I think everyone's points are pretty valid. I guess that versus various types of Burn, Kor Firewalker is probably the best of a series of imperfect "solutions."
How would you guys feel about this sideboard?
2 Rest in Peace
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Wiltleaf Liege
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Cataclysm
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 ???
Again, looking to focus on Miracles, Delver (BUG and RUG), and UR Burn, for the most part.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Haven't read this completely but why aren't people playing CoP Red? I'm playing it in Zoo board and it just destroys Burn, especially since they don't proactively board in Needles.
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Originally Posted by OBFREELY
Team Brown & Team Unicorn. Does that make me a Brown Unicorn?
Some players definitely do SB COP:Red especially if the SB shell is already running an ETutor or two. Outside Modo Idk that Burn makes up a large enough percentage of the metagame to devote slots to it. Curving out (Vial, Thalia, Mom off Vial, SFM off Vial) into Equipment can sometimes beat them too.
I think people are looking at the Pro:Red bodies (Kor Firewalker, Burrenton Forge-Tender), because they have application against UR Delver, Burn and of lesser importance Punishing Jund.
TPDMC
The issue with Aegis is the same with CoP, except it can't hit creatures and Vortex.
However, I am in general agreement about CoP, though I believe it is the best of the effects in terms of power.
Personally, I am trying some rogue tech in Auriok Champion. Like Firewalker, Champion has Pro-Red and gains us life; unlike Firewalker, we also gain life from our spells (and cards like Brimaz or opposing Young Pyromancer) and our flickers become useful too. Added to that the fact that she has protection from black as well (useful against Jund and BURG) and I really think Champion deserves some testing.
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
Hey guys, i won a Legacy Regional with this DnT list and i think it is really good for the meta infested with Cruises
4 [TE] Wasteland
3 [LG] Karakas
10 [UNH] Plains
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
// Creatures
4 [DKA] Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [MBS] Phyrexian Revoker
3 [EVE] Flickerwisp
4 [CMD] Mother of Runes
3 [TSP] Serra Avenger
1 [MBS] Mirran Crusader
1 [BNG] Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 [AVR] Silverblade Paladin
1 [FUT] Aven Mindcensor
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
1 [NPH] Batterskull
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [BNG] Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 2 [SHM] Wilt-Leaf Liege
SB: 1 [SOK] Manriki-Gusari
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [EX] Cataclysm
SB: 1 [PLC] Sunlance
SB: 1 [CNS] Council's Judgment
SB: 1 [A] Armageddon
SB: 1 [NE] Seal of Cleansing
(BTW, i went undefeated to top 8 and only lost 2 games in the whole tournment)
These are the changes i've made after the champ: -1 Aven Mindcewnsor MB + 1 Spirit of the Labirinth MB, -1 Spirit of the Lab SB +1 Ethersworn Canonist(she is really good at softlocking the UR Swifstpear/Treasure Cruise decks that are running rampanth in the field.
I'll test the new list against the field, i'm planning on playing this list(with modifications) in the National this year, any thoughts of how good it is or what needs to be changed?
Matchups?
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
I would love to hear more about Silverblade Paladin. It makes stuff like Revoker and Spirit actually not suck in combat. Turning Avengers and Flickerwisps into 6 power beaters isn't too shabby, either.
Edit: The combo with Batterskull also seems pretty hilarious.
First Round of the Regional: Mirror 2-1, this is where the Silverblades Shine, the Mom usually gets shut down by a revoker or needle so having a double striker is the most easy path to victory
Second Round: Reanimator 2-0, Reanimator is a really easy Matchup, your Spirits shuts down the Grizzys so they can't even reanim ate hi m just to draw 7
Third Round: Shardless Bug 2-0 , Game one was really easy and game two was tricky, all i have to say is that i ended up with a 3/3 Silverblade Paladin soulbounded with a 8/8 Liege equipped with Batterskull... pretty good, hum? hahaha
Fourth round: NO Rug(a friend of mine who ended up going to the finals with me) ID
Fifth Round: Infect: 2-0, Infect is not an easy Matchup but i was on the play on G1 and menaged to mana screw him with Thalia + triple Wasteland and i kept with 3 removals on gama 2,enough to save some time until i could connect with a Jitte
Sixth Round: ID, i can't remember what deck i faced since we ID'd
Top 8: Quarterfinals: Faced the same guy form the third round(a really close friend of mine) and at the end of game 1 my only permanents were a Soulbounded Silverblade Paladin with a Mother of Runes(i really mean those were the only permanents, he destroyed my vial and triple-wastelanded me, fortunately that wasn't enough to beat me)
Semifinals: RW Gobbos, i kept a loose hand on the play and got smashed by double lackey and a SGC, in game two i connected once with a SoFI and he never went back to game, and game 3 was a total trade off of removal spells until the poits where no one had creatures or cards in hand, i topdecked a silverblade paladin, equipped a Jitte in it and won by turnning sideways(i didn't draw a creature in 6 turns, i killed him with a no-bounded paladin! hahahaha)
Finals: NO RUG, he was playing with the deck i designed for him... we are both q'ued for the Legacy Nationals just by making the finals so we decided to ID and never know who is the real champion! hahahah
Final considerations: I removed the Aven from the deck, i love this lovely little birds but it wasn't doing enough to occupy that slot so i replaced him with a second Spirit of the Lab in the maindeck and replaced the Spirit in the board for another Canonist(she got a LOT better with all of those Cruise decks)
The Silverblades were the MVP's, i don't think i would play less than 2, of course he dies to eveything(like the rest of the deck) but if you play around removals during combat you should be in a good position.
The legacy national is within a mounth, either am i playing with DnT or with Battle of Wits(just have to find 300 matching sleeves hahah), but i think DnT is the most favored deck against this cruise-field!
It sounds like you managed to dodge playing against any Cruise decks though, no? I'd be pretty terrified of playing Silverblade against any of these decks with lots of instant speed spot removal.
Silverblade is a cool idea. I'm not sure if it's better or worse than Mirran Crusader, but double strike is definitely bonkers with any of the equipment this deck runs. Jitte especially allows for some really interesting tricks.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
I honestly haven't tried either. My burn MU is abysmal and basically depends on how bad the opposing player is. Once I realized I could be dedicating 4+ cards in the sideboard to it and probably still lose, I just said screw it.
My issue with CoP and (less so) with Aegis is of course holding mana open while they sandbag enough spells to power through it. The only real benefit with Aegis is that they have to potentially kill themselves to sandbag that many spells (and less mana is great.)
With an E Tutor board I'd probably do this or Sun Droplet. Champion does seem reasonable.
I would advise you that Smash to Smithereens is a common card in the Burn sideboard and Sun Droplet is and artifact.
Champion continues to impress me. I would advise others to test it if they expect heavy UR Delver or Burn.
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
I'm not at Eternal weekend, but I heard my buddy's name mentioned in the coverage ... Apparently he went pretty deep (picked up his second loss in round 9 of 10 I think) with a nonzero number of Chalices in his D&T build? It was a surprise to me to hear and it's possible that the commentators were just mistaken, but I think that's what I heard. I'll see if I can confirm that with him somehow.
@ Barbed Blightning - The Champion seems like some pretty sweet tech, definitely going to try it out next time I make it to a Legacy night out here. Definitely interested in testing the UR MU, haven't played since Cruise was released (!). Brimaz and Spirit also seem like they are gaining value in the new meta.
--
How much Delver would we need to expect to face to start to consider cutting Revokers? They do pretty much nothing in the Delver MUs; they are maybe at their best vs BUG when you can sort-of lock their DRS or Lili but I always find him underwhelming there anyway (2/1 dies to everything). Although I expect that they pull too much weight in the Miracles, Grieselbrand and random MUs to actually abandon completely...
I played D&T this weekend for a chance at a Lotus. There was a sharp drop off in prizes though, so I ended up losing in top 8, which didn't feel so bad, as after the last round I honestly thought I was out. Turns out I had the best breakers, as my two losses were top the 2nd and 5th seeds.
I played a fairly stock list, 23 lands with 2 Horizon Canopies. 26 creatures, 1 Mangara, 1 Crusader, 2 Spirit of the Labyrinth and the usual 2 equips (SoFaI, Jitte, BSkull).
Unfortunately, I did not trust my gut however, as I felt like there would be a good number of UR Delver and so my sideboard was a hot mess. I was on the fence about cutting a Judgment for a second Firewalker and ultimately did not. My loses were to the mirror (he had multiple board cards for the matchup and I had essentially none), to UR Delver in the swiss and to someone else on UR Delver in the top 8.
I was very lucky to make it as game 2 of round 4, Reanimator is up a game on me (turn 2 Reanimate Iona), he Force of Wills my RiP and again, Reanimates Iona on his turn 4 after a Careful Study to my board of a lone Mirran Crusader. I keep playing, hoping to find Vial and crawl back in to the game. After about 10 turns where I find double Port and am holding him off any mana, he begins to find lands, so he sets up for a SnT. I see it coming and since he has been frantically digging through his deck, I am wondering if he is going to try to land a Jin-Gitaxis. Am really worried about this, since if I am relegated to just top decks, I almost certainly can't race Iona. Instead, he plays Show and Tell, I put down Spirit he puts down Griselbrand. Well, now things are going to be real rough I think to myself. He then reaches for the Iona and swings. I look at the life totals and can't believe what I see. I am at 20, he is at 4. I untap, draw, he asks if he's dead. I say "protection from Black" swing with the Crusader and we are off to game 3.
Now, here is where it gets more nuts. Game 3, my opening 7 is 1 land, no Vial and I mull. 6 is 1 land, Vial, no action, which I debate, but feel it is too risky (probably should have kept though). 5 is zero lands. 4 is double Waste, 1 Relic, 1 Vial. Keep and resign myself to losing. I play Waste, Vial. He plays Sea, I believe on my turn Entombs Griselbrand in response to me wasting him. Either way, he has no land in play and a Grisel in the yard. Vial ticks to 2,I draw Swords to Plowshares, I play Relic and he Forces. He plays another Sea and Careful Studies, then passes. I waste him, tick Vail to 2. My draw is Spirit of the Labyrinth and I pass. He plays a Petal, plays Reanimate on Grisel. In response I Vial. Resolves and Spirit. He has Grisel and passes. My draw: Plains. Swords his Grisel. From there, he drew nothing, and Vial put in a derp every turn and I win.
The UR matchups were brutal wars of attrition. What cost me was not going with my feeling and having 2 Firewalkers and a COP: Red. 1 and 1 were just not enough. Both matches to 3 games, In my loss during the swiss I was broke off my multiple Smash to Smithereens. In my loss in the top 8, I was broke off by a Null Rod where I drew my 2nd and 3rd Equipment after Stoneforge for Batterskull. From there I drew land after land, so my prayer was for COP: Red (I had 8 mana). Unfortunately, Firewalker came too late to the party, I never found anything else, and died to Pyromancer tokens.
I feel going forward, I think I want 2 Firewalkers and a COP: Red in the board for the UR matchup. I feel it is absolutely winnable, but only with some preparation. Also, life totals are too important, I only wanted to run 1 Canopy, but ran 2. Drawing a Canopy in game 3 of my UR swiss matchup really cost me, as the 2 points of life I had to pay to have double white twice, cost me the game as I had lethal on board, but he hit me with enough tokens and the Bolt for the win.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
So,
finished 11th at a 40 players events yesterday running my own tweak on the list. Overall?
UR Delver is powerless against us. Spirit suited up with SoFaI is a lock by itself almost.
My only losses were against 12 Post (1-0) and Pox(WTF?!) running Empty the Pits.
Im only running 2 Revoker MD, but the list still requires some tuning.
The Firewalkers in the board were amazing.
Ill post my list tonight!
Champion is definitely good; mostly because you gain off your own creatures too. I would love to hear your results with it.
I have already cut a Revoker for some more power, Delver-focused cards; my list can be found on my blog here: http://enlightenedtutor.wordpress.com
Also, will you be attending the GP, Mr. Shine? If so I would like to see you again!
@H: sorry to hear about the bad beats; that Reanimator match was off the hook, though! I would recommend Auriok Champion for the UR Delver match, personally, maybe alongside a Firewalker.
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
I ran 2 Firewalker in the board.
Thalia is pretty bonkers against them.
Im seeing that MU as positive for us at this point IMHO, but im open to more in depth discussion.
I think I had some subpar luck, indeed, out of 6 games, I was force to mull in 3 of them, one of those to 5. Also, my opponents were prepared for D&T, they had multiple Smash to Smithereens at all times. I think they actually boarded 3 copies to be honest. I even had one guy Vapor Snag one of my creatures. I think the matchup is indeed positive for us, but only with a board designed to beat them. I am weary of cutting too many Revokers though, in game one I played one, jokingly naming Grim Lavamancer. In game 3, he played Grim Lavamancer (I had boarded out my Revokers),
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I don't think we should be shy about going for fewer Revokers. There are a few better creatures right now that we are not playing due to lack of room.
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