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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #9241

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    @everyone
    Lots of Spirit of the Labyrinth in the builds. Was it good or did it reflect that a lot of DnT like the rest of Legacy players at the event were not Legacy regulars but people picking up the third position because they had a little Legacy experience?

    @Medea_
    2 Vryn Wingmare, very interesting. Was it significant? When was it good and when was it bad?

    Thoughts on the sideboard?

  2. #9242
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Koke_MTG View Post
    Next step is give Dire Fleet Daredevil a try. When testing it do you guys consider it as a 3 drop to build a manabase? I mean, how often are you hurry of mana to give it value, how often is just a body for you etc etc?
    I try not to cast it without getting value, so it's generally a 3 drop. It's a tricky card to play because sometimes you're supposed to just cast it instead of waiting for a target, and it can be hard to figure out whether you're in that spot or not.

    Out of Vial it's a 2, so it kinda averages out to be a 2.5.

  3. #9243

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Planning on streaming at 6:30 eastern! I'll be playing RW D&T and briefly looking at some decklists from the Open. https://www.twitch.tv/deathandtaxesftw

  4. #9244

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    So last night I spent quite some time sharing my thoughts on the various SCG Open/Legacy Classic decklists. Here's the link to the Youtube video.

    @redtwister
    Wingmare #2 has been pretty good thus far.

  5. #9245
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I got another 5-0 with a Daredevil list last night. I'm 100% sold on the card at this point. I think cutting a SfM for the Daredevil is a reasonable choice, they play similar roles.

  6. #9246

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I got another 5-0 with a Daredevil list last night. I'm 100% sold on the card at this point. I think cutting a SfM for the Daredevil is a reasonable choice, they play similar roles.
    Interesting. What quantity do you like 1-2?

  7. #9247
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I think you want 2. It's a good card.

  8. #9248

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    The guy on the Grixis Delver thread who just won the MODO challenge was also impressed with the pirate from his finals opponent.
    I was thinking of playing BW after getting most of the DNT cards but it looks like I might have to try RW instead. (Also I really want to bounce PKN with Karakas ^_^)
    Do people still think Pontiff is needed compared to other red options like Sparkmage or Lavamancer etc? I guess killing TNN makes it still one of the best removal options.

  9. #9249
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    The guy on the Grixis Delver thread who just won the MODO challenge was also impressed with the pirate from his finals opponent.
    I was thinking of playing BW after getting most of the DNT cards but it looks like I might have to try RW instead. (Also I really want to bounce PKN with Karakas ^_^)
    Do people still think Pontiff is needed compared to other red options like Sparkmage or Lavamancer etc? I guess killing TNN makes it still one of the best removal options.
    Medea can probably articulate this much better than I can: the red cards you list have similar applications (and overlap), but aren't 100% identical. One of those "a square may be a rectangle but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square." Pontiff's biggest upside is the one-time effect of obliterating your opponent's x/1 blockade. Mirror match, TNN, and occasional Elves boardstates. There are other scenarios like unflipped delvers, annoying baleful strixes, post-combat x/2 killings, etc. Sparkmage/Lavamancer are recursive removal with legs. They cannot wipe the table in 1 fell swoop, but certainly push board control in your favor (fair matchups).

    Is BW superior to RW or RWb (ie; Madea includes Pontiff with RW lists)? How do splashes compare to mono-W? Madea's most recent Thraban article about RW did a very solid job expressing how splashes are redistributing matchup % from A and moving it to B. So while a particular matchup may get better, you can assume something else is likely getting weaker. You're gaining vulnerabilities by splashing a color in the first place in exchange for a non-white game-winning card. Splashes don't make the deck strictly better nor is there a perfect list in general.

  10. #9250

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    @Warden You did a fine job there. I'll write an article on this someday, but the way I envision each change to a decklist is by a series of matchup sliders. Each change you make influences your percentages against every deck in the format. There is rarely a true "best" version of the deck, but you hedge for certain things you want to beat at any given time and try to come up with the build you think ends up with the most overall positive matchups against what you expect to play. The changes you make often "cascade," so to speak, and lead to other changes.

    Pontiff is a stupid good haymaker card that really increases your chances at beating Elves and TNN decks like Stoneblade. Playing a Pontiff does require some degree of commitment to it (if you actually want to deploy it on curve consistently), often doing something like maxing out on Caverns if you are already on a RW build. A choice like that leads to worse matchups against Wasteland decks and makes some of your true white cards harder to cast.

    One thing you have to decide is how greedy you'd like to get in your splashes. Some people are happy enough splashing a Pontiff off 3 Cavern of Souls in an otherwise monowhite build. Other people want to run a Scrubland to fetch up. It's all about how much you think the card is needed, how early you want to deploy it, and how willing you are to wait and deploy it off a vial.

  11. #9251

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    By popular demand, I'm going to stream with Dire Fleet Daredevil tonight. I'm planning on starting at 7:00 EST. If you have any thoughts on what the list should look like based on your testing, feel free to share them here.

    Edit: List will look something like this:

    Lands
    3 Cavern of Souls
    3 Karakas
    3 Plains
    3 Plateau
    3 Rishadan Port
    4 Wasteland
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Arid Mesa
    2 Flooded Strand
    1 Windsweapt Heath
    Creatures
    3 Flickerwisp
    4 Mother of Runes
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    2 Magus of the Moon
    1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
    2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
    1 Palace Jailer
    Spells
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Aether Vial
    1 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    Sideboard
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Path to Exile
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
    1 Mirran Crusader
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Leonin Relic-Warder
    1 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Orzhov Pontiff

  12. #9252

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Brian Mears in Philly rockin WW DnT in Round 7. Took game 1 versus Lands.

  13. #9253

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by redtwister View Post
    Brian Mears in Philly rockin WW DnT in Round 7. Took game 1 versus Lands.
    He looked pretty good doing it, and played well.

    I do think he should have gotten out of game 2 faster than he did. He was in fairly good shape (though not guaranteed) to get game 3 if it didn't go to time.

  14. #9254
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisCunningham View Post
    Target your Dread of Night, hold priority, make your Baleful Strix a White creature. :P
    This. I'm in tears laughing at the sheer awesome level being displayed by this gambit.

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  15. #9255

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Hey folks,

    My regularly scheduled stream times are going to be Monday and Wednesdays at ~7:00 PM Eastern time. This week I'll be playing the Dire Fleet Daredevil list again. I'll post when I stream outside of those scheduled times. Does anyone want me to post when I go live on Mondays and Wednesdays as well as a reminder?

    xoxoxox -Phil

  16. #9256

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Moctzal View Post
    He looked pretty good doing it, and played well.

    I do think he should have gotten out of game 2 faster than he did. He was in fairly good shape (though not guaranteed) to get game 3 if it didn't go to time.
    Agree that he generally played well, but I was practically screaming at my computer telling him to scoop that game two. It was fine to play through until the Relic Warder and Thalia died, but once they bit it and both Punishing Fire and Loam were running at full speed he was at effectively zero percent to win the game. Game three or in untimed rounds I am fine playing that out (look for mistakes, see which sideboard cards get Loamed over, etc.), but he would have needed a hand of 3 or 4 Surgicals, then stacked his deck after that to even have a chance. It also got them into some weird spots where the teammates were having a debate about how to pay for Tabernacle and how to use Port using time that they just didn't have room to play around with. I think he started pretty well in game three, and with just a little bit of extra breathing room or a few extra turns could have squeaked out a win. If that game starts with 11 minutes on the clock instead of 7 it is completely different.

  17. #9257
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    Hey folks,

    My regularly scheduled stream times are going to be Monday and Wednesdays at ~7:00 PM Eastern time. This week I'll be playing the Dire Fleet Daredevil list again. I'll post when I stream outside of those scheduled times. Does anyone want me to post when I go live on Mondays and Wednesdays as well as a reminder?

    xoxoxox -Phil
    Myself (and maybe many people) get The Source notices in a weekly or daily digest, so the notices generally appear after they are relevant. You are starting to notify me a little more than I would like since I am getting the notifications in so many places, but probably there are not so many people in the world subscribed to every single D&T infostream. Anyway, posting this kind of thing to Twitter or Facebook or Discord seems to make more sense to me than posting here. Just my 2 cents.

  18. #9258
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by geneyquakes View Post
    Agree that he generally played well, but I was practically screaming at my computer telling him to scoop that game two. It was fine to play through until the Relic Warder and Thalia died, but once they bit it and both Punishing Fire and Loam were running at full speed he was at effectively zero percent to win the game.
    Sounds like he was just one Sanctum Prelate short of handling it.
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  19. #9259
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisCunningham View Post
    Myself (and maybe many people) get The Source notices in a weekly or daily digest, so the notices generally appear after they are relevant. You are starting to notify me a little more than I would like since I am getting the notifications in so many places, but probably there are not so many people in the world subscribed to every single D&T infostream. Anyway, posting this kind of thing to Twitter or Facebook or Discord seems to make more sense to me than posting here. Just my 2 cents.
    Twitch notices work pretty well.
    If you want to know when medea is streaming, you have to follow his channel.

  20. #9260

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Not sure if anyone noted this, but Dire Fleet Daredevil works even if you have Grafdigger's Cage in play. Exiles the spell from the graveyard, then allows us to cast it.

    Not sure if that matters for us, since Rest in Peace is still the best choice, but thought I would point that out.

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