Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

  1. #1
    Sweet Sixteenth
    Happy Gilmore's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2004
    Location

    Fairfax City, VA
    Posts

    1,497

    [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    In Paskins article you will find mostly a review of GR for standard, but at the bottom I found this:

    I'll finish up with something completely different.
    This deck is not, in fact, legal for any Constructed format at the moment, but is prompted by Christopher Coppola's article about how Land Tax ought to be unbanned because card advantage is less important in Legacy than tempo, and any Land Tax deck would not be as good as the current big three Goblins/Threshold/Belcher. He supported this with a write-up of matchups between a hypothetical mono-White Land Tax deck and the top decks.
    I thought this was a pretty dubious rationale (and for the sake of Legacy players, Land Tax should be banned because it is not worth the risk of the crushing tedium involved in playing against it).
    Christopher offered an “open challenge” to deckbuilders to come up with a Land Tax deck that is good. I'd have thought that rather than a mono-White deck, the place to start would be with some kind of Blue/White deck, as per the following:

    4 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Thirst for Knowledge
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Land Tax
    3 Scroll Rack
    3 Masticore
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Sphere of Law
    1 Phyrexian Furnace
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Porphyry Nodes
    2 Gaea's Blessing
    2 Chrome Mox
    2 Mox Diamond
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Tundra
    5 Island
    5 Plains
    2 Forest

    This is just version 1.0, and I'm not claiming it is unfair or anything. But if you look at Christopher's examples of how games between a Tax deck and the top decks play out, compared to how this deck would operate, the difference is striking (basically, in his scenario, the Tax deck does nothing except use Land Tax or play Orim's Chant before turn 3. It certainly doesn't use Force of Will or Daze or tutor for a Sphere of Law or Phyrexian Furnace). If you can imagine how tedious a mirror match between two tuned versions of the deck above would be, I think you'll agree that Land Tax should be left well alone.
    What do you guys think about this deck?
    Quote Originally Posted by Krieger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Getsickanddie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Parcher View Post
    Looks like Team Unicorn has about sixteen coming to this.

    What's the term for a plural group of Unicorns? Y'know, like a murder of crows. Well that's what's on it's way.
    ******s?
    While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.
    Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.
    TeaM NOVA for life.

  2. #2
    BMFP
    JohnnyCage's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2007
    Location

    MN
    Posts

    97

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    I think a deck that runs three kill conditions is not gonna win.
    Especially three kill conditons very open to removal.
    Best play in magic: Tundra, vial, - Force vial-Daze force...I win.

  3. #3
    YES WE CAN
    outsideangel's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2005
    Location

    GMU
    Posts

    634

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    It definitely needs some tuning to be Legacy-playable, for sure. Stuff like Gaea's Blessing seems so bad. Also needs Academy Ruins. Reverence would make a better 1-off than Sphere of Law. Where the hell is Brainstorm?
    TEAM DRAGONFORCIA-
    Ghost ridin' the whip like we invented that shit.
    TEAM UNICORN
    We're going for number four!

  4. #4
    Banned

    Join Date

    Oct 2006
    Location

    NoVA
    Posts

    918

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    I dont pay for a SCG premium membership, so Im really glad you posted this. When I saw this list I LOLed, because its just so bad. Hes not even playing Brainstorm, for some reason hes playing TFK, theres only 3 Tax/Scroll, this is just further proof that people who dont actually play Legacy dont know anything about it, which is the reason Land Tax is banned in the first place, WOTC's ignorance of the format. Why would he need Land Tax and Scroll Rack (as 3 ofs...) to play janky E.Tutor-silver-bullets.dec?

    Anyways, I think that deck is God-awful, and he even claims its not unfair (maybe unfair that his opponents get a free win), so its not even remotely close to evidence Land Tax should remain banned, which is the claim he seemed to make.

  5. #5
    (' ' '\( 0 ,o)/''')
    TheInfamousBearAssassin's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2004
    Location

    Northern Virginia
    Posts

    6,627

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    Only 16 blue cards is a danger zone for Force of Will. 12 is right out. This makes me question taking anything else the author has to say seriously.
    For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
    And found I was for endurance made

  6. #6
    Member
    Machinus's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2005
    Location

    Knoxville, TN
    Posts

    1,538

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    I appreciate this response, but Daze doesn't make the deck good. There aren't even any other enablers : /

  7. #7
    You meet the nicest people on a Honda
    Obfuscate Freely's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2003
    Location

    Fredericksburg, Va
    Posts

    1,411

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    That list looks about as well-thought-out as a hasty forum post.

    I hope that the rest of the article was made of better stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by nitewolf9
    I can show up whenever I vomit off my hangover and get rid of the passed out females who's naked bodies will be sprawled out all over my condo. Oh wait, I'm engaged. FUCK.

    Well in that case I can be there at like 2 then, I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmTheBestEver View Post
    I built my car with my bare hands. It has 32 engines and 17 gas pedals so I can go extra-turbo fast. I sold it for a million dollars and then stole it from the guy using my super computer that can hack into any car in the world as long as I built it. Now I speed down the highway listening to Bruce Springsteen at max volume and flipping off other drivers.

    What are regrets?

  8. #8
    Member

    Join Date

    Oct 2003
    Location

    Rochester, NY
    Posts

    1,315

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    The article was actually stellar. He also had the disclaimer that this version of the deck is probably terrible (indeed it's in the c/ped portion), but that a deck like this is entirely possible and would be extraordinarily awful to play against. Like, for reals. I personally would vomit repeatedly at the idea of playing the mirror between the two decks.

  9. #9
    You meet the nicest people on a Honda
    Obfuscate Freely's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2003
    Location

    Fredericksburg, Va
    Posts

    1,411

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    Okay, I won't doubt that the article was good. I've read Paskins' stuff before and enjoyed it.

    However, I don't really see any justification in banning a card because it could create a tedious mirror match. Is Standstill next on the chopping block?
    Quote Originally Posted by nitewolf9
    I can show up whenever I vomit off my hangover and get rid of the passed out females who's naked bodies will be sprawled out all over my condo. Oh wait, I'm engaged. FUCK.

    Well in that case I can be there at like 2 then, I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmTheBestEver View Post
    I built my car with my bare hands. It has 32 engines and 17 gas pedals so I can go extra-turbo fast. I sold it for a million dollars and then stole it from the guy using my super computer that can hack into any car in the world as long as I built it. Now I speed down the highway listening to Bruce Springsteen at max volume and flipping off other drivers.

    What are regrets?

  10. #10
    I clench my fists and yell "anime" towards an uncaring, absent God
    Nihil Credo's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    59°50'59.11" N, 17°34'55.69" E
    Posts

    4,702

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCage View Post
    I think a deck that runs three kill conditions is not gonna win.
    Especially three kill conditons very open to removal.
    Don't forget that Gaea's Blessing is a win condition too. And it has synergy with the other win condition of inducing coma in your opponent.
    YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.

  11. #11
    Banned

    Join Date

    Oct 2006
    Location

    NoVA
    Posts

    918

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    The mirror match would never come up anyways becuase no good player would pick up any deck like this, I dont even wanna think about TWO people playing a pile like this...

  12. #12
    Trop -> Nacatl Pass
    troopatroop's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2003
    Location

    SUNY Geneseo
    Posts

    2,070

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    Imagine how playing two well tuned Stasis decks in the mirror match and how boring that would be? For that reason, I ask Stasis to be banned.

    ...

    ...

    ...

    THE LOGIXXXX!!!!

    ZHEY DOOO NAATHINGG!!!!!

  13. #13
    Old Man Rogue
    scrumdogg's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2003
    Location

    Woosta, Mass.
    Posts

    1,840

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    Quote Originally Posted by troopatroop View Post
    Imagine how playing two well tuned Stasis decks in the mirror match and how boring that would be? For that reason, I ask Stasis to be banned.

    ...

    ...

    ...

    THE LOGIXXXX!!!!

    ZHEY DOOO NAATHINGG!!!!!
    Neither do you, yet you're in the format.... :) Paskins said straight out the deck wasn't tested, it was his inclinational response to Machinus challenge. Paskins is also a red mage, almost exclusively, and not a Legacy player. That he at least acknowledges our format & shows some interest is a positive.
    TL,DR: if you think Saito is ok, check your moral compass. It may be broken. - Spikey Mikey, amen brother

    WE know what the price of progress is (often 8-10 life). - Cait Sith

    A casual stasis deck? You must not really like your friends. Do you play it before or after you pull the wings off of flys and microwave the neighbor's cat? - EwokSlayer

  14. #14

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    I don't particularly like the lack of Brainstorm in a Land Tax deck and I hate the 4 Enlightened Tutors, even in a deck that has so many key things to fish up with them. That said, if we all held our noses every time somebody proposed a non-optimum card mix we'd never see any innovation at all in the meta.

    I lived through the days when people thought I was totally clueless for playing white in a Black/Red/White deck largely for 4 Swords to Plowshares.

  15. #15
    His Power Is Maximum
    T is for TOOL's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2004
    Location

    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts

    1,602

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    The particular decklist used in the article, optimal or not, is irrelevant. The author stated that Land Tax should stay banned because it could potentially create decks that have a tedious mirror match. The author was apparently ignoring the decks in the format that already fit the bill such as Landstill, Solidarity, 43 land.dec, etc. This argument is flimsy at best and ignorant at worst.
    There was a young lady named Valarie
    Who started to count every calorie
    Said her boss in disgust,
    'If you lose half your bust
    then you'll only be worth half your salary.'

  16. #16
    Admin
    Jander78's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2003
    Location

    Redondo Beach, CA
    Posts

    3,081

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    I can see what the author is trying to display with a list like this, but I don't think a boring matchup is good enough argument for a card to stay banned. If the mirror would be "tedious", that is the pilot of each decks fault for choosing to play a deck similar to this. There is a reason why we have time limits per round.
    Monday Night Magic: http://rfimd2000.tripod.com/images/mnm/mondaynight.htm

    Team
    Left
    Field

  17. #17
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2004
    Location

    Italia
    Posts

    62

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    Probably the author just says that, with Land Tax unbanned, a decklist much better than this would come out; and it would be good to the point of everybody wanting either to play it or hate it (remember flash?). This will generate an immense number of mirror matches, with total boring tournaments...

  18. #18

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    blah...
    Maybe i am wrong but i have to say that:

    There are 3 threats about unbanning Land Tax! Is it only me who think that the card is so bad? On the play it does absolute nothing and on the draw you get some basic lands, yeha great!

    Hmmm its hard to say for me, Landtax.deck brings too much problems with it. It requires you to run a lot of basic lands, you have to run things like mox (chrome or diamond) and all that for a card dose sometimes give you 3 basic lands...

    please play a deck with Elder Pine of Jukai or something...
    but i think Weathered Wayfarer is realy a littl bit better than Land Tax

    For me i think the unbanning of Land Tax will change the format as the unbanning of Mind over Matter!
    “Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

  19. #19
    Site Contributor
    Lego's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2004
    Location

    Jamaica Plain, MA
    Posts

    2,016

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    I'm not sure it's a foregone conclusion that the mirror with this deck would be tedious. I often enjoy playing the mirror when I decide to pick up a terrible deck.

  20. #20

    Re: [Article] Paskins on Constructed

    So tedious equals banned today now, huh? What about a Teachings Control mirror in today's standard? Is that not tedious?

    Yes. It is.

    I guess we need to ban Mystial Teachings, Teferi, and Cancel in standard.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)