In a meta with little combo, would this be a playable deck at the moment?
16x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Scrying Sheets
1x Mouth of Ronom
1x Kor Haven
3x Decree of Justice
3x Eternal Dragon
1x Sacred Mesa
3x Enlightened Tutor
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Orim's Chant
3x Abeyance
4x StP
1x Austere Command
3x Wing Shards
3x Wrath of God
3x Isochron Scepter
1x Powder Keg
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Story Circle
1x Moat
1x Oblivion Ring
I yet have to figure out the Sb. This deck hasn't been discussed for pretty long, is it outdated, or are there new cards that should be in there? Would this be a good list at the moment?
I've actually been tesing a version of Quinn right now (without the toolbox/scepter tricks) and I've been getting great results. It's in N&D right now, if you want the list.
It stands for New & Developmental. The thread in question is here.
Someone let me know if this list is as amazing as Goldfishing makes it seem.
1 Ancient Den
17 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Scrying Sheet
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Condemn
3x Wing Shards
3x Wrath of God (-1 WoG, +1 Karmic Justice? How prevalent is Armageddon these days?)
3x Enlightened Tutor
3x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Eternal Dragon
2x Decree of Justice
1x Hoofprints of the Stag
1x Moat
2x Runed Halo (This card seems ridiculous. Is it?)
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon (Anti graveyard tech that can also stop you from decking - or would Tormod's Crypt just be better?)
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Powder Keg
2x Isochron Scepter
4x Orim's Chant
3x Abeyance
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Is there any particular reason that Hoofprints of the Stag wouldn't fit well in this deck?
EDIT: Derp, I meant the archtype itself, not IBA's deck specifically.
I just don't like Isochron Scepter. The only reason I ever ran the card was because MWC needed more permanent answers. It relied too heavily on the top-deck. Now that Runed Halo is printed, I feel that it does the job a ton better than Scpeter Lock because it doesn't take time setting up, isn't CD, and it is awesome.
I also don't like Enlightened Tutor. It finds answers... but to decks you should already beat easily. IMO, you should just up Runed Halo and Oblivion Ring to 4 and cut out ET. Maybe I just like draw instead of tutoring, but I always found that ET was pretty lame and never did anything to the game, but make me not lose games against Survival, goblins, etc. A Runed Halo or O RIng would have done the same thing.
Hoofprints isn't as good as Mesa, as it turns out. Mainly due to Humility in the board.
Anyway, over the weekend, although I was playing Standard/Block, I realized for the first time with full force something that's been tickling the back of my mind for a while;
Decks that can't win their rounds in time must inherently suck.
Probability stacks over time. Over a long enough set of games, assuming that playskill is neutralized as a variable, the favored deck always wins the exact amount of games it's favored to win. But any shorter amount of games introduces the chance for variables. If I'm 60% favored against a deck, for instance, I'm substantially more than 60% favored to win the round... assuming I can finish three games in that time.
But if I can't, I'm needlessly exposing myself to losses and draws against archetypes I should've defeated.
It is therefore not enough for a control deck to be able to break the opponent's assault. It is vitally important that it be able to capitalize on that quickly.
In Truffle Shuffle, this means that I've been adding more kill conditions. For Quinn, however, I think that a combo kill is superior. Between the Enlightened Tutors and Chants/Abeyances, we're already well set up to force in a quick combo finish; and besides, Eternal Dragon is not the recursive beater that Gigapede is.
So, the combo. Time Vault and Mizzium Transreliquat doesn't actually kill the opponent at all if they choose not to concede, and so only compounds our problem. Charbelcher and Endless Horizons has some potential, but it clashes with our draw engine and simply isn't that fast, although both pieces accomplish something on their own. Lego suggested Grindstone and Painter's Servant, and I have concurred. The idea of a turn 3 kill in MWC amuses me, for one thing. So, here is the list as I'm testing it right now;
// Deck file for Magic Workstation
// Lands
4 [CS] Scrying Sheets
17 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [SHM] Mistveil Plains
// Creatures
2 [SC] Eternal Dragon
2 [SHM] Painter's Servant
// Spells
2 [MR] Isochron Scepter
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
3 [SC] Wing Shards
1 [LG] Moat
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
3 [OV] Abeyance
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
2 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
2 [SHM] Runed Halo
2 [TE] Grindstone
3 [REW] Wrath of God
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SHM] Painter's Servant
SB: 1 [TE] Grindstone
SB: 1 [NE] Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 1 [TE] Humility
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [MM] Ivory Mask
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1 [10E] Story Circle
SB: 1 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
SB: 1 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 [UD] Powder Keg
SB: 1 [MI] Sacred Mesa
SB: 1 [RAV] Privileged Position
The maindeck only has one singleton, favoring reliability over silver bullets. The combo obsoletes many of the needs for singletons anyway; There's less need to worry about recursive threats when you can kill in one turn. The sideboard is all singletons, although many of them are heavily redundant.
I'm liking this deck right now. It can steal quick games, or it can wear down the opponent's edge until dropping the kill all at once; or, alternately, just going Dragon or Decree beats.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
So, went 5-2 in the Source tourney with the following list;
18x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Scrying Sheets
2x Eternal Dragon
2x Painter's Servant
2x Grindstone
2x Decree of Justice
3x Enlightened Tutor
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Runed Halo
2x Oblivion Ring
3x Wing Shards
3x Wrath of God
1x Moat
2x Isochron Scepter
4x Orim's Chant
3x Abeyance
SB:
2x Argivian Find
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Sacred Ground
1x Jester's Cap
1x Story Circle
1x Jester's Cap
1x Pithing Needle
1x Sacred Mesa
1x Genju of the Fields
1x Powder Keg
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Aura of Silence
1x Hanna's Custody
Matchups:
Round 1- Solidarity. Seriously? I die.
Round 2- Bye. I beat the shit out of this guy[/Igottheroundbyejoke]
Round 3- TES. Orim's Chant maindeck is awesome.
Round 4- I think Survival. Scepter-Chant is amazing.
Round 5- Aggro Loam. Sacred Ground from the board is big, as are both combos.
Round 6- SwanThresh. I made a playmistake game 1 that cost me, using Oblivion Ring early on a creature and then basically losing to Counterbalance. Then got burnt out another game. Very sad face.
Round 7- Landstill. Jester's Cap was fucking amazing game 3. This would so go to two hours in a tournament.
More details later.
Solidarity is a terrible matchup, but I should've won the SwanThresh round. I played poorly. The deck's fucking amazing though. Although I'm cutting DoJ and possible either Wing Shards or Wrath (or moving them both to 2-ofs). Top definitely needs to be a 4-of, and Sacred Mesa should be maindeck.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Is it really necessary to play two Painters? You don't really want to draw them until you can combo out, which is turn 6 minimum, but usually later so that you have chant protection... and by that time, the deck usually has control of the board and can wait on the kill. Grindstone at least can do stuff on its own.
EDIT: Also, do you miss Mouth of Ronom at all? It can be kinda win-more, but it was always nice to have, especially when you could bait an opponent into wastelanding it with a Sheets in hand.
EDIT2: Cap is listed twice in the sb.
I would say yes, just because of StP. Sometimes you want to try and combo relatively mid-game, before you have the full protection up, and it's a lot easier to do so knowing that if you run into StP, you can always try again later.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
So, I've had quite a bit of obsession with mono-white decks right now, and have been thinking of building a deck like this, only more permanant based. However, I was wondering how a deck like this would perform versus a mono-white stax. I honestly don't have much experience with either of them, and I know they play quite differently. I do however want to build one eventually, and would like to know which would be "better." I feel like stax would probably be stronger, but I want to get some input on this deck too.
^I would build this instead of white stax. I like the stax archetype more, but legacy stax lacks the glue that Vintage has, and most stax variants are a couple of cards away from being perfect. This allows for more versatile metagaming, while stax is a one-size-fits-all deck, and plays the opponent's deck rather than your own.
I honestly don't know. Armageddon Stax seems problematic, but they also scoop pretty hardcore to Chant-Lock, and have few ways of dealing with the kill-combo. That said, LD in general is the deck's biggest weakness, so I'd definitely bring in the Sacred Ground for starters. The SB in general seems like it helps a lot.
I think the second Cap listed accidentally in the sb was actually a Scepter, but I could be wrong.
Also, Mouth of Ronom: Actually, I lost a game and thus a round to not drawing enough White, so I'm leaning away from adding more colorless, although perhaps 1x Ronom wouldn't be as bad with the 4th Top. But I don't think it's necessary either.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
With the Enlightened Tutor silverbullet toolbox, why aren't you running a Wheel of Sun and Moon in your sideboard as I think it might actually be better than Tormod's Crypt in this deck.
I was running a Wheel of Sun and Moon, but basically kept encountering where I never really preferred it to Crypt. In what scenario is it better? I can think of Solidarity and Imperial Painter, neither of which is particularly prevalent.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Armageddon stax has challice @ one and armageddon...
That being said, congrats on the 5-2, I am glad to see someone else beside me actually doing something with control decks nowadays.
Have you considered running Privileged Position in the board as a way to protect your things from grip?
See Hanna's Custody. I had PP, but basically came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth paying an extra two mana to protect Halo and Moat. Five mana's a lot.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
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