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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #4961
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I did some tweaking on the R/W list and jammed a few games against Mentor Miracles yesterday, going 5-1 against it yesterday.

    6 Fetch
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    3 Karakas
    3 Plains
    2 Plateau
    1 Cavern of Souls

    4 Vial
    1 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    4 Thalia
    4 Stoneforge
    4 Mum
    4 Flickerwisp
    3 Revoker
    3 Imperial Recruiter
    1 Mangara
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Mirran Crusader
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter

    Sideboard
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Winter Orb
    3 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Rest in Peace
    3 Sudden Demise
    2 Council's Judgement
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Manic Vandal (Flex slot)

    Any thoughts/ideas/critiques? The deck just feels so good right about now.
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  2. #4962
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    How good had been Goblin Sharpshooter for you so far?

  3. #4963

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I have tested a little with winter orb and ensnaring bridge, they both seem to be uncommon and not as useful as I wish. How has your luck been with the orb? Where do you use it? And sharpshooter looks awesome at a glance. Taking out mirror creatures, mentor and pyro tokens seems awesome for us to use. I can't wait to hear more!

  4. #4964
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    It's probably too early to give a judgement on Sharpshooter, but it has exceeded expectations so far. It is such a good card in Goblins (probably the only good card in the whole deck) and now with ways to protect it (flickerwisp, mum) it's much more resilient.

    It's probably a terrible top-deck, but in long grindy games it can make a huge difference whether it's pinging your opponent each time a creature dies, combining with jitte counters or the fire+ice shock to take down creatures, or just wiping a whole deck off of x-1s. Also stoneforge can get a basilisk collar for it if you want to be super cute

    As for Winter Orb, I wanted an armageddon effect, but geddon/cataclysm doesn't synergise too well with a 2 colour deck with very limited red sources, so I figured people used to play winter orb back in the day and it fits the bill nicely for what I'm after. Sick combo with Rishadan Port too

    I went T1 Vial into T2 Winter orb, into T3 Thalia (through the Vial) against Miracles and it was just game over. Their deck is so mana-hungry that only giving them 1 land a turn is just super back-breaking, especially as most don't play too many lands and instead rely on spinning top and cantripping to find their lands.

    I'm super super super excited to take this list a tournament! Unfortunately Australia doesn't seem to enjoy Legacy as much as Europe does :(
    Oh, and R/W Taxes (the bahra list) took me to the top 8 (4th seed) in the Melbourne Legacy League. The splash is indeed very good in my humble opinion.

    Among many things I'm not sure on, should I play 3 plateaus or 3 karakas'? I kinda want both, but that's probably a bit too greedy.
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  5. #4965

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Is there like a rule of thumb when it comes to what equipment to fetch with stoneforge?

  6. #4966
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I played yesterday a Legacy tournament in my LGS with 30 players there. I played mono-white D&T with a couple of Vryn Wingmares. Here is the list I played:

    4 x Mother of Runes
    4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 x Stoneforge Mystic
    4 x Phyrexian Revoker
    2 x Serra Avenger
    4 x Flickerwisp
    2 x Mirran Crusader
    2 x Vryn Wingmare

    4 x Aether Vial
    4 x Swords to Plowshares
    1 x Batterskull
    1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 x Umezawa's Jitte

    4 x Wasteland
    4 x Rishadan Port
    7 x Plains
    3 x Flagstones of Trokair
    3 x Karakas
    1 x Horizon Canopy
    1 x Cavern of Souls

    SB:

    2 x Council's Judgment
    2 x Cataclysm
    1 x Pithing Needle
    2 x Chalice of the Void
    3 x Ethersworn Canonist
    2 x Ratchet Bomb
    3 x Rest in Peace

    I finished 4-1 with this list, but I am getting pretty good results here with mono white. Last tournaments I played with the deck I made 4-1-0 and another 4-1 but with different lists. Changes I did for yesterday tournament were:

    -2 Aven Mindcensor
    +2 Vryn Wingmare

    -1 Containment Priest
    -1 Ethersworn Canonist
    +2 Chalice of the Void

    My matchups yesterday were:

    Round 1: RUG Delver --> 2-0
    Round 2: TES --> 0-2
    Round 3: Elves --> 2-1
    Round 4: Grixis Delver with DRS --> 2-0
    Round 5: Reanimator --> 2-0

    I wondered with Vryn Wingmare. I won power especially against Delver with them, but it is great against combo too (Except Elves obviously). It's pretty good force opponent to play Braintorms by 3 mana with Thalia in play too. I will meditate play the third Vryn Wingmare because represents the pure style of the archetype.

    Chalice of the Void was pretty good too. Had a great impact onto the battlefield, sideboarding it in in all rounds except against Reanimator. With Vryn, Chalice and the rest of the staff, Delver decks are pretty easy to win. It is close to a bye, especially with this list.
    I tried Chalice of the Void because I wanted to minimize DTT's impact in game trying to cancel the rest of spells like Ponder, Brainstorm, Gitaxian Probe... In this situation DTT supose less advantage for opponents I think. I did the same in TC era and I thought was the time to try it again.
    With Chalice you play relaxed because you will not eat any Bolt/StP too, and against Delver, in addition, you avoid opponent to play Delver and DRS. They are forced to destroy it, so it is possible yo can play and equip your equipment in a clean field without Decay or Grip. I think Chalice is one of the most underrated cards in the format and I am watching here in Europe an increase of Chalice with MUD and 4C-Loam to counter the hostile format.

    Personally, I do not understand D&T lists with 3 colors. It is crazy. Mono-white remains very strong, can be adapted to the metagame. Imperial Taxes seems really good and I want to try it, but I already tried Teeg & Taxes and it is not better than mono-white. It is better against Miracles and Blade, but it is worse against Delver and Lands for example. So I do not understand the disappearance of the mono-white version from this forum. It is at least at the same height as the other 2 versions.

  7. #4967
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I played my esper thopters against mono white DnT the other day and it was brutal. Mangara of Corondor was huge for him with karakas. not sure what the opinions are on him, but he was brutal in the early game coming down t3 after land -> vial, waste -> karakas + Mangara. Kept me off all my lands :(

    I agree that mono white seems to be extremely strong and with access to chalice and some other really good hate cards, seems like it's the go to choice.

  8. #4968
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    If Merfolk can run Vial and Chalice in their 75, we could definitely give it a try here.

    I'm pretty convinced that the meta today is defined by the new pillars Chalice, LED and DTT. To not run any of the 3 puts the Legacy player at a disadvantage.
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  9. #4969
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by TokugawaEdo View Post
    Is there like a rule of thumb when it comes to what equipment to fetch with stoneforge?
    Sword of Fire and Ice: control matchups when you want to start drawing cards e.g miracles (and obviously against decks where the protection clause is relevant)
    Batterskull: when you want to gain a tonne of life or get something that can't be abrupt decayed (although remember that the germ token can be)
    Jitte - Creature decks: elves, goblins, the mirror etc or when you want to kill your own creatures e.g. dredge.

    I've over simplified this because there's no way to answer your question properly because what you search for should be determined by the board-state and what's in your hand first and foremost.
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  10. #4970
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Plague Sliver View Post
    If Merfolk can run Vial and Chalice in their 75, we could definitely give it a try here.
    That disregards that they have no relevant 1-drops aside from Vial. Cursecatcher is meh anyway and could be cast through a Cavern.

    We, on the other hand, have Mom, StP and Vial. Depends on the match-up how relevant those are.

  11. #4971
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I played at the SCG DC Open yesterday, sadly I went 3-4 and ended up dropping. My matches were as following:

    0 - 2 Storm (ANT)
    2 - 1 D&T
    2 - 0 Thopter Miracles
    2 - 0 Burn
    1 - 2 Grixis Delver (Lost this game because I didn't identify his game until G3. G1 he showed me only a volcanic, G2 he showed me only an underground/tropical with a delver and a deathrite. I found G3 that he was actually grixis and not 4 color, so my deck wasn't really prepared for a mass amount tokens made from young pyro.)
    1 - 2 Ponder Miracles
    0 - 2 Omni

    Walking around there was a good mix of everything but I saw a lot of burn, d&t and lands. There were a few sneak and show players in the top 32ish area (sadly didn't get to play against those). Some of the miracles players I saw playing seemed to have sulfur elementals in their board if they weren't running mentor. Is this a common thing to do now?

  12. #4972

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    I played at the SCG DC Open yesterday, sadly I went 3-4 and ended up dropping. My matches were as following:

    0 - 2 Storm (ANT)
    2 - 1 D&T
    2 - 0 Thopter Miracles
    2 - 0 Burn
    1 - 2 Grixis Delver (Lost this game because I didn't identify his game until G3. G1 he showed me only a volcanic, G2 he showed me only an underground/tropical with a delver and a deathrite. I found G3 that he was actually grixis and not 4 color, so my deck wasn't really prepared for a mass amount tokens made from young pyro.)
    1 - 2 Ponder Miracles
    0 - 2 Omni

    Walking around there was a good mix of everything but I saw a lot of burn, d&t and lands. There were a few sneak and show players in the top 32ish area (sadly didn't get to play against those). Some of the miracles players I saw playing seemed to have sulfur elementals in their board if they weren't running mentor. Is this a common thing to do now?
    It's for mentors and monks. What version of dnt did u play

  13. #4973
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes


  14. #4974
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Has anybody else running the green splash tested out Noble Hierarch yet? It has been excellent so far in my testing and I'm considering adding a 4th copy.

    My main concern with the green splash is still the lack of decent additional creature removal. Any ideas how to tackle that?

  15. #4975
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Has anybody else running the green splash tested out Noble Hierarch yet? It has been excellent so far in my testing and I'm considering adding a 4th copy.

    My main concern with the green splash is still the lack of decent additional creature removal. Any ideas how to tackle that?
    With four Hierarchs it may make sense to include some Engineered Explosives in the board. At three colors you start to nab True Name Nemesis as a very nice side effect.
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  16. #4976
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I've been thinking of testing 3 stoneforge mystics and putting batterskull in the sb. playing w/ 3 recruiters ensures you can still get one in a fair matchup, and it gives more space for a 1-of wishboard main. what do people think of this list?

    lands - 23
    5 Fetch
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    2 Karakas
    3 Plains
    2 Plateau
    3 Cavern of Souls

    spells - 10
    4 Vial
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Jitte
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    creatures - 27
    4 Thalia
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Flickerwisp
    3 Imperial Recruiter
    3 Stoneforge
    3 Revoker
    2 Magus of the Moon
    1 Mangara
    1 Mirran Crusader
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Vryn Wingmare

    sb
    1 Savannah
    1 Gaddok Teeg
    1 Batterskull
    2 Sudden Demise
    2 Rest in Peace
    1 Cataclysm
    3 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Leonin Relic Warder
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Containment Priest

  17. #4977

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Any thoughts/ideas/critiques? The deck just feels so good right about now.
    No Jitte? Please enlighten me.

  18. #4978
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by c2232 View Post
    No Jitte? Please enlighten me.
    Oops, that was a typo. Jitte is in the mainboard.

    I played some games against Reanimator, 4 Colour Delver, Aggro Loam, Mentor Miracles and Omnitell today, and the deck just seemed to cut right through them like a buzz-saw.

    I changed the mana-base to the full greed (3 Karakas, 3 Plateau, 6 Fetches, 2 Plains, 4 Waste, 4 Port, 1 Cavern) and it was just awesome. It's obviously much easier to get punished but so far it's felt so good having the maximum "power" from the land-spells.
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  19. #4979
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Oops, that was a typo. Jitte is in the mainboard.

    I played some games against Reanimator, 4 Colour Delver, Aggro Loam, Mentor Miracles and Omnitell today, and the deck just seemed to cut right through them like a buzz-saw.

    I changed the mana-base to the full greed (3 Karakas, 3 Plateau, 6 Fetches, 2 Plains, 4 Waste, 4 Port, 1 Cavern) and it was just awesome. It's obviously much easier to get punished but so far it's felt so good having the maximum "power" from the land-spells.
    How do you feel about your current creature base? Do you like losing the additional Magi in the MD for the 3rd Recruiter? How did Sharpshooter perform in the meantime?

  20. #4980
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    How do you feel about your current creature base? Do you like losing the additional Magi in the MD for the 3rd Recruiter? How did Sharpshooter perform in the meantime?
    I really love the creature base right now honestly. I know one should never get too caught up in results based thinking, especially when we're in relatively un-chartered waters, but so far it has just been crushing for me.

    Sharpshooter combo's really well with creature's dying (duh), but it is just bananas, especially with Mother of Runes. Sword of fire and Ice can shoot down one deathrite, and then with the untap trigger on the stack, you can shoot another deathrite, let the trigger resolve, and then shoot it again. It just makes combat math super unfavourable for your opponent, and it can even ping Planeswalkers when the board-state gets clogged up. I'm not even being hyperbolic when I say that Goblin Sharpshooter is better in R/W Taxes than it is in Goblins.

    One thing I do miss are the extra fliers from mono-white. I was never particularly fond of Serra Avenger because she's just a somewhat slow vanilla beater, but not having it makes me realise why she's in mono-white in the first place.

    As for Magus, I'm a huge fan of the card, but it's no longer the absolute crusher it was a few months ago when BUG decks were all the rage. Now it's just a Silver Bullet to tutor for with an additional copy in the sideboard for those matchups where it is just insane. Overall I've been very pleased with the 3rd copy of Recruiter, especially with the various silver bulllets I have in my maindeck and sideboard. It's such a pity Recruiter can't get Flickerwisp
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

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