[Deck] RG Survival Advantage - Former DTB

[quicksilver]

On Saturday at the dual land draft I tried out a Burning Wish SB for the deck. Overall I think that it worked out well, however I most defiantly still need some refinement in the wish targets.

Here is the list I ran:

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Viridian Zealot
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Troll Ascetic
2 Yavimaya Elder
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Eternal Witness
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Flametounge Kavu
2 Ravenous Baloth
1 Anger
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Genesis
4 Burning Wish
9 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Boodstained Mire
4 Taiga
2 Mountain

SB:
1 Hull Breach
1 Reverent Silence
1 Disintegrate
1 Pyroclasm
1 Slice and Dice
1 Whirlwind
1 Regrowth
1 Gaea's Blessing
1 Tsunami
1 Ruination
1 Spore Frog
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
3 Naturalize


Good wish targets:

Hull Breach - This is the most efficient artifact/enchantment destruction I could find. It worked out ok destroying two ravagers.

Reverent Silence - Although I did not use this because I went up against few enchantments. I still feel this is strong. It is excellent against enchantress especially when you witness it back. It is also useful for destroying an enchantment on the second turn, like an opponents survival.

Whirlwind - Destroyed some exalted angels when he had mother of runes out. Although I would have liked to see anarchy in the board. Would have been great if I went up against madness.

Tsunami - It was very good, won me two games against trix, and 1 against solidarity.

Ruination - Although I never used it on Saturday, in play testing against decks like landstill, it proved quite useful.



Not as good wish targets -

Disintegrate - uses a lot of mana and was put in there as a way to handle things like eternal dragon and masticore, neither of which I played against. Could also be a late game finisher.

Pyroclasm - just not nearly enough agro there for it to be good against.

Slice and Dice - See pyroclasm

Regrowth - Normally had better things to get than this, but I am still a fan of it being in there.

Gaea's Blessing - Was there for graveyard removal as well as being sided in against solidarity. Just wasn't all that great.



I do like the versatility that the wishes gave me but I think some wish targets could be cut and hopefully some I haven't thought of could be added. I do think I would like to see anarchy in there.



Edited By quicksilver on 1113928074

[Shabbaman]

Hull Breach - This is the most efficient artifact/enchantment destruction I could find. It worked out ok destroying two ravagers.

How do you destroy two ravagers with a hull breach? Either pulverize or meltdown might be good wish targets for artifact destruction.

[cartman34]

I think that Living Wish would be a lot better in this Deck because it does the same thing + beatdown.I would rather have a Virdian Shaman instead of Hull Breach or Witness instead of Regrowth or maybe even Sharpshooter instead of Pyroclasm.

[quicksilver]

How do you destroy two ravagers with a hull breach

It was two seperate games. I was describing my total uses at the tournement.

Meltdown could be useful, I'll have to give it a shot, and pulverize will be fairly hard to get two mountains into play and then to lose them would be really bad. I think that is just way to much of a drawback.

Living wish doesn't really do anything useful. It doesn't give me access to anything I don't already have access to. And almost everything I get would be more mana to do the same thing. Burning wish gives me access to the awesome power of cards like tsunami and ruination, something living wish could never rival. However I have thought about putting one living wish in the board to wish for, so I could get back something removed from the game, but this just sounds like way to much mana and rarely useful.

One of the points of burning wish over living wish is that it is a lot faster. wishing for a pyroclasmand playing it can be done a turn earlier than wishing for the sharpshooter, plus it works that turn instead of waiting a turn, making it two turns quicker. Plus it hits more cretures, like piledriver, warchief and is much more useful against an opponents sharpshooter. One of the main reasons for it was against decks like vial goblins.

But I would really like to hear more people's feedback on the wishes and maybe come up with some more wish targets like meltdown. I would really like to get some targets that can generate card advantage but are only useful in specific situations (Teffri's response like cards) cards like ruination and tsunami are good examples of this. They would be often useless but since I only get them when I need them, they can be very powerful and give me much card advantage.

[cartman34]

One of the points of burning wish over living wish is that it is a lot faster. wishing for a pyroclasmand playing it can be done a turn earlier than wishing for the sharpshooter, plus it works that turn instead of waiting a turn, making it two turns quicker. Plus it hits more cretures, like piledriver, warchief and is much more useful against an opponents sharpshooter. One of the main reasons for it was against decks like vial goblins.

Maybe Pyroclasm is faster but Sharpshooter doesn´t kill most of your creatures and when playing against a Vial Goblins they can overhelm you with small goblins after you cleaned the board when they just cast a Ringleader.

Ruination and Tsunami may be powerfull cards but I can´t you will hardly resolve them against any control Deck in the format, not even against Solidarity.

I don´t really like Burning Wish in a Beatdown Deck it seems that it isn´t usefull enough.What do you get against Aggro Decks when you already have board advantage(which happens often).

Living Wish on the other hand gets:
Duplicant (Exalted Angel)
Viridian Shaman (Artifacts)
Deranged Hermit(Beatdown)
Ravenous Baloth(Burn)
FTK(Taking down something like TWR or Meddling Mage)
Troll Ascetic(against Control)
Elvish Lyrics(Survival)
Spore Frog(Aggro)
Sharpshooter(Survival,Aggro)
etc..

[scrumdogg]

The point of the exercise seems to be to generate gameswinging effects versus combo (the deck's traditional worst matchups) and aggro-control that can recover from SotF's traditional options (like Vial Goblins, which has the potential to generate even more card advantage than SotF...). If I am mistaken, please let me know, but that seems to be the theme of the exercise. That you can access options which also help you against traditional aggro & aggro control is a bonus.

I'm not sure why people seem to be down on the singular nature of cards like Pyroclasm - it is one of the best weenie-sweepers ever. Dave doesn't have to clutter his maindeck with multiple copies, he Wishes for it when appropriate. Then he Witnesses it back as often as he needs thereafter.... The ability to harness sideboard gold (or silver, if we are discussing bullets...) with maindeck Genesis + Survival + Witness nonsense seems extremely powerful to me.

[quicksilver]

Maybe pyroclasm is faster but Sharpshooter doesn’t kill most of your creatures and when playing against a Vial Goblins they can overwhelm you with small goblins after you cleaned the board when they just cast a Ringleader.

1.) If I have to wish for a sharpshooter then that means I don't have survival which means I don't have haste which means that if they have a sharpshooter, then mine does absolutely nothing. I know almost all goblin decks in my meta run 4 main deck sharpshooters. Plus sharpshooter doesn't handle my biggest problems, like warchief. And a siege-gang can just kill it as well as a gempalm incinerator before it even comes on line.
2.) I don't play the pyroclasm just to clear like one creature. I wait till they play all those creatures off the ringleader and then I pyroclasm. I have found that vial goblins usually needs to overextend to beat this deck, which makes pyroclasm good. And at that point who cares if I lose a bird that was probably already killed by them.

Ruination and Tsunami may be powerful cards but I can’t you will hardly resolve them against any control Deck in the format, not even against Solidarity.

Well this deck runs more must counters than control normally runs counters. If you bait some counters with some creatures then you can play your land hoser, and if they still counter it then get it back with a witness, and if they counter that too well then you have at least pulled out a lot of counters against them. I know when I played against solidarity I was tsunaming every turn with my witnesses.

I don’t really like Burning Wish in a Beatdown Deck

I fail to see the relevance. Now maybe if this deck was a beat down deck that might make some sense, but since it isn't I don't see how it really matters here.

What do you get against Aggro Decks when you already have board advantage(which happens often).

Umm, I guess I would just win since I already successfully controlled them.

Duplicant (Exalted Angel)

Duplicant is very slow. You'll probably be dead from the angel by the time you get it going. Whirlwind or Anarchy(if you got the red) work much faster.

Viridian Shaman (Artifacts)

He is slower than hull breach and you do get a 2/2 body but that's really not all that useful.

Deranged Hermit(Beatdown)

I generally don't need beat down often. I am almost always playing the control and the few decks I do play the agro, normally tsunami or ruination would be better.

Ravenous Baloth(Burn)

If I wanted life gain something like rejuvenate would be better but I'm not about to run that.

FTK(Taking down something like TWR or Meddling Mage)

I am not about to take in FTK out of the main, no way, no how.

Troll Ascetic(against Control)

Ruination or Tsunami is almost always strictly better. Unless they have a crucible, then hull breach would be better cause troll could just be chumped forever until they get a wrath, then you did nothing.

Elvish Lyrics(Survival)

Reverent silence is way faster, the lyrist just gives them time to get a witness

Spore Frog(Aggro)

Ok this one might be mildly useful, however only about one out of 100 games do I ever really want spore frog game one. I am even thinking about cutting him from the SB altogether now cause I think the burning wish can make up for it (madness was one of the biggest reasons to include it, now burning wish gets whirlwind)

Sharpshooter(Survival,Aggro)

Might be nice sometimes, but usually pyroclasm or slice and dice or something of that nature will be better cause it is tempo that rule matches that I need sharpshooter for, and sharpshooter can be slow if I have to tutor for it and still not give it haste.



On a different topic I have found my gem I have been looking for and I wish (pardon the pun) that I had remembered it for last Saturday with my two affinity match ups. Screw Meltdown, Seeds of Innocence is where it’s at!

Seeds of Innocence
Cost: 1GG

Card Type: Sorcery
P/T:
Rules Text (Oracle): Destroy all artifacts. They can’t be regenerated. The controller of each artifact destroyed this way gains life equal to its converted mana cost.

Not only is it pretty cheap, but it is within the main color so you don’t need to worry about double red in one turn or waiting a turn.



Edited By quicksilver on 1114029165

[Peter_Rotten]

Let me just pipe in with two comments:

1. Resolving Tsunami against control is not that hard. Why? Simply because of the 4 Witnesses. You could possibly attempt to cast it up to 5 times! The first Tsunami that I saw was a complete surprise and caught me without a counter - gg. The last game that I played against the current list, I decided to save a counter for it. I countered it but Dave had three Witnesses in hand. gg again. (He also had plenty of other goodies in the yard.)

2. Meltdown is the (insert annoying pseudo-hacker nonsense proving that the card is good) against artifact decks. It was one of the few reasons that Burning Tog could pull games out of its ass. Meltdown for 2 - leaving Ravager with... umm a Myr Enforcer? Does this deck play anything that can handle a single Enforcer? Sure does. But since you have access to green, you may want to go with the card that you cited (the name didn't appear in your cut and paste - can you fix that?)

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Seeds of Innocence.


Why run a single Gaea's Blessing? The only reason to ever run Blessing over Regrowth is when it's in the main. As a Wish target it loses any real advantage. Instead, a much stronger call would be Call of the Herd, which gives you card-advantage beats against Control.

Why run Slice and Dice next to Pyroclasm? It's incredibly redundant. Pick one and make room for Fireball- you want a large, quick finisher with Burning Wish a lot of the time.

[kirdape3]

Do you need such a finisher? The matchup against control and aggro is really favorable with this deck as it is. The problematic matchup is combo - if you can figure out how to beat that, you're set.

I'd actually consider Cranial Extraction in the board.

[quicksilver]

I will admit that the SB was suboptimal and you are probably right.

I don't need caller of the claw cause the land destruction will almost always be better against control.

Here is my reasoning behind why I chose the cards (I do admit that they are suboptimal though):

Blessing was there as a way to remove my opponents cards from their graveyard, not for shuffling my stuff back. But I can't really think when this would be all that great. Against reanimator they are too fast and against madness I got whilwind. One of the main inclusions was for solidarity.

Pyroclasm and slice and dice. I just wanted more versitile options. Slice and dice could also handle 3 and 4 toughness guys late game. Or draw a card if they only got 1 toughness guys. I also needed to side out 5 cards against landstill and that was the fifth one to side in. Sometimes late game I have a real problem with conclaves and it handles them. The naturalizes handle the factories.

And disintegrate is better than fireball cause it handles masticore and eternal dragon. However that wasn't working out all that great.

Cranial Extraction is an idea but I'm not sure how many deck I will run up against that it will be useful that I don't have anything better for. It could help against belcher if they don't have a fast win. Against solidarity tsunami is just better. It could just be randomly useful sometimes. I could run 1 bayou to support it. (With fetches and birds it wouldn't be that big a problem)



Edited By quicksilver on 1114030846

[CynicalSquirrel]

What about something like Decimate? I've always been somewhat fond of the card and it seems like it could few a couple slots at once with its versatility.

I'm just throwing out ideas though. I really like the Wish idea and think if we get the right cards it could be just the thing this deck needs to go over the top.

[cheeseman]

What versatility does Decimate have?

[Slay]

Why are you giving up redundancy for such an overextended toolbox? That's one of the deck's greatest strengths, that it can get answers without using tutors/wishes. To that extent, I think that a 5 or 6 card toolbox would be good for this deck, as that would allow almost 2 full sets of whatever cards you want. It also might be worth it to squeeze a Sharpshooter or a Frog into the maindeck to make room for some more sexy stuff.
-Slay

[Zirilian]

I agree on slay on the wish issue,and I need some sideboard tech against 'Tog,since the deck is pretty popular here in Belgium,and I got beat a few times,so I feel I need some sideboard answers.

[quicksilver]

This deck usually has a very good game against tog and is the easiest control match up out there. But if you still feel you need more may I suggest Burning wish. Tsunamiing or Ruinationing for a one sided amegedon seems pretty good. Cards like phyrexian furnace are also good cause it slows them down in time for you FTKs to be even more of a beating against them.

[Zirilian]

Quicksilver:Post-sb,my matchup is indeed a lot better,furnaces really help,I had 2 on the board,and his 'tog couldn't get bigger than 2/3 :D.

I have one slot open in the sb now that anti-tog tech has been proved obsolete,but I have no idea what to play :(

4 Phyrexian Furnace
4 Naturalize
1 Dwarven Blastminer
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Spore Frog
1 Goblin sharpshooter
1 Dosan the Falling leaf
1 Duplicant

Suggestions would be nice,my meta is kind of random,most of the decks considered DTB are there.

[Zirilian]

Sorry about the doublepost,but I'm afraid noone will notice it if I just edited it in my previous post.

Has using basking rootwalla's been considered for this deck?
I'm testing them,and they're really nice so far :).
One thing I always hated,was my second turn,since I never have chump-blockers exept for a Birds of Paradise or Llanowar elf,which I didn't want to waste (it would destroy your tempo).
I believe rootwalla's help,as a turn 2 chumper.
Also,you can play them at instant speed for some blocking your opponent doesn't see coming.

[quicksilver]

You SB options seem decent. With the troll I'd run it main or not at all. It doesn't really improve any specific match up. As for the rootwallas they are a cute little trick. But against sligh they can just burn it out of the way, and with a survival out, you have plenty of other optios that are normally better. The deck likes to use a lot of it's mana during your turn, and leaving two mana for the rootwalla is kinda like destroying two of your own lands. It is just a small subpar creature with nearly enough discard outlets to make it good.

[worsel]

quicksilver,

How did you find your new land base? Are 2 mountains necessary, or is 1 ok? Would more forests be better? Do you need all 6 search lands?

Have you decided on a new sideboard list yet?

Are there any maindeck changes that you'd make?