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Thread: Would control be viable in legacy were it not for storm based combo?

  1. #21
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    Re: Would control be viable in legacy were it not for storm based combo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    In any case, as communities like The Source grow and span continents and people from across the world share tech, eventually the two metagames should balance back out. After all, it -is- still the same game, same rules, same card pool.
    This may be true, but it also might not be. Poker has globalized to an insane extent, and players from certain areas still play differently (or at least that's the stereotype). Still, I'm glad to see a healthy discussion on the topic.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Would control be viable in legacy were it not for storm based combo?

    Remember, though, people don't always play what's good. In fact, I'd hazard a guess and say that most Legacy players don't actually play whatever is 'objectively' the 'best' deck every time they go to a tournament.

    Deck choice is influenced by what we like, what our friends like, what we're comfortable with, what we've practiced with, who we're testing against, what cards we have and can borrow in time, and a whole slew of other variables.

    Example: I played Ichorid at the last two tournaments I attended. I was fully convinced, at the time, that Breakfast was the best deck in the format. But I like Ichorid. I enjoy playing it, and I'm pretty comfortable with it. Also, I could get it together without having to borrow cards from twenty different people, as I would have had to do with Breakfast.

    I'm willing to play Ichorid even knowing it's not the 'best', because playing it is fun. On the other hand, I wouldn't sit through a Landstill or Solidarity mirror if you paid me. Even if they were the 'best' decks in the format, I probably still wouldn't play them because I just don't enjoy it.

    In a format like Legacy, where the 'best' deck is rarely apparent, deck choice usually comes down to a matter of taste. There could be significantly more UW Landstill in Europe simply because more people over there like the deck.
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  3. #23

    Re: Would control be viable in legacy were it not for storm based combo?

    Quote Originally Posted by outsideangel View Post
    Remember, though, people don't always play what's good. In fact, I'd hazard a guess and say that most Legacy players don't actually play whatever is 'objectively' the 'best' deck every time they go to a tournament.

    Deck choice is influenced by what we like, what our friends like, what we're comfortable with, what we've practiced with, who we're testing against, what cards we have and can borrow in time, and a whole slew of other variables.

    Example: I played Ichorid at the last two tournaments I attended. I was fully convinced, at the time, that Breakfast was the best deck in the format. But I like Ichorid. I enjoy playing it, and I'm pretty comfortable with it. Also, I could get it together without having to borrow cards from twenty different people, as I would have had to do with Breakfast.

    I'm willing to play Ichorid even knowing it's not the 'best', because playing it is fun. On the other hand, I wouldn't sit through a Landstill or Solidarity mirror if you paid me. Even if they were the 'best' decks in the format, I probably still wouldn't play them because I just don't enjoy it.

    In a format like Legacy, where the 'best' deck is rarely apparent, deck choice usually comes down to a matter of taste. There could be significantly more UW Landstill in Europe simply because more people over there like the deck.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Would control be viable in legacy were it not for storm based combo?

    I couldn't agree more with you saying that Landstill has been a victim of negative hype.
    I can't speak for the whole of Europe but where I'm playing (Denmark) the meta has become 50-60% control. Last tourney I went to it was 3 of 4 decks would be a Landstill, Fish or Stax variant. The meta used to be almost 100% aggro and no combo at all. Then as people began to realize that beating the shit out of aggro is teh tech in an aggro meta, aggro has been hated out by TruffleShuffle (which is like a DTB here) and Landstill decks packing 10+ removal.
    ATM Landstill is the DTB while decks like TES and CRET Belcher are completely unknown and unplayed. Landstill right now includes oldschool UW landstill with DoJ, UWb landstill and 4C landstill. But eventually people will probably grow tired of playing control all the time. Playing in a turney with control facing nothing but control except maybe a single goblins should bore most people enough to shift deck. And the very few people who do play combo plays old subpar decks like SpringTide, IggyPop and Bg belcher with spoils. Oh and BTW noone plays ******** either.

    It seems that the meta in both US and Europe are extreme with combo ruling US and control ruling Europe. Americans need to pick up Landstill and Europeans need to play good decks that aren't control I guess.
    But then again the European meta is very diverse and this might not at all apply to Germany/France/Monaco/What ever.
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  5. #25

    Re: Would control be viable in legacy were it not for storm based combo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    Chess used to have its openings and midgame theories vastly divided by regions, but the vast sharing of modern chess information thanks first to books and then to the internet has diminished this. While Magic is a vastly more complicated and intricate game and will thereby take longer to undergo the same process, this is still the most likely course of events.
    Not to pull the thread off course, but Chess is a fixed game with fixed rules and assets. Magic is an ever evolving game in which both the rules and the assets change remarkably over time. I would not be surprised to see the overall Legacy Magic meta stay fairly wild and woolly with vast regional differences as different communities pickup on and use different concepts depending on what is in favor in the local meta.

    Now, if a truly world-beating deck could be developed, a beat all comers with no questions asked, then this would likely change. However WoTC and the DCI would put that deck out of commission fairly quckly once they figured out what the problem was (Balance, Necropotence, etc) and banned the enabling card(s).

    I think WoTC made an enormous mistake a dozen years ago when they decided not to refine the game of Magic and make it as close to perfect as possible in a relatively limited card set. That's what would have made it comparable to Chess and possibly to survive for a thousand years.

    The long vision would have been make more Magic players to grow the business, not make more cards to sell to the same limited community for a generation.

  6. #26
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    Re: Would control be viable in legacy were it not for storm based combo?

    If storm based combo was not in Legacy, then control would be very viable in the format. I believe aggro decks will be on the rise, which would lead to more control decks in the format.

    I believe if this scenario every comes to reality, then the best deck in Legacy would be hands down R/W Rifter. Wow, that would be pretty awesome.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Would control be viable in legacy were it not for storm based combo?

    Then we all play Anwar's "Sixteen Candles" deck.

  8. #28
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    Re: Would control be viable in legacy were it not for storm based combo?

    Quote Originally Posted by nickrit2000 View Post
    If storm based combo was not in Legacy, then control would be very viable in the format. I believe aggro decks will be on the rise, which would lead to more control decks in the format.

    I believe if this scenario every comes to reality, then the best deck in Legacy would be hands down R/W Rifter. Wow, that would be pretty awesome.
    Well, so far, the most successful White Control deck that might be viable in this current metagame would probably be the newer Wombat builds with the "Thresh" plan. Rifter is probably better against Landstill and more heavy aggro decks like Goblins. Of course, Wombat's Combo match-up is probably about 50/50....
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