstone wannabe (although my pick for that slot, if any, would be Tower of Murmurs), because the only deck against which I'd rather have that than Stuffy Doll is Life.dec. The Doll performs admirably against large, non-evasive beaters (Tarmogoyf, I'm looking at you).
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  18. #18
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    While I'm not 100% sold on Adarkar Valkyrie, Exalted Angel is little better. The spirit link isn't significantly better than Vigilance + creature stealing, and I never want to morph her. And often not costing a card off of sheets pushes Adarkar significantly over. If I was to drop her at all, it would be for +1 DoJ, +1 Dragon, and +1 Scepter.

    Combo: I already have a shot versus combo. The new combo doesn't care about Sphere because it's usually going off before Sphere hits. I'd rather run Pithing Needles or more Ghostly Prisons or Powder Kegs to deal with Goblins (Ghostly Prison being good against all kinds of Goblins). Combo simply works differently than it used to. It's less vulnerable to slow stax effects, at it doesn't wait to get a few extra cards and mana drops before going off; but it is more vulnerable to things that deal with 1/1 hordes.

    I don't need Wing Shards before turn 4 against Gro/Fish variants, and Goblins feeds it if they're going to kill me before it hits. Considering that StP + Wing Shards is almost always a Wrath at instant speed, I don't think your argument for cutting the number of Wing Shards is strong enough. I really don't want to lose to Nimble Mongoose simply because I can't find an answer. I think 5 StPs is enough here.

    I'm definitely interested in Mouth of Ronom, but I'm worried that 15 White sources is too few. I have found myself wishing I could tutor for mana, and Darksteel Citadel is also a bonus against Armageddon, so I'm definitely interested in running that card. I might try one Mouth for a bit.

    Stuffy Doll eats it to StP in the Landstill matchup, which Grindstone does not. Although the thought of running Tower of Murmurs instead had occurred to me, given how slow that matchup is.

    I had been running 2x Crypt for the ability to play it twice, which I found quite useful. I wasn't running Jotun Grunt though. But in my experience, while Jotun Grunt can be a good beater, he's actually really shitty graveyard hate against anything but Threshold.

    The argument about Orim's Prayer being harder to remove for Belcher than Thunderstaff is actually pretty decent. But at that point I think I'd rather just run Ghostly Prison and be able to bring it in against Vial-Goblins.

    Right now I'm looking at something like this:

    16x Snow-Covered Plains
    4x Scrying Sheets
    1x Mouth of Ronom
    1x Darksteel Citadel

    2x Decree of Justice
    2x Eternal Dragon
    3x Adarkar Valkyrie (or +1 DoJ, +1 E Dragon, +1 Scepter)
    1x Sacred Mesa

    3x Enlightened Tutor
    3x Sensei's Divining Top

    4x Orim's Chant
    3x Abeyance

    4x StP
    1x Condemn
    3x Wing Shards
    3x Wrath of God

    2x Isochron Scepter
    1x Powder Keg
    1x Seal of Cleansing
    1x Story Circle
    1x Moat

    sb:
    3x Pithing Needle
    3x Ghostly Prison
    1x Seal of Cleansing
    1x Aura of Silence
    1x Powder Keg
    2x Tormod's Crypt
    1x Humility
    1x Sacred Ground
    1x Tower of Murmurs
    1x Ivory Mask
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  19. #19

    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Wow, I'm touched. And I even like the deck. Snow is too cool.

  20. #20
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    You may want Jotun Grunt in the Valkyre slot. Valkyre is a strong finisher and has snow synergy while Grunt is a solid creature and his ability can work like Gaea's Blessing in Helldozerdeck or Irish Wombat and recycle your threats and solutions. Just see him as a 5-mana creature that is playable as a 2-mana-wall against Aggro decks.


    see the matchups you tested:

    Belcher: both are not important

    Goblins: Grunt is a fast blocker when in trouble, even though he is a worse finisher here; again both are about the same.

    Threshold: Grunt is pure awesomeness, Valkyre is way too slow; Grunt is a million times superior

    Red Death: 2 Mana and he stops every creature they have and they can't kill it without a 2-1 for you (or a 1-1 / 0-1 against a Shade and they can't play Disruption that turn and they need to have a lot of Black mana). Valykre is unplayable unless you have already won; again Grunt is way superior

    RGb/SA: The only matchup in which Valkyre is clearly stronger.

    Solidarity: It weakens their Flash of Insight. Furthermore it can be played and you can still leave Mana open for Chant and Abeyance.

    Furthermore Grunt can randomly beat decks like Ichorid, Loam or similar Yard based decks.

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