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Thread: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

  1. #121
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Not sure about questions 2, 3 and 4 but I can answer question 1: YES! The Snow engine is what makes this deck worth running.
    Team R&D

  2. #122
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    It's true that Mesa is amazing, but I think Belcher/Horizons would be a better kill.

    Run at least 3 Scrying Sheets and the Snow engine. It's absolutely amazing. It makes Top go crazy in a deck without fetchlands. It's not missing land drops while not drawing lands.
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  3. #123
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Okay then, I guess I'll get those. It's not too expensive, and I already have one scrying sheets. I mean, I just ordered some orim's chants and enlightened tutors, so what's a little more?

    Why do you think horizons/belcher would be a better kill? They have the same weaknesses to destruction/needling, but mesa by itself is enough to win. Belcher/horizons might be a little faster if you have them, but I do have to get both of them. And both are still fairly mana intensive, so by the time I could set that kill up I might be close to winnning with a mesa already. I think if I'm not using something as efficient as painter/grindstone that I should just go for something that can win by itself...

  4. #124
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    1) Yes. You must play the snow-engine. It has been discussed several times in this thread but once again: you will have each turn a land drop and draw also a spell each turn with it.

    2) One of the best killoptions is Painter + Grindstone. Now money? Ok, so you are going to Belcher. The Mesa is a good option against control, but its a different way of playing. Without kombopeaces, you don't need Abeyance or Chant. With only Mesa, it's quiet another deck.

    3) Why playing Bridge? Without snow maybe it's a choice, but with snow, you often will have about 6 cards in hand. You should play Moat. It's the best card you can play and you often lose without it. Another way coult be story circle!

    4) One Dragon isn't bad. You should run one in you Deck. It searches Plains an could be a great beater.

    IMO it is very difficult to ask for cardchoices etc if you don't can run every card, ever time printed. For Example the Moat. It's an expensive card, but if you ask for the better way to handle opponent's creatures, you can play it...and you also play Enlightened Tutor, don't you? The same for the painterkombo.
    Hard to discuss a deck in which you can't put into all cards you need ;-) Could you borrow you some of those cards?
    Last edited by Pee-Dee-2; 11-07-2008 at 07:29 PM.

  5. #125

    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Thats the Build i testet and i will play tomorrow:

    //Lands:
    4x Scrying Sheets
    18x Snow-Covered Plains

    //Creatures:
    2x Eternal Dragon

    //Other:
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    3x Wrath of God
    2x Humility
    3x Decree of Justice
    2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
    3x Enlightened Tutor
    2x Isochron Scepter
    4x Orim's Chant
    4x Abeyance
    1x Rune of Protection: Red
    1x Relic of Progenitus
    3x Oblivion Ring
    4x Senseis Divining Top


    //Sideboard:
    4x Ethersworn Canonist
    3x Relic of Progenitus
    2x Pulse of the Fields
    3x Sacred Ground
    3x Runed Halo

    I cutted all Combopieces which are Useless if you have only one of them and turned the Deck in a (Landstill similar ) heavy Control Deck. A similar Build performed quite well at the Sideevent (>100) of Protour Berlin...
    Greetz, Wasteland

  6. #126
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    @IBA, what do you side out against faerie stomp?

  7. #127
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Wasteland, I would very strongly suggest 1 mesa instead of 1 decree. Decree can be good, but a tutorable win condition is really nice. I think it's important to have at least 1 tutorable win condition. Thinking about Elspeth, definitely tell me how that goes. The ability to make our control pieces indestructible seems really good, while also doubling as a win condition.

    I would also recommend swapping rune:red for a story circle. If you're going to run it maindeck, I think you want the versatility. Rune is better against red, but it's going to slow you down if you can't actually use it against non-red. The thing that I've found is that cantrips help consistency, but for a control deck like this, it can slow you down too much sometimes.

    It makes me question the lone relic as well. I like the idea of graveyard hate a lot, but I'm still not sure if it's really needed, or too toolboxy. I feel that I wouldn't really search it out much (at least in my build), because I'd go for something to shut down creatures first. (Halo/bridge)

    Humility is meh...I've tried it, but never been completely happy with it, because it's not super-easy to start making my own creatures. Perhaps this will be better with Elspeth. I'd recommend swapping one out for bridge, because for keeping you alive I feel bridge does a much better job by completely stopping things and still letting your little guys through.

    IBA has said this a lot, and I'll reiterate it. The 4th abeyance is not really necessary. You have a lot against combo, and plenty against blue as well if you absolutely need to stick a spell. Again with the trouble of cantrips. You can have so many, but at a certain point you need to make sure there's a good density of control. Top helps a lot, but it can only do so much.

    I'd try and find room for runed halo maindeck...It's just so good. Very strong against decks without much varied win conditions, and is useful against combo as well.

    Speaking of combo...how much combo do you plan to face? I mean, ethersworn canonist seems excessive. You have orim's chant, abeyance, AND runed halo to stop combo...Is that not enough? At the very least, I'd cut a couple canonists.

    For graveyard hate, I'm still unsure exactly of what to run. I think relic is generally better, but if you need speed (like against ichorid), then you need a crypt. The ability to tutor for and play a crypt on the same turn could be huge. Personally I feel that it's best to have at least one of each as protection against chalice/pithing needle.

    In short, my suggestions are:
    -1 Humility
    -1 Abeyance
    -1 Rune of protection: red
    -1 Decree of justice
    -1(SB) Relic of Progenitus
    -2(SB) Ethersworn canonist

    +1 Ensnaring bridge
    +1 Runed Halo
    +1 Story Circle
    +1 Sacred Mesa
    +1(SB) Tormod's crypt
    +2(SB) Whatever

  8. #128
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Why ensnaring bridge? Your hand is always going to be very full once the snow engine gets going.

  9. #129
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Not really. Using it to let you get land drops is getting you cards that go into play...Most of time you don't need to hold onto everything you draw, and you can stop most relevant creatures in legacy with a few cards in hand.

    I just don't like humility, because it still let's creatures through. I've played with a bit and always found that if I didn't have regular removal, after getting a beating for a turn or two, then with multiple creatures as 1/1s, it still really hurt.

  10. #130
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Mongoose is only a 3/3. You almost always have at least 3 cards in hand at the end of turn.

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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Hello,
    I never tried the deck but i would like to try in someday it looks fun, I have several questions and suggestions

    1. Is Jester's Cap not efficient in here ?
    2. Would Humility + Caltrops a bad idea for creature control ?
    3. Would splashing blue for counter magic a bad idea ? instead of just relying on orim's chant and abeyance to delay your opponent
    4. Since the deck greatly suffer on decks that uses chalice for 1 and pithing main board, would Devout Witness, Seal of Cleasing, Aura of Silence, Abolish, etc a must on the main board?
    5. Based on your testing what is the best win condition:
    a. Belcher + Endless Horizons / Mana Several if splashed with blue
    b. Painter Stone
    c. Tokens > Elspeth, Sacred Mesa, Mobilization, & maybe Rise the alarm via ischron
    d. Eternal Dragon or other creatures like Dawn Elemental thats hard to kill and can be a recuring blocker

    Thanks

  12. #132
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    erbs, not to be an ass, but have you considered reading the thread? It's really not that long. Some of these points have been covered multiple times and are fairly basic.

    1) Define "efficient". It's slow and has a limited impact except against other control decks and decks running Gaea's Blessing.

    2) Since it shuts down your best kill conditions,yes. If you ran Humility, Thunderstaff would be better all around anyway.

    3) I'd rather run a different deck. You can't make the snow-mana base work with two colors easily, and the mana stability is one of the chief reasons to play this over other forms of control anyway. You're also misunderstanding the purpose of the Chant/Abeyance effects, which also double as a combo with Scepter and allow you to force through Painter/Grindstone. Besides, they're both better than actual counters against combo 90% of the time.

    4) Pithing Needle isn't such a big deal, but O-Ring serves the function maindeck that Seal and Aura supplement from the side.

    5) Painter Stone. That's why it's the version I'm recommending in these lists.

    As noted above, Humility is generally worse than Moat since it restricts you greatly, while still alllowing damage through. It's particularly bad against decks with equipment, like Dragon Stompy or Raffinity.

    Ensnaring Bridge seems weak to me, but I haven't tested it.
    Last edited by TheInfamousBearAssassin; 11-29-2008 at 12:38 AM.
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  13. #133
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Been a bit busy, but I took my modified list (with bridge and elspeth) to a 30ish person tournament at Monster Den last week. I went 3-2, which wasn't terrible. I'll post a quick report later. However, more importantly my friend who (oddly enough) decided to play the real version of this deck made it to the top 4, which I think is pretty significant.

    However, what is very strange is that I went to my local store a couple days ago (which isn't Monster Den), I saw somebody playing Quinn who was practing against somebody else. I thought that this type of deck was fairly underplayed, but perhaps more people are starting to pick it up.

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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    I tried this lately and found a huge weakness. This deck has no answer to a goblins deck packing Tranquil Domain. He explained he used it for Enchantress type decks and it just happened to be a game winner against me playing Quinn.

    I really couldn't see any way for the deck to deal with Tranquil at all. He just sat back and waited with a decent sized force then when he had enough to kill me just wiped the board clean of enchantments and swung in. If I happened to have some form of backup like Chant/Stick, he just used the Sharpshooter way to kill me. Burning a swords early to take care of Lacky left me open to it later unless I had two and typically I ended up having to use the second swords for Kiki-Jiki.

    You typically make it up to 4 mana with not too much problem even through ports and wastes, but when you can't keep anything on the table it gets rough. Goblins is good for recovering from Wrath and swords if anything else.

    I think I'm going to have to start running Karmic Justice to keep my Moat useful. Moat was turning into a Fog entirely too much. You guys see a better way to fix that? how was Vengeful Dreams in testing? Seems like a decent way to help out, though I'm not keen on losing that many cards.


    At least game 1 is a blowout. Too bad they board and I get mangled.

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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Quote Originally Posted by dahcmai View Post
    I tried this lately and found a huge weakness. This deck has no answer to a goblins deck packing Tranquil Domain.
    ...


    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    2 [SHM] Painter's Servant
    2 [TE] Grindstone
    ...
    4 [PS] Orim's Chant
    2 [MR] Isochron Scepter
    ...
    3 [10E] Wrath of God

    ???


    If I happened to have some form of backup like Chant/Stick, he just used the Sharpshooter way to kill me. Burning a swords early to take care of Lacky left me open to it later unless I had two and typically I ended up having to use the second swords for Kiki-Jiki.
    What?

    Please explain this in more detail. I'm confused.

    How does Sharpshooter work around Scepter-Chant?

    You guys were both aware of the first line of text on Goblin Sharpshooter, yeah?

    Also, how difficult was it really to find a second StP with Top-Sheets and infinite shuffle effects?

    How does Kiki-Jiki matter if you have Scepter-Chant down?
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  16. #136
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    So, tournament report. It's going to be a bit foggy, since I didn't record as well as I should have. I'm not sure the completely turnout of the tournament, but I think there was around 30. Sideboard was quickly thrown together because I didn't have everything I wanted.

    // Lands
    4 [CS] Scrying Sheets
    18 [IA] Snow-Covered Plains

    // Spells
    3 [SHM] Runed Halo
    4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
    4 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
    4 [PS] Orim's Chant
    4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
    2 [MR] Isochron Scepter
    4 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
    3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
    3 [WL] Abeyance
    1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
    2 [6E] Wrath of God
    2 [ALA] Elspeth Knight-Errant
    2 [TSB] Sacred Mesa

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [6E] Wrath of God
    SB: 2 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 [9E] Sacred Ground
    SB: 1 [IA] Jester's Cap
    SB: 4 [WL] Aura of Silence
    SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 [MM] Story Circle
    SB: 1 [PLC] Porphyry Nodes
    SB: 1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant

    Round 1: Goyf Sligh
    Game 1: He simply races me with an abundance of creatures. I'm not able to get a lock piece soon enough.

    Game 2: He's doing pretty well, and I stablize low. In the face of two goyfs I get a chant thanks to top, and put it on a scepter. Luckily he used grips on earlier things I had played, and am able to finish the game with a mesa.

    Game 3: I keep a hand of three lands, three enlightened tutors and an ensnaring bridge. Let's just say he destroys three bridges thanks to 2 grips and a tin-street hooligan in the first 6 turns or so. That was upsetting.

    0-1

    Round 2: Canadian Thresh (?)
    Game 1: Scepter-chant won this game so hard. Just stalled until I got mesa for the win.

    Game 2: This was ridiculous. Runed halo on mongoose and then ensnaring bridge keeps all of his threats away, but we just go back and forth for a long time. Bridge was kept on the board, but he got rid of my mesa before I could make tokens. I had an elspeth out, but after a few soldier tokens he played pithing needle on it. We actually go to time here, so I win the round because of my first win.

    1-1

    Round 3: Affinity
    Game 1: Lose because of attach on cranial plating getting through bridge. Sad face.

    Game 2: 1 land for the first 5 turns or so, even with a top. That pretty much spells lose.

    1-2

    Round 4: MBC w/ rack/nezumi shortfang
    Game 1: Conundrum with this...Bridge stops his creatures, but the rack and nezumi kill me if I don't have enough cards. I think he ends up winning the first game because of this.

    Game 2: I take out my bridges because they're not useful for me. He gets some discard, but I'm able to keep his threats away and lay down scepter-chant for the win.

    Game 3: Something similar to game 2.

    2-2

    Round 5: Stalker-naught
    Game 1: This was somewhat odd deck to play against. It's main problem is that the only threats were 4x stalker and 4x dreadnaught. He splashed white for vindicate and has EE, but I'm able to stop his creatures too easily.

    Game 2: Same thing pretty much. This game went a lot longer, but I slow-rolled him because of his lack of threats.

    Final: 3-2

    So, I was pleased with this. I think I had some bad luck (And some good too), but was definitely happy. All of my games were lock into win condition into win, or having my lock disrupted and losing because of it.

    Bridge is definitely not a terrible replacement for moat at all, but having the ability to go for a moat would have helped somewhat. Bridge was very useful in helping me win games. I'm not sure if a couple are warrented at all in versions without moat, but I think that at least one should be used by people who don't have a moat (me). Moat would also let me use E.Dragon more effectively to give me a long-term win, but also more shuffle effects.

    I got the chance to use Elspeth, but she seems just too slow, at least when I use bridges. With moat she could clear the game in 5 turns, which might be more viable, but I definitely like mesa better, because if it's destroyed I still have useful fliers. I really felt here that painter/stone could have given me the ability to pull wins from losing games.

    Also, runed halo was amazing. I kind of want the 4th one because I found it that useful. It's just so good against decks that don't have a wide variety of threats, which is quite a lot. Relic was meh. I think it's completely valid as a timewalk against graveyard strategies. I also think it's generally useful for a toolbox that only hinders a bit on time. Speaking of that, I kind of wanted to go down to 2 abeyance, but I completely realize the need for protection against blue, and it also makes it easier to choose what to sideboard.

    Feel free to ask if anybody has any questions about my build or the tournament.

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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    ...

    ???
    What?
    Please explain this in more detail. I'm confused.
    How does Sharpshooter work around Scepter-Chant?
    You guys were both aware of the first line of text on Goblin Sharpshooter, yeah?

    Also, how difficult was it really to find a second StP with Top-Sheets and infinite shuffle effects?

    How does Kiki-Jiki matter if you have Scepter-Chant down?

    In answer to the first, Chant doesn't stop a Sharpshooter from tapping to hit you. It only stops spells and Vial takes care of that. So with a pile of goblins and a Skirk Prospector or Siege Gang out, he just sacced a goblin and untapped the sharpshooters over and over until I died. He was keeping my Servants off the table the same way. He never needed to attack.

    It was very difficult to search up a second swords since I never got past the fourth turn in any game.

    He used Kiki-Jiki to copy Matron to get a Siege Gang, played it off the Vial, and proceeded to tear into me over and over copying the Siege gang.

    It was only hard because I had no time to stop all of it. Lacky is a must answer to first turn, then I spent the next few answering Piledrivers and warchiefs. Then goblins can go the long game easily enough with the sharpshooter/Seige Gang route.

    The Vials were the largest problem since they could cast most everything through chants. I could only board in so many answers for them and hunting them fast enough while trying to hold off the assault proved a little much.


    The Tranquil Domain isn't stopped by Chant either. They can always play it in response and get it through to take out the moat, while you're paying for Scepter activations it's rough to have the mana for 4 cc stuff.


    In all honesty, he probably had the nuts hands against me each time. It was entirely too convenient to have an answer right after I gave a bullet to stop one threat. Game one was a blowout in Quinns favor at least. It was that damned Tranquil Domain and Shattering Sprees post board that wrecked me.
    Last edited by dahcmai; 12-01-2008 at 01:56 PM.

  18. #138

    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    Are Sacred Mesa and Elspeth or Painter's Servant and Grindstone. really much better win conditions than Endless Horizons and Goblin Charbelcher. In the first case, there's a lot of man allocation to the kill (maybe less for Elspeth as a win, but that one is longer to apply). In the second case, you're playing a fast combo but with a creature you cannot protect. These cards (referring to grindstone servant) are also useless on their own.

    Playing Endless Horizons, first off makes your draws much better (obviously) and allow for a slow but almost certain kill as you can setup with Orim's Chant more carefully.

  19. #139
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    @ valtrix, what matchup did you have in mind with porphory nodes?

    Nice finish by the way.

  20. #140
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    Re: [Deck] Quinn The Eskimo- Aka, The Mighty Quinn

    @Soto:

    At least one Mesa is necessary no matter what your other kill condition. It just wins for you, it can also be used to stall if necessary, and it can be grabbed with a tutor if you need it for some reason. Elspeth seems reasonable in a deck with moat, but at least in my version with bridges she wasn't very good. I still like her better than decree though. I can't say if the belcher/horizons combo is actually better than Elspeth though. I think it would be simply because when you have the mana you have the game, and it's not terribly hard to get both pieces. Plus, they both are useful. Belcher is not terrible control, and horizons is just awesome.

    As for belcher/horizons vs. grindstone painter, I'm not 100% sure. I honestly think the speed of painter/servant is what makes it worth playing. Sure, you can't always protect the creature, but with 3x abeyance, 4x chant, top and shuffle effects, you should be able to see one if you need it. It also makes sideboarding a little harder for you opponent, I would think. Not only do they need to worry about everything else you're going to do, they might want to keep in creature removal just for servant. Also, belcher/horizons is not always an auto-kill because of scrying sheets. (And if you really want to stretch it, grindstone synergizes with top.)

    @Clavio
    I didn't have any matchup in particular really. I was very rushed coming back from school to go to the tournament, so I barely had enough time to put together the maindeck cards I needed. Of what I had lying around porphyry nodes was lying around, and it didn't seem bad. More against heavy-creature decks, but even as a 1-to-1 it's not bad because it buys me time. I was able to use it in a few matches, so it was still helpful, but I wouldn't use it if I could have had access to better cards for the board.

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