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Thread: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

  1. #81
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinious View Post
    The impression I got from reading what the judges posted was that game will be a draw, basically b/c the DCI doesnt incorporate higher level math/theory into their policies.
    Wrong. The game will be a draw, basically because the DCI does incorporate higher level math/theory into their policies... they do this by creating the ruling that forces you to choose a number smaller than infinite.
    Sometimes you have to read between the minds.

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  2. #82
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Are we enjoying this thread in a friendly manner, or is it time for lock-down?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavius The Great View Post
    Germany seems to find me influential. Have you ever Googled "Nourishing Lich"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil Credo View Post
    No, Peter_Rotten, you are the problems.

  3. #83
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukas Preuss View Post
    Wrong. The game will be a draw, basically because the DCI does incorporate higher level math/theory into their policies... they do this by creating the ruling that forces you to choose a number smaller than infinite.
    This is true, infinity is a direction not a value and couldnt be chosen as a number for a loop even if the DCI didnt have this rule. I still think there should be a way that you can achieve the same results as infinite copies without actually having to choose infinity, for example if you named the storm as the number of particles in the universe, its 100% safe to say that that will win you game eventually in this scenario. This kind of defeats the point of having to choose a natural number though, if a number big enough is treated the same as infinity, so maybe this is inpractical and counter-intuitive to do. This situation is so rare (and now obsolete with the printing of Grapeshot) and inconsequential, so I dont forsee any change in this rule.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten View Post
    Are we enjoying this thread in a friendly manner, or is it time for lock-down?
    I think its going okay and doesnt need to be locked, hasnt gotten to flames or anything. Sorry for answering if that was rhetorical, the intarwebs isnt very good at rhetorical questions.

  4. #84
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_Rotten View Post
    Are we enjoying this thread in a friendly manner, or is it time for lock-down?
    I guess that depends on how much you like internet pissing contests.

  5. #85
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ridiculous Hat View Post
    I guess that depends on how much you like internet pissing contests.
    I can piss farther than you.

  6. #86
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Thanks for making me need to piss. And picturing 8 billion copies of Brain Freeze trying to resolve in one's lifetime.

    I spent the entire time while reading this thread (about an hour), trying to actually figure out how to pull off a number of instances that 1) wouldn't get you thrown out of the tournament (or banned) and 2) actually was relevant enough to let the judge know that your option is possible.

    Unfortunately it's looking to come down to the exact ruling most of the judges have given. Since "infinite" is not an option, and 10,000,000,000,000+ copies still has that margin (even if it's one trillionth of a percent) of possible bad luck, there's nothing that can be done.

    To be honest, I think that's complete BS, but it looks like it'll never change, because even if 99.9 repeating is 100 for all intents and purposes when examining it in the infinite grasp, that minute chance that it wouldn't happen when "Infinite" turns to "X", is enough to have us stuck with their decision.

    EDIT: Oh, and to agree with most, Grapeshot >>>>>>> Brain Freeze if you can successfully target your opponent in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by YuanTi View Post
    Slightly off topic, but where is the Nourishing Lich in the DTB Forum?

  7. #87
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Just because it was bugging me, the real proof:

    Define the variable "X":
    -_
    .9 = .9 repeating = x

    Multiply through by 10:
    -_
    .9 * (10) = 10x
    --_
    9.9 = 10x

    Subtract x:
    --_---_
    9.9 - .9 = 10x - x

    Simplify:

    (10x - x) => x(10-1) => 9x

    9 = 9x

    1=X

    But by definition,
    -_
    .9 = x

    So,
    -_
    .9 = x = 1


    Therefore, mathematically, 99.9999....% is the same as 100%.

  8. #88
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Just because it was bugging me, the real proof:

    Define the variable "X":
    -_
    .9 = .9 repeating = x

    Multiply through by 10:
    -_
    .9 * (10) = 10x
    --_
    9.9 = 10x

    Subtract x:
    --_---_
    9.9 - .9 = 10x - x

    Simplify:

    (10x - x) => x(10-1) => 9x

    9 = 9x

    1=X

    But by definition,
    -_
    .9 = x

    So,
    -_
    .9 = x = 1


    Therefore, mathematically, 99.9999....% is the same as 100%.
    ...

    I shall now refer to you in these forums as "Sensei" forevermore. (Bows) Osu.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

  9. #89
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    There are multiple proofs of it, the one I posted earlier is the simplest one, I figured the brevity would make it easiest to understand, but Nightmare's is cooler I gotta say.

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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedlife View Post
    I can piss farther than you.
    That may be true, but I can piss in your eye. And the odds of that are 100%, so I can do it over and over again-- but I'll only announce it once.

  11. #91
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Ok assume they printed this new card:

    Sorcery

    Flip a coin, if heads target opponent takes 1 damage, if tails does nothing.

    Storm
    _______________________________________________

    Ok so my opponent is playing life and is at 500 billion life. I have some infinite combo like topx2 and helm of awakening. I choose to do 500 google storm, then cast that coin flip spell. Does my opponent die or do you have to do it out? The chance that even 51% of the 500 google coming up heads or tails is so freakin low that it is retarded that it wouldn't just be a guranteed win. Now with the brain freeze, blessing example it is virtually the same thing.

  12. #92

    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelfire View Post
    Ok assume they printed this new card:

    Sorcery

    Flip a coin, if heads target opponent takes 1 damage, if tails does nothing.

    Storm
    _______________________________________________

    Ok so my opponent is playing life and is at 500 billion life. I have some infinite combo like topx2 and helm of awakening. I choose to do 500 google storm, then cast that coin flip spell. Does my opponent die or do you have to do it out? The chance that even 51% of the 500 google coming up heads or tails is so freakin low that it is retarded that it wouldn't just be a guranteed win. Now with the brain freeze, blessing example it is virtually the same thing.
    Still have to do it out. Since there is a nonzero chance of it failing, it's not shortcuttable. You or I may know the difference, but it doesn't make sense to require every MTG judge to know statistics and have a graphing calculator handy.
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  13. #93
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    Re: The Impossible Loop - Brain Freeze vs. Gaea's Blessing

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelfire View Post
    Ok assume they printed this new card:

    Sorcery

    Flip a coin, if heads target opponent takes 1 damage, if tails does nothing.

    Storm
    _______________________________________________

    Ok so my opponent is playing life and is at 500 billion life. I have some infinite combo like topx2 and helm of awakening. I choose to do 500 google storm, then cast that coin flip spell. Does my opponent die or do you have to do it out? The chance that even 51% of the 500 google coming up heads or tails is so freakin low that it is retarded that it wouldn't just be a guranteed win. Now with the brain freeze, blessing example it is virtually the same thing.

    Yeah I think you have to think of it like in that movie 'Dumb and Dumber', when Jim Carrey is talking about the possibility of getting with the hot girl...... "So you're saying there's a chance!?!?"
    Survival will be good forever... kinda like a maraschino cherry.

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