Going into this past weekend, I was confident that maindeck Mage removal was unnecessary. I didn't expect to see it in any pre-boarded games, and, even if I had, I doubt it would have named the correct card (Dread Return).
Post-board you can bring in Crippling Fatigue and use Vial to blow right through Mage, regardless of what they name.
I guess it's possible that people will start playing more maindeck Mages, or that people will start playing Yixlid Jailers and Withered Wretches at all, but I figure we should cross that bridge when we come to it.
I mean, as Calosso said, Plan B is to Vial in double Dreadnought. There is also a Plan C of attacking with four Narcomoebas.
Worldly Tutor beats out Lim Dul's in this deck, enough so that it's worth going to four colors. Eladamri's Call beats out Lim Dul's because it's better to draw alongside Worldly Tutor, because it's a better topdeck, and because it's easier on the mana (you don't want to be fetching black mana against Goblins).
Worldly is in most cases better than Lim-Dul's Vault, but I disagree with Eladamri's Call. Although it's potentially a stronger topdeck than LDV if you're ready to combo right there, I think the fact that LDV will set up your draws and grab disruption and the like is more important.Worldly Tutor beats out Lim Dul's in this deck, enough so that it's worth going to four colors. Eladamri's Call beats out Lim Dul's because it's better to draw alongside Worldly Tutor, because it's a better topdeck, and because it's easier on the mana (you don't want to be fetching black mana against Goblins).
Also, I think it would depend on the person's build that would decide such a thing. Personally, my build is very heavy in black, so fetching Underground Seas occur a lot more often than fetching a Tropical Island.
Having setup spells in both green and black is poor, because it means you will often need access to all four colors, even against, say, Goblins. This makes Wasteland a much bigger problem than it otherwise is.
Besides that, drawing both Worldly and LDV in an opening hand is awful against almost any deck.
Yes, LDV can sometimes set up multiple draw steps, but it's often just a two-mana Vampiric Tutor that strains your manabase. Eladamri's Call is an instant-speed Demonic Tutor, in colors you want to fetch for, which is plenty good enough to be my choice over LDV.
In my list of cephalid breakfast I main decked Counter top which was very good against combo and gro decks. In retrospect I should have put the counterbalances in the board.
Sensei's divining top is very good especially against Deadguy varients. I strongly believe that abeyance should be in the main deck because it improves the goblins match-up and it is still strong against combo and control.
Absolute Law against Goblins seems infy times better with the Ghoul Kill. Although Dragon's Breath falls off, once you get Ghoul in play, you can most likely block out a Piledriver and you can swing through any amount of goblins.
Hi All,
I've been reading here for a while now and I build a deck based of the 'inside scoop' version.
I decided to run maindeck the full 4 bridges, narcomoeba's and a single Flame-kin Zealot as the kill, assuming all hate to be SB. I ran no Vials, preferring Daze, more Therapy and 1 more land. That was a mistake I think.
The very small and badly organised tournament showed 1 important thing, this deck (as I build it) does not beat Angel-Stax. Which I had to play twice...
Goblins is rather close and exciting to play against, a lot of pressure but very winnable. Ichorid is just plain slower on average.
The Vials are needed and with Tutors which put cards in hand they become even more important. Don't be me, do not cut them.
I did like the Lim-Dûls Vault though. Pitches to FOW, combines brilliantly with Brainstorm and pretty much always finds what you need, creature or anything else. 1 play involved me vs Goblins, the 3rd game. Next I would die, eot I use the LDV, finding Brainstorm, Illusionist and Needle. Use Brainstorm to draw all, Needle the Sharpshooter to prevent nastiness, cast Illsusionist and go off. It all just fitted, no cards left, 2 life left and his Mogg Fanatics also Needled. That was a great 3rd game, fighting through 2 Fanatics, Sharpshooter and Tormod's Crypt.
But vs Stax this decks feels dead. Trinisphere makes the cantrips (or Tutors) slow, adds mana to 'free' spells like FOW, C. Therapy and Dread Return. Ghostly Prison makes attacking with multiple tokens nigh impossible. Any SB suggestions here?
How about four Tarmogoyfs instead of two Dreadnoughts in the Ghoul versions? The characteristic setting ability works even in the graveyard, and the deck contains every traditional card type, so they're good for a combined 24/28. You're already running green, and the Goyf is pretty awesome all by itself; it certainly eclipses Dreadnought in this regard (not requiring a second copy and a Vial to be a giant beatstick). The biggest issue is obviously the two extra slots it requires.
Also, as out of the four of you, none ran it, I assume you thought this through: why no Street Wraith? The slots are effectively "free", it pumps Ghoul, and it interacts positively with both Worldly Tutor and Portent.
Is a 3 / 1 mix of Nomads / Shamans better than 4 / 1? Why? While it feels natural, I don't see any logical reason why having equal amounts of your two combo pieces (en-Kors and Illusionists) should necessarily be the optimal configuration.
SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent
That's actually a pretty good idea as it gives you an alternative win condition in the maindeck better than the Dreadnought outlet. However, I think the concern would be lack of space. The combo already requires a lot of slots, and when you factor in disruption/protection and draw/tutor, it's rather difficult to fit the extra 2 Tarmogoyfs in.How about four Tarmogoyfs instead of two Dreadnoughts in the Ghoul versions? The characteristic setting ability works even in the graveyard, and the deck contains every traditional card type, so they're good for a combined 24/28. You're already running green, and the Goyf is pretty awesome all by itself; it certainly eclipses Dreadnought in this regard (not requiring a second copy and a Vial to be a giant beatstick). The biggest issue is obviously the two extra slots it requires.
Randomly drawing into combo pieces is really bad. I remember when I tested Street Wraith in the deck I was often frustrated by cantripping into a Ghoul or Dragon Breath, and being forced to waste a Therapy on myself.Also, as out of the four of you, none ran it, I assume you thought this through: why no Street Wraith? The slots are effectively "free", it pumps Ghoul, and it interacts positively with both Worldly Tutor and Portent.
It doesn't have anything to do with the pieces being equal amounts. I think it's just the fact that you already have 6-8 tutors to find them, so the 5th en-kor isn't necessary.Is a 3 / 1 mix of Nomads / Shamans better than 4 / 1? Why? While it feels natural, I don't see any logical reason why having equal amounts of your two combo pieces (en-Kors and Illusionists) should necessarily be the optimal configuration.
If you are using Lim Dul's Vault, Shuko is worth increasing that slot to 5x just so the deck doesn't have to fetch for white. Shuko + Illusionist vs Tormod's Crypt also lets you put 4 Narcomoeba on the board and then equip one of those Narcomoebas for a 4 turn clock.
Edit: Also, the deck switches in between the Ghoul and Kiki kill a lot, and Street Wraith is just a nuisance with the Kiki kill in the deck.
Are there any compelling reasons NOT to play this deck at the moment? It seems virtually immune to removal, plays disruption, tutoring, and draw... much like Flash. It wins turn 2-3 a strong portion of the time, and can slow roll you just as well.
The deck seems good enough to make me wanna shell out the bills to buy it. What are it's weak matchups? It only really seems like Sui/Deadguy builds would be annoying. Is it more lackluster than it seems?
Doesn't Crypt seem awfully good against it also?
Early one morning while making the round,
I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down;
I went right home and I went to bed,
I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head.
Lightning Greaves can't target the same creature over and over again because it makes it untargetable.If goblins is giving you trouble, why not swap the shuko for lightning greaves? It costs 1 more mana, yeah, but it serves the same function and more.
And nobody in their right mind would ever think of putting Tormod's Crypt back into their sideboard? Honestly, don't be surprised to see nearly the amount of hate Flash saw coming up within the next few big events.Yeah, but no one plays crypt anymore since it doesn't entirely neuter Tarmogoyf.
However, the entire reasoning behind using Shuko is because it can be used by itself with Cephalid Illusionist. If you have 2 creatures in play with this deck and haven't won the game, something is going terribly wrong.
re: goblins matchup: Absolute Law?
When in doubt, mumble.
When in trouble, delegate.
also the deck loses to Leyline, the new SUPER populat gravehater...
The problme theis deck has it it scoops to gravehate, serious grave hate, not light stuff, but Crypt, Extripate, Leyline, Planer Void, etc. all nerf it...
Are you kidding me? The deck is good but no where as powerful as flash was. This isn't flash 2.0. And no it isn't immune to removal at all, and it's still gy combo so things like crypt, extirpate, leyline etc.. still work. So does enchantment hate for the ghoul combo. Don't get me wrong the deck is very solid, but I think it's being overhyped a bit right now.
For graveyard hate don't forget that cephalid breakfast does play counterspells, also spells like leyline of the void, planar void, and crypt there is a creature called stern proctor you can search up for.
@Frogboy
Absolute law only works in the ghoul version, because in the kiki version you cannot target hussar w/ kiki.
In the goblins match-up I bring in abeyance because it stops gempalm and fanatic.
That leaves extirpate which can be a problem but you can hard cast all the creatures w/ vial in the kiki version.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)