How's the deck positioned in today's meta and what are its good and bad matchups? I'm looking to get back into Legacy and I noticed I already own a significant amount of the cards that go into this deck. It seems like an inexpensive way to start playing again.
It's a pretty well positioned inexpensive deck (no duals/ports etc. needed) right now. With 4 maindeck rest in peace and enlightened tutor and top, dredge is the best matchup with other graveyard heavy decks being even to favored. Don't forget rip shuts down goyf/mongoose/delve cards/snap caster/loam/past in flames etc. The deck also has little issue with tnn/leovold and plays maindeck anti sneak and show hate. The Omni heavy version is terrible though and even with o-rings and needles planewalkers are very tough to handle. Miracles is tough but winnable. Their 4 maindeck swords/terminus are dead, most lists can't deal with a resolved rip, and usually need to fow helm. Against blue decks orim's chant and abeyance are played preemptively to stop counters. Top, enlightened tutor, chant effects, and deck construction/sideboarding benefit a lot from practice with the deck and understanding the meta reasonably well. I'd suggest practicing online/with friends before playing in a tournament or you might get discouraged. Also feel free to post questions here and get some discussion going, warp world and I might be the only Quinn players on our respective continents.Originally Posted by Icapica
Tldr: dodge decks with 3+ planewalkers, practice a bit, and you'll be solid. #Quinning.
Well I went and built the deck. Yesterday I played with for the first time, going 3-2-1 with a fairly stock list in a 60 player tournament. I don't have the list at hand right now and don't feel like retyping it, but there was nothing special about it.
1st round:
Some False Cure aggro with Kavu Predators, Invigorates and stuff. I win the first game pretty fast with RIP and Helm, I think helped by StoP in a Scepter.
Second game he has Kavu Predator and casts False Cure, I tap my Top to get Chant from the top of the deck and cast it so he can't use Invigorate with the FC. Next turn I recast my Top and cast Ensnaring Bridge, thinking that he's not going to kill me in one round as I have quite a lot of life and if he uses Invigorate to boost Kavu, he'll only be able to attack once with it. I have only four lands so I tap out. He attacks and kills me in one roundAfter the game I notice I had Terminus third card at the top of the deck so I could have survived had I used the top instead of casting the Bridge. Third game we run out of time. I had my wincon in hand but needed one more turn to be able to use it, though I don't know if he had any answers to it.
1-1-1 (0-0-1 total)
Not a great start. I know I'm slow with this deck and I'm wondering if going in the draw bracket will put me against other slow players with grindy decks.
2nd round:
Food Chain. Game one he casts Avoid Fate and I know what's going on. He then casts Food Chain and I chant in response to get one more turn to figure out an answer. I have Runed Halo, Ensnaring Bridge and some other stuff in hand. However I don't know what Food Chain nowadays uses as a wincon so I can't name Walking Ballista which he then uses to kill me.
Game two I think he stops RIP + Helm about four times with various responses and eventually just kills me by attacking, as I never draw any good ways to stop him.
0-2 (0-1-1 total)
At this point I decided I just wanted to win even a single match.
3rd round:
Infect. Game one I get him in Scepter-Chant lock for a long time but I never get more than four lands during the game and he has an Inkmoth Nexus on board. As he has a lot of cards, I'm pretty sure I'll die the moment I spend my mana on something else. Eventually I cast something else and then tap out to Chant him, he Dazes and kills me.
Game 2 I screw up majorly. He attacks with Glistener Elf and casts Vines with a kicker. I have a Chant and StoP but just cast StoP without Chanting first. He counters the StoP and then casts Berserk. I should have cast Chant first but even then I could have still cast it in response to FoW and only taken 5 poison instead of 10.
0-2 (0-2-1 total)
No chance of doing well at all, but I drove to another city for this so I'm going to play all rounds just to hopefully learn something.
4th round:
Death and Taxes. When testing this matchup has felt very awkward since D&T has some out to every situation. Game 1 I manage to slow him down a bit and then get a relatively fast RIP + Helm and win.
Game 2 I again slow him down and then manage to get both Humility and Moat. He can't do anything and we both just keep drawing cards doing nothing and trying to draw something useful. I draw Elspeth and begin slowly killing him. A few turns later I get RIP + Helm and he concedes.
2-0 (1-2-1 total)
Had my first match win finally.
5th round:
White Stax. Game one he starts with Trinisphere and Chalice at 1 followed by Wastelands and Crucible. I go third turn RIP, fourth turn Helm, fifth turn kill.
Game two he again starts with Trinisphere, Chalice at 1, Crucible, Wasteland and then Mishra's Factory and Batterskull. I go third turn RIP, fourth turn Helm, fifth turn kill. I was very, very lucky in both games since generally Chalice at 1 is just horrible for the deck and Trinisphere isn't very fun either, even if not nearly as bad as Chalice.
2-0 (2-2-1 total)
6th round:
Eldrazi Stompy. Game one he starts with Mimics, I cast Runed Halo naming Eldrazi Mimic and buy myself a lot of time. He gets some damage in before I cast Ensnaring Bridge and make him unable to attack with anything but a 1/1 token from Warping Wail. Some time goes and I get RIP and Helm and kill him.
Game two he starts fast with Reality Smashers and a big Endless One, then casts Trinisphere and a Chalice at 2 to stop RIP. I Chant-walk him a couple of times and then get Ensnaring Bridge again, while he casts Pithing Needle naming Top and that Needle-like creature naming Helm. Neither of us draw anything particularly relevant for many rounds until I get a Moat and he gets an Endbringer. He begins to grind me down one damage at a time (from 10 life) with Endbringer but I draw Enlightened Tutor and get Humility knowing that there's not much time left to the round. Time gets called and he draws Ratchet Bomb but has too few turns to use it.
1-0-1 (3-2-1 total)
I felt pretty good about the deck, less good about my decisions. I really love both Moat and Humility, and also enjoyed Chants. Even just using Chant as a pseudo-Timewalk worked very well for me as the deck has so many answers to creatures that getting some extra draws is likely to get me something useful. Something I didn't enjoy was the times when I had to play without Divining Top, either due to it being named with Needle or something, or because I just couldn't find it. Also I've noticed people expressing scepticism towards Porphyry Nodes, but it was a great card for me. Playing it after the opponent plays their first creature bought me a lot of time in a couple of games and one time I won a game because my opponent didn't want to lose tempo and wasted a spell destroying Nodes, then had no answers to RIP + Helm that came a couple of turns later. Also it's just fun to play cards that make people go "what the **** is that?"
Scepters I'm not entirely sure about. Also some decks had a ton of ways to destroy artifacts and Enchantments and I found it difficult if the deck was also able to put a lot of pressure on me. I had Mentors on the board, but never managed to use them.
Next week there's three small Legacy tournaments in my hometown so I guess I'll get some more experience with the deck soon. Then in two weeks there's a 70-80 player tournament here.
Good work going positive with Quinn in your first tournament with it! Especially since you didn't play any decks that care about the graveyard. Post your deck next time as there isn't really a set Quinn deck. Good to see what others are trying. Also I agree with your comments: top is easily the best card in the deck, I also like my 1 porphyry nodes, and 1 sceptre seems correct to me right now (possibly 0 sceptre).
Alright, now I've played in three more tournaments and have the deck in front of me and time to type the list.
16 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Flooded Strand
4 Scrying Sheets
4 Rest in Peace
4 Helm of Obedience
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Porphyry Nodes
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility
1 Runed Halo
1 Moat
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
3 Orim's Chant
2 Abeyance
1 Wrath of God
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Council's Judgment
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Oblivion Ring
First tournament had 14 people, I went 2-2. My deck had some minor differences at that time but was close to what it's now. I lost to Dragon Stompy (0-2), won against Lands (2-0) and Reanimator (2-1), then lost to 12 Post. Dragon Stompy was kinda tough with Chalice, big creatures and Chandra. Lands was very easy as a lot of the cards in it were dead against me and RIP was very strong. 12 Post seemed very hard, basically the longer the game went on the less chances I had. I would have needed a fast combo.
Second tournament had 49 players and I went 2-4. Matchups were 2 Miracles, 2 Burn, TNN and Jund. I won against one Burn and Jund, lost to the others. So far even in testing I haven't won a single game against Miracles, ever. Burn matches were pretty tight all of them (lost 1-2, won 2-1) and I'm wondering if there's any better solutions for that matchup. Leylines just don't do enough since Burn decks play so many creatures now and Tendrils decks are nearly nonexistent here. In TNN match I did some big mistakes since I was tired and the tournament venue was extremely hot, I lost 1-2. Jund had poor luck and I won 2-0 with a relatively easy combo.
Yesterday I played in a 10 player tournament.
First opponent was D&T, I won 2-0 by slowly grinding the game to halt so that he could do very little to hurt me, then I comboed. Both games I got an Ensnaring Bridge and then kept my hand empty, in the second game he had managed to get 2 counters on Jitte so he started attacking with a Mystic by giving it -1/-1 to attack with 0 power, then +2/+2. Eventually I managed to combo at 4 life.
Second opponent played Maverick. I don't remember if I wont 2-1 or 2-0, but I remember that I had to put a lot of effort on playing around Pridemages, Thalias and Mothers of Runes. In the last game he got a Thalia, Mother of Runes, a Pridemage and also Gaddock Teeg in play. I had a Mentor in play so he tapped out to get as many threats as possible to race me. I cast Council's Judgment, exiled Mother of Runes, then StoPped Gaddock, cast Helm of Oblivion (RIP was already in play) and killed him.
Third match was Eldrazi Stompy, but unfortunately I didn't know it when I chose to keep my starting 7 (I was on draw). I kept a 2-lander with Top, Stop, Tutor and some other stuff. He started with a Chalice at 1, I didn't draw more lands for several turns lost. Second game I started with a land and Top, then he got his Chalice one turn too late, and soon followed with another Chalice at 2. I got a fast Ensnaring Bridge and proceeded to keep my hand small or empty, including playing 4 Helms of Oblivion, though he had named them (and TOP) with Needle and that creature that does the same. He started slowly killing me with Endbringers until I got a Terminus. Then I got Council's Judgment and Oblivion Ring, got rid of Chalice at 2 and the Needle, cast RIP and killed him. Third game he again got a turn 1 Chalice and then beat me very fast. I had the combo pieces in my hand but no way to slow him down to buy the time to win.
Fourth match was Reanimator. G1 I won with a fast RIP, G2 he won with a turn 1 Griselbrand, then G3 was a long grind. I got RIP in play but didn't draw anything to follow it, I was stuck at 3 lands for a very long time. He didn't have any lands so I ended up casting Council's Judgment on Lotus Petal to prevent him from slowly getting more mana sources. I later drew another RIP and played it, which was a good choice as he soon was able to kill the other one. Then much later I got a fourth land and won.
I went 3-1, got a some boosters and opened a Tarmogoyf so that was nice.
I love how the deck can survive and win games that seemed like you lost already. I've been thinking what, if any, chances to make to the list. Burn matchup feels a bit lackluster but it's usually not a very common deck here. Miracles is horrible and it's maybe 10% of the meta, but I don't know if I can make the matchup much better without compromising other matchups. Chalice of the Void is somewhat common, but Eldrazi doesn't otherwise too difficult so maybe I shouldn't care much about it either. Maybe I could try to make the deck rely a little less on 1 mana cards, this could also help against Counterbalance.
I didn't originally have Abeyances in the deck but decided to give them a try. I'm not sure yet how to feel about them. Terminus is annoying in the opening hand but it's saved me several times so far. Also I've hardcasted it several times since the deck is good at making the game last long.
@Icapica congrats on the success. If burn is an issue Aegis of Honor is good against them it also has other narrow applications. We are pretty well set up to deal with creatures as the game goes on. How has the chant and abeyance been? I found abeyance to be lacking.
I feel like the new Gideon of the Trials would slot in very well in this deck.
Early on, it can prevent damage. Or if you have a moat out/have locked them out of attacking, it can straight up win you the game with it's last ability.
Yeah I originally had one Aegis of Honor on the sideboard, but I removed it since it seemed like nobody here played any burn. Then in that 49 player tournament there suddenly was several burn decks again. But yeah, it might be a good card to put back, as it's cheap enough I can tutor it early. The deck typically has enough stuff to deal with creatures, but Burn can kill with either creatures or burn spells, and I find it rare to have a starting hand that can deal with both. I suppose Aegis of Honor should help with this as it makes every Tutor an answer to burn spells.
I don't know if it's worth it to keep 4 Leylines in the sideboard just for burn as Tendrils seem almost non-existent and Leylines don't seem quite good enough against other stuff. Maybe I could leave one as a tutor target. That would open up several slots for something, don't know what. Maybe more Oblivion Rings at least, maybe one more tutorable answer to grave shenanigans.
I'm not sure about Abeyance yet since for some reason I haven't drawn it more than maybe once after I put it in the deck. I do like Chants though. Even just using them to buy time has helped me win several games by allowing me to dig deeper to get an answer or maybe play one more land to cast Helm.
It looks like it has potential, but it actually can't win you the game with Moat out as it doesn't fly (and it's hard to do with Ensnaring Bridge). It can help you not lose, but you'll still need another wincon. The reason I like Elspeth is that you can make a single token and just keep attacking with a 3/3 flier that doesn't care about Moat.
Back when it was just Goblin Guide and the occasional Grim Lavamancer, I ran 2 copies of Kor Firewalker along with 3 Leyline of Sanctity. The larger the event the more Burn you need to be prepared for, not surprised to hear you never seeing it at 14 man events but 2 times at a 44 man event. I think Kor Firewalker can still be good against the modern Burn decks, doing a great job blanking the creatures while taking the edge off the spells, at least long enough to bring down some serious cards like the Scepter-Chant or a Leyline.
Well I was a few weeks ago in a 60 player tournament here there was only 3 burn decks in the entire tourney; I based my expectations on that. But yeah it might be a good idea to have two sideboard setups, one for the small tournaments and one for big. There's 2 Legacy tourneys in this town most weeks but the small ones are frequented by a group of active players that can afford to play something other than Burn.
Good work on winning a goyf with Quinn, Icapica! I'm ready to give up on my pet project deck and will be returning (gloriously) to Quinn on Tuesday.
Oh crap, Top got banned. I hadn't even had this deck for many weeks yet.
Well...Quinn is dead...RIP. Victim of our own success I guess. I really don't feel Quinn was that overpowered...oh well.
This is golden.
But yeah, it's too bad about Quinn. I assume most pilots would enjoy Parfait.
Sad times for sure. To bad it had to be Top. Yeah Quinn just becomes Parfait because land tax and scroll racks become the best card advantage engine in color.
Could we splash green for sylvan library?
Maybe:
lands: 22
10x snow plains
4x snow forest
4x scrying sheets
4x windswept heath
consistency: 8
4 sylvan library
3 enlightened tutor
1 sterling grove
Protection: 21
4 swords
2 oblivion ring
2 ensnaring bridge
2 humility
1 runed halo
1 leyline of sanctity
2 isochron scepter
3 orim's chant
2 abeyance
2 porphyry nodes
Combo: 8
4 rest in peace
4 helm of obedience
Creature Package: 1
1 elspeth, knight errant
SB:
3 terminus
3 mindbreak trap
3 leyline of sanctity
1 humility
1 never more
1 path to exile
1 ethersworn canonist
1 pithing needle
1 ethersworn canonist
Humiliating Sun auf der MKMS-Hamburg
I don't know, if this fits to Mighty Quinn, because there are many differences, but I think don't wanna open a new thread. I played this misantropic pile at MKM-Series in Hamburg. (and now some typical german: I'm sorry for my grammar, spelling and syntax... I've given my very best...)
// Lands
4 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Karakas
1 Ancient Den
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Throne of the High City
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Kor Haven
1 Arid Mesa
// Spells
4 Orim's Chant
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Isochron Scepter
4 Humility
3 Moat
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Expedition Map
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Land Tax
1 Approach of the Second Sun
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Runed Halo
1 Cursed Totem
2 Council's Judgment
1 Powder Keg
1 Caltrops
1 Cast Out
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Jester's Cap
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Greater Auramancy
SB: 3 Teferi's Protection
SB: 1 Gideon's Intervention
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
Round 1: The first match was against Tom’s Grixis Pyromancer. He started with a Pyromancer, which had to take a StoP in his face and the following delver, too. After this a Scepter with Chant gave me a lot of time, to got up Leyline, Moat and Humility and he gave up. During the second match his Hymn stole my two removal and his delver was slowly killing me... In the third match he was bombarding me with creatures, which I could remove with a lot of StoPs and Judgements, but in the end he casted Death Shadows, too and I saw no Moat… 0:1
Round 2: Sascha played with his czech pile a little bit around and couldn't counter my Humility and Moat. After Moat was hitting the board he wanted to give up. I was totally happy, but then he said, that he wants to see my win-option. He topdecked a Jace and fateseal me to death, because I couldn't find an out despite the fact, that I was the monarch … In the second match he countered and extracted very fast my Moat. I could win time with my Karakas against his Leovold. Then he casted another creature, which was useless because I drew Kor Haven. The thrid creature enters the battlefield after some rounds, so that the beatdown started under humility. I was still hoping for an enlightened tutor or my caltrops, but these cards didn't show up … 2:0
Round 3: Leyline on my starthand and this was too much for Jörg… So the blind board began and I desided to board against burn. I started again with a Leyline on my starthand and humility and moat followed after a short time. He just wanted to save time for his anarchy and he bolted one Elspeths Token after the other. Then he found his long-desired Anarchy, which was answered with my Teferi’s Protection. After this Elspeth had born her Emblem and this was his end. 1:2
Round 4: Again I started with a Leyline, and Felix gives up... I was just thinking: "I love my Leyline Mainboard!" … This time I boarded against storm-decks! During the second match we both were doing nothing for a long time and then he started to combo, which was suppressed by my Chant after his infernal tutor. I was still searching for ein Lockpiece but it didn't show up. He drew a lot of cards with Ad Nauseum and started to combo again. My Runed Halo on Tendrils forced him to create 34 goblin token. During my end of turn he sealed my end by bouncing my Caltrops… The thrid match was started with no Leyline, but with a Chant, 2 Extractions and a Rule of Law, which hits the board in the second turn. I topdecked one storm-lock piece after the other and chilled my life with two Chants and one Teferi's on my hand, while Elspeth were doing her job … 2:2
Round 5: Jonas started quickly with a Show and Tell with Emrakul and I showed him my Humility. The match ended with overwhelming face expressions. In the second match I was totally white-mana-screwed and had two Humility and Moat on my hand. He casted Sneak Attack and drew with Griselbrand 14 cards to instant kill me with an additional Emrakul, while my Chant remained unkicked on my hand… The thrid match we started both with a three-card hand. After a few turns he cheekily casted Show and Tell with Emrakul again but my answer was again humiliting. 3:2
Round 6: I saw an island and was happy to play against Merfolk, one of the best matchups. His Chalice had no impact on me and my ensnaring bridge prevent an attack. I casted a Scepter with Chant and earned confussion from hin until I got rid of his Chalice by a judgement. He didn't want to give up despite to another scepter with StoP, Moat and Humility, so that the approach of the sun had to humiliate him ;) (sorry, but this has to be)... I started with a five-card starthand and he started to cast a lot of beater. I could defend myself for some time, but no tutor and no moat showed up. In the thrid match my humility was quickly on the board, but again the flood of little 1/1 fishes was too much without an Moat oder scepter... 3:3
Round 7: Against Redanimator and I don't have any memories. But all I can remember was, that my Karakas followed by a humility and Chant-protection saved my ass. Match two, were with all my gravehate quite easier. After ten minutes of this round I found myself watching another match... 4:3
Round 8: Björn played a Cloudpost and this was the moment I feared... this matchup is the hardest and could only be won by an early Scepter with Chant, which I didn't had... StoPs and the Bridge saved my time, but Ulamog is Ulamog… Match two started with a Land Tax and a one-land hand he helped me to get in the game and casted Exploration. I drew all my Plains with Land Tax and was hoping to find a tutor for gideon's intervention or teferi's protection or a scepter before he was able to cast ugin or all is dust but then Ugin told me, that I'm stupied and burned me to death .... 4:4
Round 9: In the final round, there was a battle about the golden currywurst between me and Thores Pyromancer Delver Pile... He started with a delver and wasted my manabase under four… No removal showed up and delver did his job. After the boarding I was forced to take two mulligans. He was able to protect his pyromancer against two StoPs and I got some time by humility and kor haven after this, but again no moat… 4:5
Summarized: Land Tax is a great card, but in a narrow sense, I have no mana problems, so that I decide to play Ghostly Prison, because I died to a lot of 1/1... With Ixalan's Sorcerous Spyglass I get an answer for Eye of Ugin or Ugin himself. Also Spyglass would be nice against other decks like Infect or Jace-Decks, DnT and so on. After a short reflection, I decide to play the following list after Ixalan release:
// Lands
4 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Plains
2 Karakas
1 Ancient Den
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Throne of the High City
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Kor Haven
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Windswept Heath
1 Arid Mesa
// Spells
4 Orim's Chant
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Isochron Scepter
4 Humility
3 Moat
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Expedition Map
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Approach of the Second Sun
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Runed Halo
2 Council's Judgment
1 Cast Out
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Powder Keg
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Cursed Totem
SB: 1 Rule of Law
SB: 1 Jester's Cap
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Greater Auramancy
SB: 2 Teferi's Protection
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Gideon's Intervention
Have you tried this again? I'm planning on trying Wg with sylvan library some time this month.
I played a mono white list a few weeks ago at an FNM to an extremely disappointing 0-4. I feel we need land tax to help with mana as Scrying Sheets is less reliable. Scepter chant felt bad or underwelming most of the night. I might give green a shot. I only have 2 Sylvan Library right now but I might look into a splash color. Let me know how your testing goes. I will jam this from time to time at fnm's and let you know.
Cool I'm going to wait till the 16th to try this still working on finding some cards and a few decisions:
1). Sylvan library or mirri's guile. Library can be cute with pulse of the fields but not sure if that's worth the extra mana.
2) Elspeth or Gideon ally of zendikar.
3) mana base....
lands: 23
9x snow plains
5x snow forest
4x scrying sheets
4x windswept heath
1x savannah
consistency: 8
4 sylvan library
3 enlightened tutor
1 sterling grove
Protection: 20
4 swords
2 oblivion ring
1 pithing needle
2 ensnaring bridge
1 humility
1 leyline of sanctity
1 isochron scepter
1 dueling grounds
2 orim's chant
2 abeyance
1 porphyry nodes
2 pulse of the fields
Combo: 8
4 rest in peace
4 helm of obedience
Creature Package: 1
1 elspeth, knight errant
SB:
2 approach the second sun
2 boseiju
2 mindbreak trap
3 leyline of sanctity
1 humility
1 never more
1 krosan grip
1 path to exile
1 ethersworn canonist
1 pithing needle
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