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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #10281

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    Hey folks, I wrote a generic Magic theory article this week. Check it out: http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1956
    For me, the interesting idea of these critical cards is why they are so critical. Why would people play a deck, where strength in the game depends so much on 4 cards in their whole list?

    I think it's because these decks warp their whole gameplan to accomodate this critical card, because it is so ridiculously powerful. D&T without vial is a slow, subpar creature deck with a warped mana curve in a format filled with broken combo, streamlined disrupting tempo and the summum of grindy control decks. But the reason it'd be that is vial: if you run a card like that, the majority of nonland cards in your deck needs to be creatures and you can't afford to play too many lands either. You can't diversify your gameplan with planeswalkers, disruption and card filtering, because the only way to max out the value of vial is to cram as much creatures as you can in the deck.

    Similarly for most chalice decks: you forego all 1 CMC spells in exchange for this disruption tech that nerfs the majority of cards in most commonly played decks. But if you leave out the chalice, you're just building an inferior aggro or prison deck.

    It's different for most combo decks. Their whole gameplan revolves around assembling that combo (or a few, very similar combo options). They can't really rely on hopefully getting that one 4-of, because if they don't find it, they're not doing anything. They have to stuff their deck with tutors and other methods to find that combo, or build in sufficient redundancy by including similar enablers. Omnitell is extremely reliant on Show and Tell for instance, but this is not a critical card for mulliganing decisions because a big chunk of their deck consists of cantrips that can help find it. Elves is not reliant on either zenith, glimpse or order, because any of those can enable their combo.

    I also don't agree with exploration for lands. Their deck design is obviously warped towards the nonbasic lands theme, but they have multiple support cards for that (exploration, but also gamble, loam, manabond, mox). If exploration were the critical card, lands decks would probably play 4 manabond as well.

    Tying this back to the original question: why do these decks do that? Why don't they take a similar approach as the combo decks I mentioned? The reason is, I think, threefold. First, cards like chalice and vial are quite unique. It's very difficult to find proper surrogates for them to increase the consistency of opening with them. Second, opening with them is critical in itself. Most combo decks don't need to go off turn 1. But a chalice or vial after turn 1 is significantly worse. And that brings us to three: these cards interact very poorly with themselves, other than the redundancy in case they fail to stick (around). You can't use vial with another vial. Two vials can be good, but typically only if that one vial is already not doing enough and you have a surplus of creatures. An extra vial drawn is one less creature to vial in. An extra chalice doesn't even contribute anything beyond hedging against spot removal. Occasionally you can play it for another number, but those situations are very niche and it's not the general strategy these decks wants to take.

    I think two and three are the biggest problems. An example from the past would be eldrazi with 4 thorns. Thorn served as an extra piece of disruption to prop up chalice. But these lists were very weak to any deck not hurt sufficiently by this sort of disruption (like D&T), partially because their threat density was reduced. Similarly, an 8 vial deck would have to cut creatures or other key pieces and would be hurt substantially by drawing excess vials.

  2. #10282
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    'How many of these cards would you play if there were no 4-card limit' is a question I like thinking about and the answer for Aether Vial is definitely not 'exactly 4'. An 8 (+?) Vial deck would cut lands for the Vials and would just probably just try not to actually cast many spells not called 'Aether Vial'. You don't mind drawing your third Aether Vial when the rest of your hand is stacked because you play so few lands.

    It would probably feel more like Lands does in that it would get to 'do a powerful but linear thing reliably g1' then g2 bring in stuff to fight 'Vial-hate' Pithing Needle, Chalice on 1, etc.

  3. #10283

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Got 6th at a local Legacy 2k.

    11 Plains
    1 Horizon Canopy
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    3 Karakas

    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Remorseful Cleric

    4 Flickerwisp
    2 Mirran Crusader
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Palace Jailer

    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    SIDEBOARD
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Path to Exile
    2 Council's Judgment
    2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Leonin Relic-Warder
    1 Walking Ballista
    1 Grafdigger's Cage

    The maindeck Cleric and the sideboard Cage were only included as a reaction to the many graveyard decks that I saw while scanning the room. Ultimately, the Cage probably should have been something else, but I was happy enough with the Cleric for this tournament. Did not keep sideboard notes, but I have a basic idea of what went in/out each game.

    Round 1 - BR Reanimator W
    My opponent's first paper match of Legacy. He knew what his deck was supposed to do, but was completely unfamiliar with my deck or what my cards did. I won an easy game 1, lost game 2 due to a borderline hand ruined by multiple discard spells, and won a somewhat grindy game 3 off of a late Rest in Peace backed up by a StP on a Griselbrand that had already been reanimated.

    Round 2 - Punishing Maverick L
    I won game 1 with a stock Flickerwisp+Recruiter army backed up by a Mom fogging his Jitte. Unfortunately, his draws in games two and three were extremely good, and I was locked out by Mom protecting a Stoneforge with 2+ pieces of removal. I definitely kept a sketchy slow hand in game 2, and I didn't have time to cast the Rest in Peace that never would have done anything anyway based on his draws. I ended up swapping the RIPs for Surgicals in game 3, because Punishing Fire is the only GY card that I saw that I cared about, but I did not draw it either way. I'm not sure if this is entirely right, but 8/8 Knights are rarely my problem against Maverick, and I've had many draws where spending 2 mana to cast RIP is too slow.

    Round 3 - UWr Stoneblade W
    He mulled to 6 game 1, and I assume he kept it off of the strength of the two TNNs that he played. Unfortunately, he didn't have removal for my Mom, and Stoneforge fetching a Sword and multiple Flickerwisps meant that I won the race handily. Game two was a slaughter, as he needed to cantrip for lands and I had a Plains+Port+Wasteland+Thalia opener that kept him out of the game for many turns.

    Round 4 - TES W
    I play against this guy regularly in weekly tournaments, so I knew what I was in for. Game 1 he Massacres my first Thalia+Mom, and goes off quickly afterwards, but his Ad Nauseam was abysmal, and the cantrips that he followed up with did not help him either. He passes the turn at 1 life. I play a second Thalia, he responds with a very small Empty to stall. Thalia 2 kills two goblins, Thalia 3 kills another two, and Batterskull kills a fifth. When he passes the turn, I StP his remaining 3 tokens to get in the lethal attack. Game 2 involves some drama regarding a post-opening hand deck check where my opponent saw a turn 1 kill, but regardless I was met with a lethal Tendrils before my second turn. Game 3 was pretty incredible, though. I mulled to 6, keeping a Port+Wasteland hand with Cleric + Cage, plus a third hate piece which I do not remember because it was Thoughtseized on turn 1. I draw many lands, while my opponent draws a lot of cards that don't kill me, so my Cleric gets in for 2 repeatedly. Eventually I draw a Stoneforge to protect from an Empty kill. When he goes off, my Batterskull and Cage are all that remain, but he cannot get enough storm to Wish for Tendrils. In the end, he Wishes for Grapeshot to kill my germ, hit me for 5 putting me to 15, and follows up with 20 Goblins. With my 8 lands out, I top deck a Recruiter, tutor for Walking Ballista, and equip the Batterskull. While I likely would have been able to stabilize with what I had available, my opponent made it much easier for me by messing up the combat math and attacked with all of his goblins. My block left me at 1 life and left him dead to my subsequent attack + Ballista for 4.

    More combo players should cross-train by playing limited and stop losing to combat math, but I'll happily take the wins when I know how power and toughness work.

    Round 5 - TES W
    Game 1 was an easy win thanks to mana denial and a slow hand from his side. Game two I lost to a Lethal tendrils before I had anything to say about it. I don't remember much about game 3, but I believe it was a similar to game 1. I did overextend into a Massacre at one point, but Canonist ensured I would get one more attack in to leave him at 2. He has to pass back to me after his Massacre turn. I missed a Mom attack earlier in the game that would have put him at 1, and this proved to be nearly deadly - I drew a Walking Ballista earlier in the game, but I didn't draw the 4th land to kill him on the spot after his Massacre turn. I instead play the Mom that I drew. The next turn, I port one of his lands, and he fetches to 1 and goes off. Luck was on my side as he was one mana off of a Past in Flames Tendrils kill, and he had to go for 16 goblins instead. The Ballista in my hand finished the job.

    2nd seed going into the top 8
    RO8 - Bryant Cook concludes my TES gauntlet L
    I had an early Thalia, which he answered with a Massacre, and I won off of another poor Ad Nauseam that left him with very few mana sources and 2 life. Left with no choice, he flips his 4th Tutor/Wish and we go to game two. Unfortunately, I lose the sideboarded games pretty quickly. I was able to Surgical his LEDs in response to an Ad Nauseam in game two, but his flips were much better this time around, and he went off with ease. Game three, my Stoneforge got Thoughtseized, and I had no tools to live through 14 goblins.

    Overall, I liked my list for the day, though I am definitely starting to wish I owned Chalices. I find myself against TES much more than ANT recently, meaning that having a pile of 2-drop hate pieces isn't good enough anymore, and the graveyard hate is rarely more than a nuisance. I need a tool to live to that second turn, and having hate that lives through Massacre is also a huge plus when we have much fewer Plains-less draws nowadays. The only matchup I can think of where I'd really miss Canonist vs Chalice is Omnitell, which is an uncommon matchup where Canonist is not exactly a slam dunk anyway. I'm excited to see how Chalice improves the Miracles matchup as well.

    I sadly still haven't cast a Ballista meaningfully in a fair matchup, but I won two storm matches off of its utility as a burn spell. I was unsure of whether to board it in for these matches, but I saw the potential both as a burn spell and as a tool against the smaller Empty draws. So far, I'm convinced, and I'm heavily considering playing it in the main deck over the Cleric against the average field. The Cleric was a singleton Brightling right up until I registered the deck, but I have not been impressed by it, especially given that I am stubborn and am reluctant to play a 24th land. It often gets stuck in my hand, has been mediocre in my non-Vial draws, and isn't Recruitable. I doubt I'll be playing it for the foreseeable future unless the meta changes significantly, and if so, I'm likely to only do so if I can find room for 2 Brightling and the 24th land all at once.

  4. #10284

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    'How many of these cards would you play if there were no 4-card limit' is a question I like thinking about and the answer for Aether Vial is definitely not 'exactly 4'. An 8 (+?) Vial deck would cut lands for the Vials and would just probably just try not to actually cast many spells not called 'Aether Vial'. You don't mind drawing your third Aether Vial when the rest of your hand is stacked because you play so few lands.

    It would probably feel more like Lands does in that it would get to 'do a powerful but linear thing reliably g1' then g2 bring in stuff to fight 'Vial-hate' Pithing Needle, Chalice on 1, etc.
    I'm not so sure. If you could play more than 4 vial, you'd probably go to at least 5-6, but more than that? The problem is that, by cutting lands in favor of extra vial effects, you weaken many powerful non-creature options the deck has and may even need now, such as equipment, council's judgment, cataclysm, planeswalkers... You could think of an all-in creature deck like tribal humans, but you'd be exposed to the weakness of such an archetype. Cutting back too much on noncreature mana also weakens a card like plow or path.


    Played a 45-ish player tournament today and got first (after a prize split, so no half finals were played) with BW taxes.

    R1: BR reanimator 1-2
    R2: Goblins 2-1
    R3: D&T 2-0
    R4: D&T 2-1
    R5: D&T 2-0
    R6: Lands 2-1
    QF: Big red 2-0
    HF: Prize split, two players leave
    F: Burn 2-0

    List:

    Land(23):
    4 Plains
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Windswept Heath
    3 Karakas
    2 Cavern of Souls
    2 Scrubland
    4 Wasteland
    3 Rishadan Port

    Creatures(27):
    3 Mother of Runes
    1 Judge's Familiar
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Remorseful Cleric
    1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    1 Walking Ballista
    1 Serra Avenger
    3 Flickerwisp
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Mirran Crusader
    1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Orzhov Pontiff

    Other(11):
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Aether Vial
    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice

    Sideboard(15):
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Cataclysm
    2 Council's Judgment
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Path to Exile
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Orzhov Pontiff
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Leonin Relic-Warder
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation

    None of the anti combo-control techs I wanted to try mattered, because there was barely any control out there nor combo vulnerable to it. Pontiff was a house all day, obviously given my match-ups. I'm also still very happy with Remorseful Cleric. Even the fact that it can block a jitte-equipped creature and sac before damage is awesome.

    BR reanimator is still a terrible match-up. I won game 1 after he mulled to five and I had the sequence of vial into port into recruiter for Remorseful Cleric on the play, but only barely - one turn before he would take over the game. I stood absolutely no chance game 2 or 3 despite very descent to good hands (at least three of removal, threat, mana denial and/or karakas).

  5. #10285
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mat View Post
    I'm not so sure. If you could play more than 4 vial, you'd probably go to at least 5-6, but more than that? The problem is that, by cutting lands in favor of extra vial effects, you weaken many powerful non-creature options the deck has and may even need now, such as equipment, council's judgment, cataclysm, planeswalkers... You could think of an all-in creature deck like tribal humans, but you'd be exposed to the weakness of such an archetype. Cutting back too much on noncreature mana also weakens a card like plow or path.
    Feel like Vial-flooding would just replace land-flooding, which currently happens more often, but overall it would be a wash.

  6. #10286
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Okay: this is the first time I have seriously put time into DnT and after a few weeks of testing this is where I am at.

    Land(23)
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishidan Port
    3 Karakas
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Mishraís Factory
    10 Plains

    Things(11)
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Batterskull

    Dudes(26)
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Flickerwisp
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Walking Basilica
    1 Palace Jainer
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Mirran Crusader

    Sideboard(15)
    2 Path to Exile
    2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    3 Rest In Peace
    2 Counsilís Judgement
    1 Leonin Relic Warder
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Sword of War and Peace
    1 Recruiter of the Guard

    I kinda want surgical in the board but love the 3 Rest In Peace, lots of 2/2ís to bring in against Dread of Night in addition to the Gideonís for the Emblem.

    Any glaring changes so far?
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  7. #10287

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    Okay: this is the first time I have seriously put time into DnT and after a few weeks of testing this is where I am at.

    Land(23)
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishidan Port
    3 Karakas
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Mishraís Factory
    10 Plains

    Things(11)
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Batterskull

    Dudes(26)
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Flickerwisp
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Walking Basilica
    1 Palace Jainer
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Mirran Crusader

    Sideboard(15)
    2 Path to Exile
    2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    3 Rest In Peace
    2 Counsilís Judgement
    1 Leonin Relic Warder
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Sword of War and Peace
    1 Recruiter of the Guard

    I kinda want surgical in the board but love the 3 Rest In Peace, lots of 2/2ís to bring in against Dread of Night in addition to the Gideonís for the Emblem.

    Any glaring changes so far?
    I really like Ballista mainboard lately but I question the 4 Revokers. I would rather have at least 1 more Mirran Crusader MB instead.
    Your SB looks fine. I have been using 2 Cataclysm and 1 Gideon SB, but I can see it being interchangeable as well.

  8. #10288
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Why are so many people on 3 (or 4) Phyrexian Revokers? It makes sense in a super D&T heavy meta, but otherwise you're gonna draw a lot of 2 mana 2/1 creatures that rarely impact the board.

    Also, I thought playing Mishra's Factor was a way to leverage the 24th land for more than just mana. Therefore it would not be used if you're just going with 23 lands, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  9. #10289

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    New article! This one is an interview with Josh Wiley, who top 4'd the Team Open with D&T. I also end the article with one of my recent lists and some thoughts on the meta as a whole. http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=2069

  10. #10290

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Hi all,

    We all can say that Sword of War and Peace is very powerful. So, what not playing it main deck in place of Sword of Fire and Ice ? What are the pros and cons of each one ? Do you really think SOFI is better against Miracles and Grixies Control than SOWAP ? I had a game yesterday I would have won if SOWAP would have been main deck for attacking across Mentor.

    Thx for your replys guys !

  11. #10291

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    And a question for you Medea :

    Do you bring in Chalices in Delver match up ? What about STP and PTE ?

  12. #10292
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ataraxy View Post
    Hi all,

    We all can say that Sword of War and Peace is very powerful.
    Hmmm....

  13. #10293
    Victory Dance ftw?
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ataraxy View Post
    We all can say that Sword of War and Peace is very powerful. So, what not playing it main deck in place of Sword of Fire and Ice ?
    Sword of Fire and Ice is strictly better than Sword of War and Peace. Period. If you have to pick one to play maindeck, you pick SoFaI.

    If you have a Miracles and DnT heavy meta, SoWaP makes a great sideboard option. And I've heard that it can be worth siding in against combo, as it can be a significant increase to your clock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  14. #10294
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    Why are so many people on 3 (or 4) Phyrexian Revokers? It makes sense in a super D&T heavy meta, but otherwise you're gonna draw a lot of 2 mana 2/1 creatures that rarely impact the board.

    Also, I thought playing Mishra's Factor was a way to leverage the 24th land for more than just mana. Therefore it would not be used if you're just going with 23 lands, right?
    I am on 4 Phyrexian Revokers because(IMHO) it is the second best creature in the deck in the deck in a lot of the harder matchups, behind Thalia, Revoker also doesn't die to Dread of Night in post board games.

    I am not sure on the mana base TBH, I think I want just Karakas/Port/Wasteland/Plains but my buddy snuck in a Canopy and a Cavern... which I switched to a Factory. I have not had mana issues as of yet but I can see the justification of hitting land 3 and 4.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  15. #10295

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I would be more likely to play it over Batterskull than SoFI.

  16. #10296
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    I would be more likely to play it over Batterskull than SoFI.
    Agreed, SoFI's card draw and overall utility is the reason I usually search it first with SFM.... especially if I know they play artifact destruction. In a game against Miracles I waited until they couldn't disenchant... played and equipped the SoFI to attack, kill a Snapcaster mage and drew a card, the disenchant was necessary but feels worse when it is to respond to a 3 for 1.

    SoWP is the best to race combo and against the mirror.... as the pro white is relevant. It also does a ton of damage against Miracles if you can get one to connect.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  17. #10297

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ataraxy View Post
    Hi all,

    We all can say that Sword of War and Peace is very powerful. So, what not playing it main deck in place of Sword of Fire and Ice ? What are the pros and cons of each one ? Do you really think SOFI is better against Miracles and Grixies Control than SOWAP ? I had a game yesterday I would have won if SOWAP would have been main deck for attacking across Mentor.
    There will be plenty of games where "I would have won" if one card had been different. Can't be prepared for everything.

    SoFaI draws a card and kills something. It wins a race vs True-Name Nemesis, and can't be chumped by a sneaky Clique or Snapcaster. Doesn't trade with Baleful Strix. Isn't scared of a Jace bounce.

    To be honest, I think I fetch Batterskull or Jitte more often than either Sword, but the specific situations where I want Fire and Ice seem to come up more often than War and Peace.

  18. #10298

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    OK guys, you convinced me ^^

  19. #10299

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by lavafrogg View Post
    Agreed, SoFI's card draw and overall utility is the reason I usually search it first with SFM.... especially if I know they play artifact destruction. In a game against Miracles I waited until they couldn't disenchant... played and equipped the SoFI to attack, kill a Snapcaster mage and drew a card, the disenchant was necessary but feels worse when it is to respond to a 3 for 1.

    SoWP is the best to race combo and against the mirror.... as the pro white is relevant. It also does a ton of damage against Miracles if you can get one to connect.
    I really dislike not being able to target the equipped creature with mom, though. I've had it come up multiple times where SoWP would otherwise have been good. Fatal Push or Jace-bounce, for instance.

  20. #10300
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    So we had a player yesterday at our local weekly tournament with a list that really intrigued me :) He ran the R splash, but with a playset of Simian Spirit Guide main, and three Pyroblasts side. That enabled a number of VERY sweet plays - like a 2nd turn Thalia, which gets met by Daze, which gets paid for by exiling a monkey from his hand. Or: Opponent casts Jace, D&T exiles monkey, blasts Jace on the stack, completely out of nowhere. Hilarious stuff! It also enabled him to play 1st turn Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and 2nd turn Thalia, Heretic Cathar (he ran 2, because he tried to de-emphasized double-W) and Magus of the Moon. He also ran a miser Lightning Bolt to win out of nowhere, but the stars never aligned for that to happen - that said, I'm not convinced by _that_ particular card choice. The other stuff, however, has some things going for it - if you don't convert monkey into fast mana, they're still acceptable equipment bearers that are immune to Dread of Night. He said he wasn't really happy with his untuned list yet, but I do think this approach has potential - maybe Recruiter of the Guard into Flametongue Kavu is going to be a thing soon ;)

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