Thanks for all of the replies! Brightling, so far, has been good for me. It didn't do much the one time it came up against Miracles, but I was relying on Cavern to recast it. There is, however, a lot of prison, and it has been a house against them. It has also helped me stabilize and take over in a number of games where I fell behind. TNN stops attacking, allowing me time to get SoFi on line, and I love it with Vial. I have no idea whether it's the best card to choose for its slot, but my record has certainly improved since I put two in the main. I hate losing to Miracles, which is rampant in my meta, so I might have to invest in Plateaus and suit up Mom and Pop.
So I'm sitting at about 71/75 average viewers over the last month needed for Twitch Partner. I'll be starting a D&T stream tonight at 7:00 PM EST, and if it goes well, I'll hit partner! Please tune in if you can! https://www.twitch.tv/deathandtaxesftw
@Adan RE: RW vs WW
I agree Magus is not great right now in the broad way it was in the greedy mana universe of DRS. I wouldn't want it against Miracles; Sneak and Show; Temur or Grixis Delver since, as you note, they run a lot of R removal; Mono-R Prison; or Eldrazi whatever. in fact, I have played Eldrazi post, Steel Stompy, and plain old MUD, and it just doesn't feel good enough for exactly the reasons you say, though it is quite good vs. normal E-Stompy.
Basically: vs. Lands-type decks and any greedy 3 color deck like BUG. Does that make it anything other than a 1-of?
What I do like about R are options like Abrade, Sparkmage, and Direfleet Daredevil, as well as the obvious value of P+K, which is fetchable, Karakas-friendly (exactly the card other Karakas decks do NOT want to bounce back to my hand), and more heavily favors a human-centric, 2-3 Cavern build.
Abrade: upside is obvious, but the downside is that we really only have 6 R sources, so it not being a creature is a big problem. if Manic Vandal isn't good enough, maybe this is not either. At least you can flicker Vandal for value.
Cunning Sparkmage: Feels like all value where you want it, but it is a bit narrow and Elves doesn't seem like a deck right now.
Direfleet Daredevil: Typically either a draw or an extra removal spell for me, obviously either a 3 drop or, super-happy, with Vial on 2, but how long do we keep Vial on 2?
In all honesty, P+K is really what draws me to R right now, over everything else.
After you mentioned the Hedge-mage, I was looking around and boy do I wish we had Orim's Thunder on a stick with "when this creature enters the battlefield, you may pay R to...".
On WW ideas, I kind of like Brimaz, King of Oreskos right now. It has always been powerful against Miracles, is resilient, allows a weird kind of going wide around a single TNN, and seems positioned much better in the current meta than it has been in years, arguably since it's introduction. Looking at your build, if you put Brimaz in, you can always name Soldier on Cavern and cover quite a lot.
If decks are going to try and go big, hard not to want a sweeper like Cataclysm.
Overall, I really like 3rd Revoker right now and that is about the only thing I am sure of.
redtwister, I think the real issue with Manic Vandal is that it's a must ability not a may. Even in matchups where it's great, like the mirror, sometimes you're just gonna be the only one with a target and you can't afford to hold a dead card in hand. Hedge-mage is unplayable with Cavern-based manabases for multiple reasons - you're never gonna have that many mountains, and it's not a human. I think it's possible they eventually print a strictly better Manic Vandal type card, but until then Relic-Warder is the best thing around.
Online at least I feel like the only bad matchup I keep running into is Storm. I started playing Mindbreak in the board and was immediately blessed with a TES/TES/ANT 5-0 league. I think Mindbreak got better with Probe gone. DnT also just got way better vs all the fair decks now that everyone isn't starting out with turn 1 DRS, so I think sideboards should probably shift towards beating combo. (Maybe not as true in paper magic where a lot of people just want to jam True Names.)
As you play way more than I do, aside from P+K and Direfleet, what do you really like R for right now maindeck? Or is that essentially what you are running? Magus just feels very mediocre main right now.Originally Posted by iatee
Yeah, it's primarily PK. That and the Caverns mean that the Miracles matchup is always gonna be favorable and you have a very strong end-game vs any other grindy fair matchup. Magus has never felt less powerful.
I just bit the bullet and bought 2 Brightling on MODO for fcking 70 tix, so now I will be able to actually test him and perhaps give you my verdict. The alternative will be side events at GP Turin in case I crap out (which I certainly will do).
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
I like Revoker. It's good against a lot of decks. The problem is, it's really, really bad against some others (notably RUG Delver). I'd fit a third copy if I could.
On the flip side, I'm debating Revoker versus Spirit of the Labyrinth in the main deck, since that card is good again the 61% of decks running Brainstorm. Of course, I'd still want a Revoker-like effect somewhere, so I might then add Needles to the board. I'm not sure.
As for Cataclysm, I switched away for the last month to try more flexible cards, but I think I'll be back on them soon. They're just so absurdly powerful versus the big-board decks.
As for Brimaz, I agree that the card is probably great right now. I'm just struggling with where to fit it. Brightling is filling a similar role against a lot of decks in deterring TNN and potentially being an overwhelming board presence that can be bounced as protection. Brightling seems better in many situations, but it's rather mana intensive. I think I'm most situations I'd rather draw Brightling first, but the Brimaz is usually better than the second Brightling. Complicating things further, these cards also compete with Cataclysm (though Brimaz is almost certainly the better of the two when used with Cataclysm).
Too many good cards, too few slots to fit them.
So I played some games on stream vs another streamer last night. Here's a series of clips that illustrates a progression of thoughts on Brightling as a match goes on.
https://clips.twitch.tv/CautiousCold...onkeyTwitchRPG
https://clips.twitch.tv/RacyShyPlumFreakinStinkin
https://clips.twitch.tv/SmoggyGlorio...pillarPanicVis
https://clips.twitch.tv/MuddySeductiveLocustUnSane
https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyAverageBobaUnSane
@Medea_
His reactions are pretty hilarious.
That very clearly highlights the power level of Brightling in the right matches and situations, but especially with Vial(s) and extra mana, as it is is just a very powerful card against a Tempo or aggro deck that has a hard time dealing with a 3/3 that can become a 4/2 or a 2/4 with lifelink and self-bounce.
@Adan
Look forward to hearing your results.
Yeah, I think Brightling is the finisher of choice at the moment and if you want some other finisher, it kind of competes with it (at least for me since with all the combo around, I want 3rd Revoker and 1 Prelate main, leaving me basically 2-3 slots at most.) WR is pretty much P+K over Brightling. In WW, it is basically Serra Avenger, Brimaz or big Thalia as well. Here is how I would rate our finishers (Palace Jailer isn't the same kind of card and Shalai just seems too fringe to vie for the real finisher slot.)
+ and ++ for positive and defining positive qualities
- and -- for negative and defining negative qualities
Brightling:
+ 3/3 for 3, kind a big for DnT
+ changeable power/toughness to self-protect, deal extra damage, trade with a bigger creature, or get under Ensaring Bridge
++ self-bounce provides evasion against sweepers, targeted removal, and edict effects
++ lifelink
+ Doesn't die to Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental, kicked Marsh Casualties or Massacre
-- big mana sink, can conflict with mana denial
- Much better with Vial than without
- No real taxing, not in itself disruptive
- not searchable.
- Not Cavern-friendly
P+K:
+ Searchable
+ 3 creatures for 1, 2 of which fly
+ Puts 4 power on the field
+ Reach with burn
+ Searchable
++ Karakas + Vial very powerful to create a board of threat all by itself
+ Works with Cavern very well
+ tokens are colorless
+ Legendary works with Karakas and Eiganjo Castle for self-protection
+ No opponent wants to bounce it with Karakas...
+ Doesn't die to Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental
+ resilient against edict effects
- Reach is mana-intensive and color dependent
- Forces Vial to 4 to be really good with Karakas
- Best with Vial
- No evasion on P+K itself
- No real taxing, not in itself disruptive
- CMC 4
-- Requires R splash mana base
Serra Avenger:
+ 3/3 for 2
++ Flying AND vigilance
+ Works with Vial on 2
+ Doesn't die to Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental, kicked Marsh Casualties or Massacre
- Not Cavern-Friendly
- No real taxing, not in itself disruptive
-- Never cast or Vialed in before turn 3 and still WW
- Does not self-protect
- not searchable
Brimaz:
+ 3/4 is a great size for DnT for cmc 3
+ Can work with Cavern thanks to Soldier
+ Can attack into lone TNN and still come out ahead
++ Makes 1/1 vigilant tokens whenever it attack or blocks, creating a wave of threats and then can evade edict effects
+ Legendary works with Karakas and Eiganjo Castle for self-protection
+ Doesn't die to Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental, kicked Marsh Casualties or Massacre
- Legendary, bounced by opponent's Karakas
- Not searchable
- No real taxing, not itself disruptive
- No real evasion aside from a big butt
Thalia, Heretic Cathar:
+ First Strike with 3 power
+ Synergizes very well with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben for defense
+ Cavern-friendly
+ Doesn't die to Dread of Night, Sulfur Elemental (situationally gets better with Elemental)
++ Disruption and taxing: non-basic mana and creatures by having them ETB tapped, very good against creature combo, like Sneak and Show
+ Searchable
+ Legendary works with Karakas and Eiganjo Castle for self-protection
- Legendary, bounced by opponent's Karakas
- Soft to almost all targeted removal
-- Best on turn 3, taxing provides diminishing returns the later the game goes
Given the drop in Fatal Push (currently played less than Punishing Fire!), Dismember (less played than Push), K-Command (not even in the top 50 spells now), not to mention Strix falling off the radar, IMO Mirran Crusader is not better than these. Crusader is just much less resilient and relevant than the others at the moment.
Last edited by redtwister; 07-28-2018 at 12:10 AM.
Awesome write-up redtwister, thank you for that.
You highlight the most important point about Brightling: it competes for the beater slot, and the beater slot only. In no ways is it our main plan, nor should one rely on it to win games. Good' old Waste + Thalia combination is what our deck stands for, and the engine with what we actually win games.
Choosing one's beater is a matter of preferences, in my opinion. In the end, there will always be situations in which one beater is better than another. Hence, your list is of great help to choose which beater better fits both individual preferences and the overall/specific metagame.
Nice +/- list. It's super late here, so I didn't actually process everything in my head, but this jumped at me.
It's P&K who deals damage when tossing artifacts at things, so the source is red.
I assumed he meant swinging in with the thopters, and used "tosses" loosely.Nice +/- list. It's super late here, so I didn't actually process everything in my head, but this jumped at me.
It's P&K who deals damage when tossing artifacts at things, so the source is red.
You are both correct, and that is corrected now.
Why is he scoffing at the idea of having brought in pithing needle? That card is great against us.
Interesting 5-0 decklist:
3 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Palace Jailer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Remorseful Cleric
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
9 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Act of Authority
1 Containment Priest
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Path to Exile
2 Surgical Extraction
Hey everyone new d&t player here.
What's everyones thoughts on faerie macabre vs. Surgical extraction in the board? I've seen people with either.
My thoughts are surgical seems like the overall stronger card obv but faerie is harder to disrupt. Extraction gets caught by daze/force/counterspells. More importantly chancellor of the annex in the reanimator m/u which is a huge boon for them. While faerie beats everything but i guess stifle which doesnt seem as relevant.
Surgical shines in other m/u's though like lands,dredge, combo decks like depths etc. As well as just ripping copies of powerful cards out of random decks. What do you guys think ?
I thought I had a stock answer to this on my FAQ, but I didn't...so I added one:
Should I play Surgical Extraction or Faerie Macabre?
Generally speaking, Surgical Extraction is the more powerful and versatile card. Being able to rip all of the copies of something like Life from the Loam, Punishing Fire, Bridge from Below, or Ichroid from your opponent’s deck is noticeably more powerful than stopping just a single copy as games go long. Surgical Extraction will come in for more matchups than Faerie Macabre, but Surgical does play poorly with Thalia (which is often good in the matchups where you bring in Surgical). Faerie is largely only superior in the BR Reanimator matchup, where it is tutorable with Recruiter of the Guard, avoids the Chancellor of the Annex trigger, and can hit multiple different creatures to blank an Exhume. There are other marginal differences as well, such as Duress being able to take a Surgical, or Vialing in a Faerie for a few points of late-game damage. If you are expecting a large amount of BR Reanimator, Faerie will likely perform better than Surgical. If you are expecting a more varied metagame, Surgical is likely to perform better.
New matchup primer! D&T vs RUG Delver. Thanks to Sean F. for the donation to fund the creation of this page! http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?page_id=1912
Taking out Sanctum Prelate vs RUG Delver is nuts. A good percentage of the time you resolve it and the game is over on the spot. Your hand will likely be out of removal by turn 3 and that means you'll be drawing dead something like 1/8 draws, whereas the majority of their deck is a poor draw from that spot - without cantrips to sequence perfectly, their deck draws terribly - 1 drops aren't their only bad draws at that point, counterspells and extra lands are also terrible from that point on. Playing against RUG Delver when they can't cast Lightning Bolt is playing a video game on easy mode.
The only really bad time to cast Prelate is if they have a fast Delver and you haven't found removal yet. And in that case you just don't cast it. Their green creatures are always manageable, even more when you can safely block with Mom and have a million turns to work with.
I take out Revokers, Recruiters and (in RW) Pia/Kiran. This is the classic 'Recruiter is too slow' matchup, and Stifle means they can even let you waste your turn on it.
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