[Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Counterbalance can be exaggerated. It's usually not that backbreaking unless you're caught off guard with a hand full of 1cc parts. And running 3x O-Ring maindeck helps quite a bit. The problem with Scour is that it's really only good against Counterbalance, where more Auras would be tutorable and relevant to multiple matchups, including hitting Chalice and, I suppose if it comes up, the mirror. Also, it can destroy a Standstill.

If I wanted an instant answer, I think I might just rather have the Ray of Distortion mentioned by mugs earlier. Being able to hit Chalice, Pithing Needle, et. al., is pretty big. Not to mention having an out to Scepter-Chant if the mirror ever becomes relevant.

I'm going to just go ahead and break down the tension between the contested control slots and their functions;


Moat- Shuts down the attack phase, hopefully. Doesn't deal with Goblin-burn or flyers or utility creatures. I think this is still best as just a tutor target, as sometimes it's simply not relevant.

Wrath- Good against horde-based decks, anything Tribal, Survival, etc., anyone that overplays their position.

Wing Shards- Good against aggro-control. But can be played around. Also, much much better against Blue-based midrange than Black, which can just hit it before their attack phase with discard.

Runed Halo- Good against decks with a few powerful win conditions, weak against hordes. Good against combo.

Oblivion Ring- Good against decks with a small clutch of kill conditions or powerful key cards like Chalice, Counterbalance, Jitte, Survival, etc. I'm pretty sure that this should definitely be bumped to a 3-of.

StP- I don't think this is contested, but what the hey. Very cheap, efficient 1-for-1 at instant speed.

Condemn- Might be worth considering? But heightens vulnerability to anti-1cc effects in Chalice/CB, and doesn't necessarily offer more power than Halo or O-Ring.


Outside Shots:

Vengeful Dreams/Shining Shoal- Card disadvantage, generally, but offer a lot of potentially game swinging power.

[Mister Agent]

I like aura of silence as a tutorable tech in the face of counterbalance, chalice of the void, and other enchantments and/or artifacts that can poise a problem. Although I imagine oblivion ring is more utilizing against aggro-control decks since it operates in a similar manner to vindicate.

However even E. tutoring for a nevinyrral's disk or an oblivion stone seems like some hot tech against alot of decks in the format. It is also unfortunate that skull of orm costs a bit much for activation usage.

[Malloot]

I was wondering if there is a place for Gelid Shackles as a 1 of in this deck, seems like a nice tutor target and can be drawn through Scrying Sheets aswell.

[Roman Candle]

What do we think of this guy:

Elspeth, Knight Errant 3WW

Planeswalker-Elspeth

+1: Put a 1/1 white Soldier creature token into play
+1: Target creature gets +3/+3 and flying until end of turn.
-8: For the rest of the game, creatures, artifacts, enchantments, and lands you control are indestructible.

I'm not sure this can work in the modern builds that don't run Humility and play with the Painter combo, but in a more traditional build, this seems potentially really stupidly good. Engineered Explosives was always the most annoying card ever when you were trying to win with Decrees... this guy solves that pretty well. I dunno if he's better than the combo, but he at least seems worth testing.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

If Elspeth were tutorable, it might be sexy, but even then it'd be competing against DoJ, which was already cut. The Indestructibility just seems too hard to get to to really be relevant most of the time.

So, as I'm playing this deck more I'm getting a better sense of it's weaknesses. Basically, Counterbalance and Chalice, and mass LD, are functionally the only things that worry me anymore. Aside from those, I really can't remember the last deck I had a hard time against. The problem is that those, especially the first two, are fairly common and pretty damaging.

After talking with Eldariel a bit, I'm consolidating the sort of mashed up sideboard. I'm cutting the crap that's not really necessary and focusing on what's needed.

3 Sacred Ground; This card stops one of the singlest biggest problems for the deck single-handedly. It deserves to be run as more than a 1-of, even with Tutor.

2 Endless Horizons, 2 Goblin Charbelcher; An alternative win that doesn't give two ripe farts in the wind about Chalice or CB. With Scrying Sheets, you need to combo over multiple turns usually, but as part of the anti CB/Chalice gameplan, it seems strong. Also, neither piece is dead by itself.

2 Aura of Silence, 2 Seal of Cleansing; No brainer. Take out the card that hurts you.

2 Relic of Progenitus, 2 Story Circle; Other-purpose sideboard cards. Relic for graveyards, Story Circle to deal with creature-based decks and especially burn/fairy stompy where Moat isn't much help.

[Pulp_Fiction]

If you are having problems with Counterbalance and Chalice of the Void test out Return to Dust. 2WW Instant, Remove an Artifact or Enchantment from the game, if you played this spell during your main phase you may remove another Artifact or Enchantment from the game. Do you think in the main you could replace the Painter combo with Endless Horizons combo? It just seems like neither piece is dead on its own. With Top in play Belcher may actually be able to kill some creatures and Horizons is just good by itself. Painter's Servant is useless except as a chump blocker and Grindstone is just pointless aside from occassionally fucking up an opponent's Tutor. Of course mana cost is an issue here but the Horizons combo also doesn't care if your opponent has StP.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Basically, CB and Chalice matter in the format, but they don't matter as much as speed. Grindstone-Servant is faster, easier to force through with Chant, and doesn't require me to activate it multiple times, which Charbelcher usually would. I think it's better in the board.

Also,

HOLY SHUCKING FIT!

Scourglass - 3WW
Artifact (R)
T, Sacrifice Scourglass: Destroy all permanents except lands and artifacts. Play this ability only in your upkeep.

It doesn't solve Chalice/Equipment problems, and it's got terrible synergy with O-Ring, but this card is definitely pretty sexy. Might be worth reformatting around.

[Illissius]

Why is it better than Nevinyrral's Disk?

I wonder why they went with "play this ability only in your upkeep" rather than "comes into play tapped".

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Because you can keep on using it, for one thing. Also, it doesn't blow up your kill conditions or Divining Top.

[Zach Tartell]

Because you can keep on using it, for one thing. Also, it doesn't blow up your kill conditions or Divining Top.

Sacrifice is part of the activation cost.

[KillemallCFH]

Because you can keep on using it, for one thing.

You do realize that it has to be sacrificed to pay for it, right?

[Illissius]

Scourglass - 3WW
Artifact (R)
T, Sacrifice Scourglass: Destroy all permanents except lands and artifacts. Play this ability only in your upkeep.

Not hitting Scepter & co. is valid.

EDIT -- I am beaten. (The Source Online Rapid Response Team in action. In a way, it's depressing.)

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Oh wow, I thought that same exact thing.

On the plus side, it will aways be faster or as fast as Disk.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Oh, wow, I'm stupid. Never mind.

How is dropping this fifth turn, waiting until your next turn as fast as dropping Disk fourth turn? No, I take it back, Disk is better. Hitting Equipment, Chalice, Chrome Mox is good. I can't think where I'd need this if I had Scepter-Chant lock active.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

How is dropping this fifth turn, waiting until your next turn as fast as dropping Disk fourth turn?

Because I missed the part about using it during your upkeep. Apparently white artifacts are hard to read.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I'll run with it.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Despite the problems with Scrying Sheets, my testing so far with the alternate combo kill in the board has been pretty impressive.

1) Both pieces are useful by themselves.

2) Goblin Charbelcher is awesome with a Top out.

I'm actually pondering the strengths of moving the combo to the maindeck. It has less of an ability to win out of nowhere, but it greatly reduces the vulnerability to Counterbalance/Top, and would allow me to run Humility maindeck.

I'm torn.

Also, Story Circle is really good with Painter's Servant. That's all. Black is usually correct, by the way, due to Snuff Out/Ghastly Demise/etc.

[clavio]

I personally like the Horizons/Belcher kill. Opponents are not nearly as prepared for it as they are for the painter/grindstone. Additionally, horizons is very useful on it's own. I'd almost consider running it without belcher.

I've been running 3 eternal dragons. They're good when the combo kill gets stopped somehow (gaea's blessing).

[badjuju]

Has everyone decided to go with Painter's Servant / Grindstone?

I noticed that nihil credo's list in the most recent Source tourney (Sept 16) was packing more removal/anti-combo and didn't run the extra kill (just dragon and DoJ). I actually prefer it that way, although Painter's Servant provides the "oops I win" factor. Did you think by running that combo you would have won games you wouldn't have won otherwise?

Were you more worried about running into combo that you ran 2 Gilided Lights md and 3 Runed Halos md? How was Hoofprints vs Sacred Mesa in that situation?

Otherwise, that list looks bomb.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Actually, I had nothing to do with that list. It was a mockup. I tried getting them to edit the list for the tournament, but they didn't, and it lost. Frowntown. I think the combo would've helped a lot. I really didn't like that list, it only had two Tops for God's sake.

I don't recommend Gilded Light in this deck. Tutorable anti-combo cards take up less room and are more versatile. 1x Ivory Mask would be better if you wanted something like that, although Runed Halo is cheaper and in some ways much more versatile (naming Tarmogoyf, for instance).