Actually, I do kinda poorly against Omni. It's true that Thalia and Canonist are great against Omni. But little else we have does much of anything. I find myself going for some combination of weaker effects more often just because I don't have the goods in hand. Flickerwisp and Mangara can get you there most of the time. But you have to hardcast Mangara. Spirit of the Lab is of course great, but I am down to 1 or 2 in the board. Karakas doesn't do crap. Revoker neither. It's a bit better with Enlightened Tutor and a single Oblivion Ring. I had a Thorn of Amethyst in my board for this matchup for awhile too.Originally Posted by Windmill
Hey, Windmill. Don't let Enlightened Tutor resolve. There's some advice.
I dunno. I just feel impotent in this one.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
So are Reanimator and SnT considered really good matchups solely due to 3 Karakas MD?
Revoker is also pretty important to stop Sneak/Griselbrand. Thalia is kinda good with the mana denial package as well.
i'll just leave my list here:
Lands (23)
4x Wasteland
4x Rishadan Port
3x Karakas
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Horizon Canopy
7x Plains
Creatures (26)
4x Mother of Runes
4x Thalia
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Flickerwisp
3x Serra Avenger
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Mangara of Corondor
Instants (4)
4x StP
Artifacts (7)
4x Vial
1x Batterskull
1x Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
Sideboard (15)
4x Canonist
2x Containment Priest
2x RiP
2x Cataclysm
2x Gut Shot
1x Pithing Needle
1x Council's Judgement
1x Manriki-Gusari
Thanks @ Wasteland, copied your 4 Canonists and 2 MD Mindcensors. I used to play 2 Mirran Crusader 1 Aven 0 Mangara but really like the new configuration. Dont really think crusader is needed, sure hes strong against any kind of bug decks, but I feel BUG delver as the version thats mostly played atm is favourable enough. 2 Mindcensors give some g1 options vs elves which i really like as well.
I feel like I wanna at least add 1 Spirit of the Lab to my board. As much as I dont like her maindeck - she helps a lot vs most kind of combo decks, and I feel like I want some additional hate against Omnitell. Thoughts?
Yeah Omnitell is tough. Most of our cards become blanks. The few times I've been successful have been active vial, Canonist on board, with another Canonist in hand. Mother of Runes becomes key here for protecting against Rushing River.
If there is a significant amount of Omni in your meta I'm not above maindecking Canonist or Spirits. It's one of those bad matchups you have to accept (like Elves).
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No that was genuinely really helpful advice :) thank you. Why are you lessening the number of Spirit's in your board? Not good in your local meta, or are you playing in unknown tournament metas?
With the green splash I've been doing better than even against omnitell. After boarding I've got 2 Gaddock Teeg, 4 Thalia, 2 Canonist, 1 Spirit and 1 Fauna Shaman to search for hate. Mull to a hand that at least has a Thalia, and Wasteland or Port anything that looks like a sol land, try and keep them out of Show and Tell range till you can get a Teeg online.
I know this sounds crazy to an "outsider" (not meant as a pejorative in any way), but Spirit of the Labyrinth is not especially good. Folks assumed that D+T would be riding this power train to the moon, but the D+T testers around here found out pretty early that it was not a perfect fit. Honestly the highs with this card are sky high. Off a Vial, you can get the kind of swing that wins the game in response to many of the common draw abilities. But the lows are the Blade of the Sixth Pride kind. Death and Taxes can't afford many cards like that. This deck operates on very slim margins with not much deck manipulation. So our creatures have to be generically good rather than occasionally great. Think Flickerwisp. (Perhaps ironically, the card that would make Spirit work is Brainstorm.) Having a toughness of 1 does not help either. This deck is cluttered with fragile things like that.
In the recent Treasure Cruise era, I for one found this card to be a requirement for not getting blown out on card advantage. But it left me hanging from time to time too. If they Cruise and you topdeck it the turn after, it is terrible. If you are against Jund it is equally as bad. And so on. With Cruise run aground, it is just one more of probably a dozen powerful cards that are not quite right for prime time.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
Totally agree with you here. Despite that I'd still run at least 1 in my sideboard, I think she does her job well against combo decks that run a lot of cantrips, and Im not bringing her in against fair decks anyway. In Addition to her hate-effect shes a solid beater as well, and her 1 toughness doesnt matter in combomatchups ( except elves maybe) anyway
Well, AnT has Dread of Night sometimes. That card will end you if you don't have the right stuff. But I am with you on the singleton in the side. You can fetch it with Enlightened Tutor. And while Canonist is typically the better card to tutor up across the board, it is very handy to be able to fetch a Spirit if you already have the Canonist. So I am with you about keeping one around.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I want to claim that no one has done yet or is doing. I'm trying out 4 horizon canopies in my dnt list. It's not to shabby.
2015 SCG Washington D.C. IQ Legacy Champion - 1st place w/ Sneak and Show
Follow me on http://www.twitch.tv/dcosiem/ for Legacy on Cockatrice.
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So during the prerelease I was fortunate enough to pull an Anafenza. After her being a complete house in limited, I playtester her by replacing Brimaz with her. After playtesting her, I am now looking for a second cut. Anafenza is the real deal. Getting a 4/2 Flickerwisp a 3/2 Thalia, even 2/2 Mother of Runes is just so good. Some of the biggest issues are Jitte, Zealous Persecution, Dread of Night, Etc. and Anafenza gets all around that. My meta is flooded with Blade decks so maybe that's why I so happy with her.
Saw that more and more Bug Delver players tend to put 1-2 Dread of Night in their sideboard in addition to golgari charms. If you actually know your bug delver enemy is playing charms, dread of nights and a singleton null rod, do you bring in councils judgement?
I always bring in Judgements against BUG, even if they don't run Dread of Night (which they really shouldn't in a large meta). It will still take care of any problem card they have, such as TNN, Liliana, Null Rod, Pithing Needle, etc... Even if you have to use it on Tarmogoyf or Delver it's still ok.
That's interesting to hear. I might pick up 2 copies for testing shortly after the MODO release when her price plumpets.
I am testing a 1/1 split between anafenza and serra avenger. I've been less and less impressed with avenger as time goes on. An efficient beater just isn't enough in this deck. At least anafenza helps protects against a lot of the best sideboard cards against us, and give you another threat against miracles that you can protect with karakas. 2 copies of anafenza might prove to be too much, being legendary and all, but I just dunno yet.
Some other considerations for these slots include (in my mind): maindeck canonist, 1 spirit of the lab, or even leonin arbiter.
Has anyone had much experience with arbiter in legacy? The dissynergy with stoneforge obviously sucks, but perhaps the effect is harmful enough to the average opponent to make it worth it?
Search the thread, there has been a lot of discussion around the 4 Arbiter, 2 Aven Mindcensor, 4 Ghost Quarter build that has placed at some tournaments. Some of it was fairly recent, some about a year ago I think.
Yeah, I've seen those builds. I just don't feel particularly motivated to warp the deck around trying to make arbiter good. Maybe someday I'll try one of those out, but I don't get as much time to test new Legacy ideas week to week as I'd like.
I'm more wondering if it doesn't need much other help outside the normal DNT pieces to be a solid role-player. I should just test it myself at some weekly events and in test games, and report back though.
For clarity, I am talking about it replacing the 2 Avenger slots. I've been very happy with everything else in the maindeck since the banning. Avenger is just so comically bad in unfair matchups, and is almost never stellar even in the fair matchups.
It's interesting to hear about your experiences with Avenger. I'm running 3 avengers and I have to say that I find them to be quite good. I feel like it's often our best bet at an aggro plan when the situation calls for that. It carries equipment like a champ. I also think we need to be concerned about not having enough flyers. Delver of Secrets is a card and we also need a way to over and connect against elves.
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I definitely admit that it can be nice to have against Elves, but their good draws are often going to make Avenger not matter at all. It just helps you beat their subpar draws. I also play 2 mirran crusader maindeck, so that's the hero I want holding the Jitte anyway. If you don't play Crusader, Avenger is probably more needed in this matchup.
As for battling Delver decks, trading off an Avenger for their Insect is fine, but not exactly exciting. I'd rather make this play with a Flickerwisp, after getting some other value out of the card.
In general, I think Avenger is a very emotional card. What I mean by this is that we dwell (daydream even) on the times when Avenger is holding Sword of Fire and Ice and you feel invincible. I admit, its an awesome pairing. What we try to quickly forget are the times when your 2 drop for vial is Avenger, and you die immediately to combo (show and tell, storm, natural order, etc).
The local metagame for me in Chicago is more combo heavy and less delver-infested compared to the Opens however. So for those events, Avenger might still be more palatable.
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