They could try this. I've never seen it work. They can't hardlock me out, so they really do have to win fast.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
i have no problems with counterbalance in my version right now.
decree is normally a big problem for decks running counter balance (a advantage also of the cheaper version posted by TheInfamousBearAssasin)
oblivion ring also helps alot, cause they dont have that much cards with 3.
oh and return to dust out of the sb and aura of silence ... just make counterbalance nearlly irrelevant
Yeah. SB usually knocks out the CB/Counterbalance problem. Even G1, they need that + a gassy hand to win, usually. Otherwise they still pretty much bite it to Dragon +3/4 cc removal. It really helps if you land the Top first, too; which you can usually do against CB. And while Chalice can come down earlier, it doesn't shut down nearly as much.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
@TheInfamousBearAssassin
Why do you have 2 or 3 Sacred Mesa on your SB list ? What or when do you use it and what cards do you board out for it
Thanks
Just a few tweaks i've made in my build that might help battle tokens and chalice of the void i run 1 powder keg
Against decks that I side out the combo for. Also, the control mirror.Originally Posted by _erbs_
DoJ might be better there, but Mesa is tutorable. It's a tough call. Maybe +1 Mesa, +2 DoJs?
What do you cut for it?Just a few tweaks i've made in my build that might help battle tokens and chalice of the void i run 1 powder keg
eta:
Oh, update:
Ray of Distortion > Return to Dust in the board.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
i think the decree ist better most times at the moment after sideboarding im runnig 3 decrees and 2 mesas in total i think thats a good number of win conditions
i normally even let the combo in the deck vs aggro controll but i take out the tutor because the card disadvantage can be to hard vs some decks
i would cut 1 wrath of god for the powder keg ... like i said 15 posts ago
i like ray of distortion because normally you won't find 2 targets for return to dust at once ... except vs dragonstompy or something like that ...
and i still cant say how important the remove aspect of return to dust is...
what are the MU of Quinn now?
Because I tested this deck a few days ago and i saw that suffice only a pernicius deed for lost a game but i would like to play Quinn in a local tournament next week and i haven't a lot of time for test it.
I was testing this list:
// Lands
18 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
4 [CS] Scrying Sheets
// Creatures
2 [SC] Eternal Dragon
2 [SHM] Painter's Servant
// Spells
2 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
2 [MR] Isochron Scepter
2 [TE] Grindstone
2 [SHM] Runed Halo
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [TSB] Sacred Mesa
3 [WL] Abeyance
1 [LG] Moat
3 [10E] Wrath of God
2 [SC] Wing Shards
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
It's ok?
edit:sry for my bad engl. ç_ç
Ray of Distortion also makes that Force they're saving to protect Chalice or Counterbalance a lot less powerful. I can't see where the RfG aspect is going to be good; maybe against recurring EE, but there it doesn't work because they sac in response.
My current experience with matchups, plus how confident I am about that assesment, i.e. how much I've tested it;
Fairy Stompy is slightly favored. Chalice is the biggest threat here; followed by equipment. Sideboard makes this matchup much better. You can still lose to the nuts very easily, though.
Control-Thresh is heavily favored, barring losses to Counterbalance redressed through sideboard.
Team America is heavily favored. This matchup is sort of like an exhilirating roller coaster ride; your life total plunges down as you race to lock them out of the game, but they almost never manage to actually finish you off, if you're playing competently.
Dreadstill; Haven't tested enough to say.
Canadian Thresh/Swans Thresh: Painful matchups. Nimble Mongoose can be pain in the ass. If they're running red burn or Psi Blast, they can often burn you out even after you've stabilized the board. Try to win fast. Board in Crypts.
GoyfSligh: Ukelele no good. Scepter-Chant lock early to lock out their access to some of the burn. Story Circle is key. Story Circle is on red. Story Circle is always on red. Not a fun matchup, but I'm not sure how bad it actually is in percentages. Grip's a pain.
Landstill: This often comes down to simple playskill. Strategy of the Void is to be followed. Draw their counters to the wrong targets, then land a Moat or the combo. Side out the Scepters.
MUC: Pretty much the same as above. Both matchups favor you at least slightly simply because you can win faster. You're able to win a game before turn ten, which they pretty much aren't. It's easy for you to win two games in a round here, where they struggle to do so in time. Also, this is where that energy you've saved by winning early starts to pay off; you're less likely to make mistakes in the sixth and seventh round.
ANT/Storm Combo: You run seven Chant effects and Runed Halo maindeck. I haven't had too much problem with this matchup. Board out StP and O-Ring, bring in graveyard removal, Rule of Law, extra kill conditions. Chant in response to Chant. This is a good matchup.
Solidarity: You eat shit and die.
Ichorid: Not as bad as you would think. Scepter-Chant and Moat work, and they can't do much to react to your win. But speed can be an issue. Bring in Crypts/Relic.
Survival: G1 isn't too bad, since they have no maindeck answers to Scepter-Chant. After they bring in the Grips, things get much hairier, with discard, fast creatures, and recursion hitting you from multiple angles. This is a matchup where you really want to go Chant-Servant-Grindstone-Activate as soon as possible, because you'll lose if things drag out.
Loam-Aggro: Devastating Dreams and Chalice make this matchup difficult. The good news is that nothing else is super relevant, if you can get around those two. Board in Sacred Ground, board out the combo. This was already a painful matchup before the motherfuckers started running 4x Chalice main...
@Bracco:
I haven't been happy with Wing Shards in this deck, although I do have a fondness for the card. I would cut the Wing Shards for +1 O Ring and + 1 Runed Halo.
I also would rather run the 3rd Eternal Dragon over Pithing Needle, but that's your meta call.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
I have been toying with this deck for a while and I will tell you it is a hell of a lot of fun to play. It takes me back to Rifter, and Angel stax.
Curious as to what you would board in/out for a couple matchups.
1- CounterSlivers
2- TES (same as ANT?)
3- Elf combo
Thanks in advance.
If you lose to CounterSlivers, it will be because they got the perfectly curved hand and had the right counters at all the right times to stop your removal. The best plan against MeatHooks is to shuffle thoroughly, aka, the Roopey strategem.
That being said, I'm not sure what I would side out in that matchup. Maybe Moat for the second Sacred Mesa.
TES: Same as ANT. I'd side out O-Ring for Ray of Distortion, the StPs for Rule of Law, 1 Relic, 1 Crypt, and 1 Sacred Mesa.
Elf Combo: I haven't the slightest clue. I don't know how this deck plays. I'd probably bring in Story Circle. Chant and Wrath seem big here. I might board out the combo and Scepters, anticipating Grip.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
has anyone thought of hoofprints of the stag as a win condition? it's especially good with sensei's divining top.
I want a banana this big!
I've tried in a monowhite to use hoofprints before, granted it was in a version without top (Though otherwise close to this deck without the snow engine). However, I felt that it was just worse than sacred mesa. It is nice that you can lay it down earlier, but it doesn't win you the game as fast later, which is generally what you want to go for. Mesa can also pump out blockers to stall for a little bit too. In addition, it makes their removal better, since taking out a token from hoofprints slows you down more. However, now that I think about it a little more top really speeds hoofprints up. In fact, two of them lets you get a lot of counters quickly.
That said I don't think it's a [i]horrible[/c] card, and I might actually go test it sometime, but I'm just not sure how useful it'd be. In fact it may have been tested already, I'm not sure. We want things that happen right away. It might be useful in addition to mesa...I've been trying to look into more cards that can perform multiple roles for this deck.
if the sheets would draw and not put it into your hand hoofprints would be pretty good. But with only SDT to get extra draws (not counting relic and abeyance here) it's not close to hot
Level 1 DCI Judge
Hello. Ive been trying out 2 replenish in the sb after taking out rule of law and relic of progenitus. It its main use is to help putting vital enchantments that get destroyed like the singleton moat back into play or multiple enchantments that get destroyed by sweepers like reverent silence and deeds. I also thought of using serenity but its only use is in enchantress matchups since stax can be easily handed by sacred ground so its really not that useful. Any thoughts about the use of these cards???
Hoofprints is worse at churning out blockers, in my experience, and worse against CB/Chalice to boot.
I'm not really seeing the usefulness of Replenish over, say, Argivian Find, which can rescue other valuable cards, like countered Tops or combo pieces.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Just theoretically IBA.
If you were to use the Stuffy Doll + Guilty Conciousesne combo as the win condition instead, how would your build look like.
I'm very interested in that combo, I really am eager to use Stuffy Doll as a defensive wall, Guilty Concionesce as removal and mainly have no shot of getting my hands on Grindstones anyways.
I am also likely to play Mother of Runes (as early defense against Goyfs plus Stuffy Doll's StP protection), Rebuff the Wicked to protect Stuffy Doll, Mother of Runes, Magus, Isochron Sceptar and other cards and 2 Magus of the Moats (can't get real moats).
But I would really appreciate seeing a theoretical build from you of such a list if you know it.
Edit: Also, why not play Mouth of Ronom. Turning your extra lands into removal is quite good. Coldsteel Heart seems strong as well.
Jack, I remember hearing you say that you would play a white memory lapse. Well, there is a new white Memory Lapse for 1 mana more. I don't know if that changes anything, but there it is. It's called Lapse of Certainty.
KIDS WITH GUNS!
One mana changes a lot imo. I would frankly rather play Rebuff the Wicked.
Almost certainly not. I'd have to think of a really good reason to run it without Stick.
I would cut the Grindstone/Servant kill, then add 3 Stuffy Doll and 1 or 2 Guilty Conscience.
The extra Stuffy Doll would be necessary to deal with the StP issue. The good part would be using Stuffy Doll as an alternate, albeit slow as ass, win condition by itself.
More likely, I would cut the Sacred Mesa for the second Conscience, since it's role would be partially filled by Stuffy Doll. But then, I might cut an Abeyance instead, especially since I'm no longer worried about the likes of EE, Deed, or Gempalm Incinerator.
Otherwise, it would be the same list from the first post in this thread (the updated list on the top of the post)
No.I am also likely to play Mother of Runes (as early defense against Goyfs plus Stuffy Doll's StP protection), Rebuff the Wicked to protect Stuffy Doll, Mother of Runes, Magus, Isochron Sceptar and other cards and 2 Magus of the Moats (can't get real moats).
Maybe Rebuff the Wicked.
Otherwise, no.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
So I take it it would look something like this..
18x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Scrying Sheets
3x Stuffy Doll
2x Guilty Concscience
3x Eternal Dragon
4x Enlightened Tutor
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Wrath of God
3x Runed Halo
3x Oblivion Ring
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Moat
4x Orim's Chant
1x Abeyance
2x Privileged Position/Rebuff the Wicked
2x Isochron Scepter
SB:
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Ray of Distortion
2x Sacred Ground
2x Story Circle
1x Sacred Mesa
1x Decree of Justice
2x Privileged Position/Sterling Grove/Rebuff the Wicked
1x Rule of Law
Seems good all around.
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