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Thread: [DTB] Death and Taxes

  1. #10441
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Is that really any better than Vryn Wingmare?
    Asolutely not, in my opinion.

  2. #10442
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    The comparison to wingmate is apt, to be sure. But it is cleay not a direct comparison. This thing does not attack and instead has an extra defense ability. But it is harder for something like Miracles to be rid of. Combo, Im not sure of. I think it depends if they are still using stuff like Abrupt decay for removal. I think players of other decks would have opinions on how important that distinction is.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
    "Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
    "Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
    "Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."

  3. #10443

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    The comparison to wingmate is apt, to be sure. But it is cleay not a direct comparison. This thing does not attack and instead has an extra defense ability. But it is harder for something like Miracles to be rid of. Combo, Im not sure of. I think it depends if they are still using stuff like Abrupt decay for removal. I think players of other decks would have opinions on how important that distinction is.
    I think dovin does not belong to dnt shell as its abilities do not advance any board state at all. It jus seems like a hybrid of gideon of the trials abd wingmare.

    Would think dovin is more suited for control decks with big finishers such as monastery mentor or entreat (although most people have moved away from entreat).

  4. #10444

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    About Dovin: Just a bad card. As people said, Vryn Wingmare is just better, basically the same effect, and is a creature, and already sees few to no play. The ability is just not worth it, we need our cards to TAX and BEAT the opp at the same time. Dovin just taxes.

    About Tomik: It is ONLY good agains lands. And have very downsides:
    - Legendary can be bad against some matchups. The EFFECT is good against the mirror, but being legenday means we are gonna side-out the card. It is contradictory.
    - We do not always have WW on turn two. Sometimes we keep with "plains, wasteland" or "karakas, rishadan port", being unable to deploy the card on t2 and start to pressure. I REALLY think ours two-drops must be always at least 1W or just {2}.
    - Without its ability, is just a 2/3 fly for WW, and this is legacy, we have thousands of card at our disposable to choose from, and a 2/3 for WW is the best we can find? The card is fine, but not for legacy, AT LEAST, not in the current meta, if there will be ever one that it can play.

    I dont know if people talked about the card, but if there's a card that can make the cut from this set, it is Gideon's Triumph:

    http://mythicspoiler.com/war/cards/gideonstriumph.html

    The card is comparable with other 2 cards: The first is celestial flare, that as we can see, is just a batter version because is 1W and not WW.
    The other is Blessed Alliance.

    With Blessed Alliance: we can make our opp sacrifice an attacking creature, gain life, or untap up to two creatures.
    With Gideon's Triumph: we can make our opp sacrifice an attacking or blocking creature.

    Blessed Alliance, most of the time, will just be used for the first mode. It is too mana consuming, and with just a Thalia into play, one escalated effect costs now 4W. With we using ports and wasteland, I dont think it is very plausable to use more than one mode.
    Gideon's Triumph, on the other hand, can make things difficult for the opp. Sometimes a creature like a gurmarg angler or a TNN is just blocking your way, and you must start pressuring the opp. With this, you can kill the creature without problems. Besides, the fact of the very existence of the card will make things harder for the opp: Imagine you play a game against a stoneblade variant deck with TNN. You lose g1. On g2, you attack, opp block with TNN, and you gideon's triumph him. You win g2. On g3, you attack again against a TNN with you having 2 open mana. Will the opp block? This is very interesting, because if you are already in a bad spot, you can make a few "daring attacks".(considering you do NOT have gideon's triumph in hand). But if you DO, your opp will have to think carefully, because now you have a instant speed card against their hard-to-deal-creature.

    I think it is worth it a try, and I will star testing just 1-off on the side. (take out a path, I was already using 2)

    And, dont forget, with a Gideon PW, the opp sacrifices two. So, it is good against some control builds, like grixis control, which is already a deck we bring Gideon.

  5. #10445
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    played in a 24 man tournament yesterday.
    I played a stock version with 3 mirran crusaders / 1 remorsful cleric / 1 sanctum prelate as the flex slots.
    Made the top 4 by Drawing vs Punishing fire then winning vs Sneak and show, The epic thief and UR delver. I then draw into top 8 and won vs Death shadow to make it to top 4 and split the prices.

    My feelings about the deck:
    Still strong vs anything. Mirran crusader seems overratted today. and Graveyards decks are nowhere to be seen so my choice of playing a one of remorsfull cleric main seemed bad.
    I did not have the balls to bring advokist :)
    Death and taxes!!

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  6. #10446

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Still strong vs anything. Mirran crusader seems overratted today. and Graveyards decks are nowhere to be seen so my choice of playing a one of remorsfull cleric main seemed bad.
    I did not have the balls to bring advokist :)
    Have you had a chance to playtest with Orzhov Advokist as yet? I now have a playset myself (but no real time for testing).
    For all: As it competes directly for a spot with Mirran Crusader - I'm wondering the matchups where one might be the favoured beater over another?

  7. #10447
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarwyn View Post
    Have you had a chance to playtest with Orzhov Advokist as yet? I now have a playset myself (but no real time for testing).
    For all: As it competes directly for a spot with Mirran Crusader - I'm wondering the matchups where one might be the favoured beater over another?
    To be honest, I did not as I am still not sure that it is that good :)
    But the consensus is that mirran crusader is nit good also these days because less grixis control and no black decks generally speaking.
    So you might try :)
    Death and taxes!!

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  8. #10448

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I'll be hosting an interview on stream with Michael Skipper tomorrow (Monday) night. We'll be talking about his top 8 finish at GP Niagara Falls with D&T. The interview will start at 7:00 PM EST and last about an hour. Hope to see many of you tune in! https://www.twitch.tv/deathandtaxesftw

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  10. #10450
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Thanks for sharing. He is a good writer.
    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
    "Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
    "Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
    "Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."

  11. #10451
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    After a short hiatus, I had a blast playing my unmodified Wu variant again yesterday, winning our local FNM Legacy tournament with a 4-0 record (but only 3 matches played, due to a first-round bye). I beat a very spicy Dack Fayden + Life from the Loam + mana dorks URG brew 2-1, then Grixis Control 2-0, and then finally Goblins, again 2-0. You all should really try out a list packing Geist of Saint Traft, that card is just silly. And I think you should also really give Epochrasite a chance, at the very least against Grixis Control - I won the second game against my R3 opponent by recurring Epochrasite no fewer than four times.

    Edit: I really enjoyed reading that tournament report; thanks for publishing it, Phil - and thanks for writing it, Michael! :) Imagining Miracles having to summon a Monastery Mentor only to chump Thalia sure made me smile! :>

  12. #10452
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I was browsing Thraben university, and one thing that i think is missing would be a list of the possible options for main deck / sideboarding that are not played, why they are not played and in which occasions they would be playable.
    I think it's allways good to know why we are not playing a card. I see a lot of new players asking why we are not playing card x or card y and pointing such an article to them would be usefull.
    Of course i know this is a lot of work. Just throwing an idea here, hoping that someone would catch it and submit something to phil (If he doesn't want to / can't do it himself).

    EDIT: ok. this is somehow done in the various parts of the deckbuilding tab :)
    Death and taxes!!

    Play 4CB!

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  13. #10453

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    @Tylert

    Glad you found it. If you ever have other ideas, feel free to tag me or send me a PM. I don't check this site as regularly as I used to, but I still drop by once a week or so.

  14. #10454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
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    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
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  15. #10455
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I'm not conviced it's any good, to be honest: You can neither tutor nor vial that card, it costs 4 under Thalia, it's nearly useless against opposing Karakas, and wears equipment very poorly. There are far better options available for that slot.

  16. #10456

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Came 9th (10th after swiss, 9th after final standings) at 'Puget Sound Battleground' the other week,
    8 rounds - 134 players.

    Event was created as basically geek fortress attempting to run their own GP, they had a handful of artists, and also had a 200+ person modern tournament, and an oldschool tournament. The whole thing seemed like a pretty big success so it's nice to see some competition coming up

    I've honestly been out of practice the last few months opting to play RB goblins in the local meta, to the point where new people don't know me as the D&T guy, but instead the goblins guy who sometimes plays D&T...

    I settled on the following list after testing a bunch of different lists on MTGO

    Code:
    12 Plains
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    3 Karakas
    
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    
    4 Aether Vial
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire & Ice
    1 Batterskull
    
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Revoker
    2 Serra Avenger
    4 Flickerwisp
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Walking Ballista
    1 Palace Jailer
    
    //SB
    2 Cataclysm
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Council's Judgment
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Path to Exile
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    List thoughts:
    I've been off and on caverns lately, but there has been a huge uptick in back to basics decks and I am sick of losing because either you dont have white for your spells, or 13/23 lands in the deck are locked under back to basics. In addition I think in general if you're playing avengers you probably shouldn't be playing caverns because the stretch to white mana is just very difficult to deal with.

    +1 Phyrexian Revoker: I've been on two for probably a year, but with the huge uptick in UW stoneblade as well as how often the mirror tends to come up in these events (and this being the first weekend everyone can play WotS planeswalkers) i opted for more outs
    Serra Avenger: in recent years i've usually been a huge proponent of mirran crusader, running 3-4 in most of the lists i've done my best with, however with the uptick in UW stoneblade and TNN decks in general (UR delver is pretty popular around here) as well as the absurd amount of -1/-1 hate floating around avenger seemed like the best choice.

    Sideboard:
    This is where I really would have benefited more from additional testing, I knew i wanted to play cataclysm to deal with planeswalker control decks (expected a lot of 12 post as this is the first weekend karn was legal), and then the rest was just kind of general hate. Its very tough to tech a SB for a big event, because if you tech against the wrong thing, its very possible to end up playing against your weakness for most of the day. I think the sideboard could have definitely been improved with a third council's judgment, or even 1-2 blessed alliance but again its hard to say.

    Notes will be pretty brief as i actually managed to dunk my notebook in the sink in the bathroom at the end of the day...

    R1 - Brock Hadley - RB Reanimator
    G1 - D : Opponent had a pretty slow hand thankfully, reanimating a grislebrand on t2 which put him pretty low, and puts me in a good spot (provided his top 7 cards were bad) with my karakas. Thankfully they were and I managed to squeeze it out.
    G2 - D : Another pretty slow hand from my opponent, i was able to surgical his grislebrands so he tried to go the distance with a chancellor and one of my creatures, we had a pretty weird scenario that resulted in us passing back the monarchy a couple times, but i managed to get there.

    1-0

    R2 - Tom Galstian - Medium Depths
    G1 - P : Thalia did a TON of work this game, he had a 20/20 on board and a sylvan safekeeper, i was spewing swords/flickerwisp against it to eat his lands, while chumping with fliers. This resulted in him only ending up with one land and a mox diamond, he was forced in to a scenario where he had to crop rotation for sejeri steppe, but as crop rotation cost 2 and he had to sac his only land, I was able to finally get rid of the 20/20 with rotation on the stack.
    G2 - D : Quick 20/20 with protection beats me
    G3 - P : he manages to get a 20/20 and safekeeper, but thankfully no crop rotation this time. I had 2 flickerwisps out that were on chump duty, which bought me the time to draw mother of runes, and then the top decked serra avenger on the last possible turn. Avenger + Mom let me make quick work of the rest of the game.

    2-0

    R3 - Peter Cottel - 4c Loam
    G1 - D : very 'quick' recruiter for Prelate on 2 shuts this down.
    G2 - D : I have a gideon, and he has a lotv, he downticks to kill my knight, then plays queen marchesa and swings at gideon for 3. I get to untap, play palace jailer hitting marchesa, uptick gideon and swing in to kill lililana. from there its just cleanup work as i'm drawing 2 cards a turn and making knights

    3-0

    R4 - Colin Brady - UW Blade
    G1 - D : Quick TNN + Jitte makes me very upset
    G2 - D : Quick TNN + Jitte + disenchant makes me very upset

    **sidebar, honestly UW blade feels like the worst matchup we are likely to run in to, they just have so many cards that are good against near everything we are trying to do. Even things like revoker/needle aren't good enough to do anything but temporarily stem the bleeding because they run 1-2 judgment and 2 disenchant.

    3-1

    R5 - Dara Abounorinejad - D&T
    G1 - P : While I was on the conservative D&T for this tournament, Dara was going buck wild - Caverns, Tomiks, Gideon Blackblade - In this particular game none of that really mattered as i punted on a wasteland activation and quickly lost(my brain at the time: Mental note, wasteland him on my turn. End of my turn comes: Nah im gonna wasteland him on his upkeep. Dara: activates stoneforge mystic)
    G2 - P : Dara got me gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood, we both get to go early SFM for jitte, I equip mine and swing in, he drops batterskull and eats my SFM - RIP the rest of the game. I tried to fight for a long time, but it was too much to overcome.

    ** more sidebar: Dara is a sweet dude, he did pretty well the rest of the tournament and played against I believe 2 more friends of mine, all of which independantly came up to me afterwards and said 'that Dara guy that was playing D&T is great' so Dara if you're out there, rock on

    3-2

    R6 - Timothy Abbot - Medium Depths
    Tim was the car mate of my second round opponent and they were on what seemed like the exact same list.
    G1 - P : I managed to do D&T things while my opponent didnt manage to do depths things
    G2 - D : See above - Although honestly now im wondering if im getting my depths games mixed up, so maybe what happened in round 2 actually happened here, either way I got a nice 2-0

    4-2

    R7 - Zach Lincoln - Lands
    G1 - P : We played for around 25 minutes where my opponent had 3 punishing fires to kill all of my creatures (and started shooting me) and while loaming was not able to find a depths. He did however have a barbarian ring out that I needed to get rid of if I had any hope of winning. However with loam going this proves difficult. I had the wasteland locked in hand, and a SOFI on the board. All I needed to do was draw either recruiter or prelate in the next 4 turns, while hoping he continues to not find a depths. I ended up drawing the prelate, so i needed to then pull off the next part of this trick, which is to look exasperated and wasteland his Barbarian ring, hoping he doesn't copy it with his thespians stages.
    I manage to pull it off (likley due to this being the slowest grindiest game in weeks) and get a prelate out on 2. From here he can't do anything and I lock it up.

    As this is about 8-9 hours in to a long day, my opponent actually scoops the match to me. Which lets me have some time to go get some snacks

    R8 - Matt Schryver - Maverick
    G1 - P : Wasteland + removal for his mana dorks made it difficult for him to cast anything, and i get there. Jailer was great
    G2 - D : a very similar game where he ended up without much mana.

    I finished 10th place after the swiss, the second highest 6-2.

    Final thoughts, I think the list is VERY strong. None of the new cards honestly seem that appealing to try and shove in. Although looking at what i played against for the day tomik certainly would have been good, but i still think avenger is better against the field. I can't help but feel that D&T is not in a great place at the moment, 12 post can be a toss up, and an increase in TNNs and especially TNNs with Jittes always feels bad.

    I can't discount the amount of times luck was on my side for this tournament, but sometimes thats the way she goes, and there are plenty of games/matches where she goes the other way, even here. The losses I had were HEAVY losses, with only i believe one of them against Dara being a scrap.

    For Geek Fortresses first big event, it went pretty smoothly. There were of course delays you would expect from running three relatively large events at once, and most dissapointingly NONE of the legacy was streamed, but i certainly hope its enough to convince them to run another one, and I know i'll make the trip for it.

  17. #10457

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    i am very happy to add DnT to my stable again now that i am returning to finer formats. thanks for the report.

  18. #10458

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Great report!

  19. #10459

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes



    As was mentioned by Gruul in the modern horizons thread, "She doesn't die to Dread of Night and its hateful cousins, and helps against Eldrazi, while Mom is like the first card to cut in that specific MU. She doesn't target herself, doesn't benefit from Cavern on Humans but benefits on Kor."

    Not protecting herself is fairly significant, but the gains against colorless cards seems decent and worth consideration for some slots.
    Cockatrice: Bosque

  20. #10460
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Interesting card. Of course I don't see this replacing Mother of Runes, but maybe augmenting it as a 1- or 2-of. The fact that the card doesn't have any kind of resilience of its own makes it, imo, too fragile to compare favorably to the original, where the window of opportunity for the opponent to respond/handle it closes within a turn.

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