Page 4 of 533 FirstFirst 123456781454104504 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 10645

Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #61
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2006
    Location

    Lexington, KY
    Posts

    38

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by chmoddity View Post
    Funny you should say that. I faced MUC and won game one due to drawing two Stonecloakers and making his Vedalken Shackles fail just long enough to pound him. He got flustered and kept a one land hand game two. I had a very aggressive hand and he scooped by turn 6 or something. I played no Vials or Cataclysms in either game, but both would clearly have been bombs.

    That matchup scared the hell out of me. I do not recommend this deck against MUC. None of the disruption is geared towards it, so all you get is a deck of small creatures. Unless you get Mangara lock. Or vial. Or Cataclysm.
    Shit... That's what worries me. Resolving a Vial means I have to be on the draw with a good hand or I have to somehow bait the MUC player. Resolving a Cataclysm is that much harder. My meta has a lot of MUC & W/U Control, so I'm torn on whether to use this deck.

    I also have Angel Stompy, Scepter-Chant, Armageddon-Stax, & Enchantress' decks as my other options.

  2. #62
    Faerie Godfather

    Join Date

    Jul 2005
    Location

    Finland
    Posts

    1,617

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Na, it isn't that bad. If you resolve a Vial, you win, but your other cards are basically all credible threats too and they definitely don't want Mangaras, Avengers or even 2/2s resolving if they can help it. The fact that you can punish them for tapping out for their Vedalken Shackles really helps (Cataclysm if possible). MUC isn't optimal against decks that try to swarm. If they get Shackles down, don't panic, you can still win. If they can't steal Mangara, they'll either have to keep what they stole or give it back. Just don't attack into their blockers unnecessarily. It's pretty much the same as any aggro vs. MUC which honestly tends to be somewhat difficult for MUC, especially when you play cards that can remove Shackles, that can stifle Shackles (Karakas, uncounterable too), a bomb they have to counter (Cataclysm) and a huge number of creatures. They've always had trouble with Goblins for the same reason and they can't bring Hydroblasts in vs. you. Your best cards in the MU in addition to Vial and Cataclysm are really your lands; Karakas is awesome vs. Shackles and Rishadan Port is great vs. them in general.

  3. #63

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    So... has anyone besides me tested Auriok Champion in place of Silver Knight? My findings, I wouldn't consder going back to Silver Knight.

    Basically there are precious few match-ups where Silver Knight is actually better, and in those match-ups it is minimally better at best.

    A quick list comparing my findings about which creature is better in what match-up.

    Silver Knight
    - Goblins
    - The Mirror

    Auriok Champion
    - Anything w/ Empty the Warrens
    - Ichorid
    - Suiblack/Deadguy/RedDeath
    - CounterSlivers
    - Survival
    - Burn

    Roughly Equivalent
    - Threshold
    - Landstill
    - 43 Lands
    - Cephalid Breakfast

    I suppose it's not any sort of dynamic breakthrough to the deck. But I've been touting it for a bit now and I think others should atleast give it a try, especially now that it appears Goblins is on the wane.

  4. #64
    Member
    technogeek5000's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2006
    Location

    Shelton, CT
    Posts

    855

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Auriok seems ok. I dont know if its better against suiblack. I myself am a sui black player and i would just shrug and over whelm you if i had to face that down. Also, since i play the white splash, all my removal hits it and the negator still tramples over it.
    Call me Ishmael

  5. #65

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    The version I am currently working with includes trinisphere. I also run wastelands and ports. Here is my list, I would like some feedback:

    4 Serra Avenger
    4 Stonecloaker
    4 Mangara of Corondor
    4 Glowrider
    3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda

    4 Mana Tithe
    3 Trinisphere
    4 STP
    4 AEther Vial
    3 Jitte

    4 Wasteland
    4 R. Port
    4 Karakas
    4 Flagstones of Trokair
    8 Plains

    61 Total Cards

    SB:
    4 Hokori, Dust Drinker (meta is about 1/3 landstill...)
    4 Jotun Grunt
    3 Disenchant
    4 Tividar's Crusade (could run fewer, not many goblins anymore...)

  6. #66

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Why did you choose Trinisphere over Thorn of Amethyst? While you probably won't be hurt by the extra manacost incurred by Trinisphere half as much as your opponent will with the mana cheating of Aether Vial and Wasteland/Port disruption, I do think that Thorn of Amethyst would be better because I see it coming out quicker, and hurting yourself even less. If you've got Mana Tithe or Aether Vial in hand, that will almost definitely be played before you drop Thorn of Amethyst. Jitte and StP may be a bit hampered by it, but no more than Trinisphere would hamper them.

    Other suggestions... cut to 60 cards :). Oh, and if you haven't tested Cataclysm, try it out. I'm not saying it's a must, but it seems the more successful builds run it (this is a purely subjective observation). Flagstones of Trokair were included primarily to better abuse Cataclysm, otherwise there legendary status hardly makes them worthwhile. Even with Cataclysm, I only run three. And Tivadar of Thorn is equally as cool as Tivadar's Crusade in your sideboard - worth a glance.

    Otherwise I think you're list is pretty cool. I speculate that a build incorportating Thorn of Amethyst and Glowrider could possibly be even better than those using Cataclysm in a combo or control heavy meta. Good luck.

  7. #67
    Force of Will is my bitch
    Finn's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2004
    Location

    South Florida
    Posts

    2,979

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Galroth, I have been thinking along these lines as well. Here's a summary of my thought on the topic of Silver Knight - and beyond.

    1. Goblins has been perceived by enough people to be no longer good enough that it is destined to be down for a good long time whether or not that is true(ala Landstill two years ago).
    2. Threshold (and other decks for that matter) can now alter their gameplan in favor of card advantage over tempo ever so slightly. That means more of Accumulated Knowledge and Predict over cards like Serum Visions.
    3. That's a problem for this deck. We need to adapt. The first card I would cut without batting an eye is certainly the Knight.
    4. That got me going in a direction. Here's what I came up with.


    3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Serra Avenger
    2 Jotun Grunt
    3 Mangara of Corondor
    3 Stonecloaker
    3 Cataclysm

    3 Stifle
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    4 Aether Vial
    3 Umezawa's Jitte

    3 Karakas
    2 Flagstones of Trokair
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Tundra
    2 Hallowed Fountain
    3 Island

    sb:
    3 Daze
    3 Tivadar of Thorn
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    4 Meddling Mage
    2 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
    1 Stifle

    So you lose Rishidan Port and a lot of game against Goblins. And you lose a lot of frankly, random creatures. I really like the upside a lot. The land supply is slightly on the tender side, but only a bit.

    Ultimately, I think this build loses very little. Even Wasteland is not a guarantee against you with Stifle around.

    What dya all think?

  8. #68
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2006
    Location

    Lexington, KY
    Posts

    38

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Galroth, I have been thinking along these lines as well. Here's a summary of my thought on the topic of Silver Knight - and beyond.

    1. Goblins has been perceived by enough people to be no longer good enough that it is destined to be down for a good long time whether or not that is true(ala Landstill two years ago).
    2. Threshold (and other decks for that matter) can now alter their gameplan in favor of card advantage over tempo ever so slightly. That means more of Accumulated Knowledge and Predict over cards like Serum Visions.
    3. That's a problem for this deck. We need to adapt. The first card I would cut without batting an eye is certainly the Knight.
    4. That got me going in a direction. Here's what I came up with.

    So you lose Rishidan Port and a lot of game against Goblins. And you lose a lot of frankly, random creatures. I really like the upside a lot. The land supply is slightly on the tender side, but only a bit.

    Ultimately, I think this build loses very little. Even Wasteland is not a guarantee against you with Stifle around.

    What dya all think?
    The old build, although good, made you rely on topdecking if you encountered some major problem. I really like the inclusion of Blue. The new "Brainstorm" (Ponder) really helps you dig deeper into your library to try and find an answer to a problem. That gives you 8 ways to filter your draw.

    One thing I'm worried about though is the weaker Goblin game. Despite the decline of Goblins as a DTB, I don't think we're quite done with them yet. Every major tournament had at least 1 Goblin deck make it to the top 8. It seems a lot of the Gob players are really excited about the new cards in Lorwyn. With more options with the black splash, we might see some a resurrected goblins because of Lorwyn.

    Is the removal of Samurai of the Pale Curtain for Jotun Grunt worth it? Apparently Cephalid Breakfast is the new DTB with UGx (specifically UGr) Threshold right behind it. Cephalid Breakfast also has a somewhat rough time against UGx Threshold due to the amount of counters it has. Wouldn't maindecking SotPC be better than sideboarding it?

    SotPC is the card to use vs Cephalid Breakfast since they use the GY quite heavily. Jotun is too slow vs that deck. However, UGr threshold has a lot of burn, meaning it can take out your SotPC to start having it's GY filled again. In this matchup, Jotun Grunt is the card to use since UGr Threshold has to use 2-for-1 trades to get rid of him.

    I don't know though, I guess it all depends on your metagame. I do like the blue splash though.

  9. #69

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Samurai of the Pale Curtain only works on permanents going to te graveyard, it is not useful against Cephalid Breakfast since they mill their library. It is however good against Ichorid and Wasteland recursion (shouldn't be a problem) and very nice against ******** to keep them off lands in the graveyard and as a treshed mongoose blocker. But, I also have replaced him with the Grunt, since my meta is not Ichorid heavy, and the Grunt simply is better against ********.

  10. #70
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2006
    Location

    Lexington, KY
    Posts

    38

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by smoky squirrel View Post
    Samurai of the Pale Curtain only works on permanents going to te graveyard, it is not useful against Cephalid Breakfast since they mill their library. It is however good against Ichorid and Wasteland recursion (shouldn't be a problem) and very nice against ******** to keep them off lands in the graveyard and as a treshed mongoose blocker. But, I also have replaced him with the Grunt, since my meta is not Ichorid heavy, and the Grunt simply is better against ********.
    Gah... gg reading comprehension. Sorry about that. I guess that answers my question. Samurai in SB & Grunt in MD.

  11. #71

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Galroth View Post
    Why did you choose Trinisphere over Thorn of Amethyst? While you probably won't be hurt by the extra manacost incurred by Trinisphere half as much as your opponent will with the mana cheating of Aether Vial and Wasteland/Port disruption, I do think that Thorn of Amethyst would be better because I see it coming out quicker, and hurting yourself even less. If you've got Mana Tithe or Aether Vial in hand, that will almost definitely be played before you drop Thorn of Amethyst. Jitte and StP may be a bit hampered by it, but no more than Trinisphere would hamper them.

    Other suggestions... cut to 60 cards :). Oh, and if you haven't tested Cataclysm, try it out. I'm not saying it's a must, but it seems the more successful builds run it (this is a purely subjective observation). Flagstones of Trokair were included primarily to better abuse Cataclysm, otherwise there legendary status hardly makes them worthwhile. Even with Cataclysm, I only run three. And Tivadar of Thorn is equally as cool as Tivadar's Crusade in your sideboard - worth a glance.

    Otherwise I think you're list is pretty cool. I speculate that a build incorportating Thorn of Amethyst and Glowrider could possibly be even better than those using Cataclysm in a combo or control heavy meta. Good luck.
    I like the suggestion of Thorn of Amethyst. It would definitely hurt my opponent more than it would hinder me. I have experimented with Sphere of Resistance and Tangle Wire, also, but Trinisphere seemed to hurt other decks the most. I will grab a few Thorn's and try them out. Thanks for the input!

  12. #72
    Wonderlust Viscount

    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    Hartford, CT
    Posts

    361

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    3 Karakas
    2 Flagstones of Trokair
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Tundra
    2 Hallowed Fountain
    3 Island
    Given this mana base, have you considered cutting a Island, and putting in a Minamo, School at Waters Edge?

    It is sort of a second Karakas in many ways, and has to potental to be stone cold nuts with Mangara.

    Seems like the (slightly) increased vulnrability to wasteland might be worth the savage midgame beatings it would enable.

    BTW, first post in this thread. I fully support all the work people have been doing in developing this deck. It is very cool. Props.
    LED, LED, Announce my intention to play Yawgmoth's Bargain...

  13. #73
    Do I look like a guy with a plan?
    Wallace's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    East Syracuse, NY
    Posts

    1,234

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCramp View Post
    Given this mana base, have you considered cutting a Island, and putting in a Minamo, School at Waters Edge?

    It is sort of a second Karakas in many ways, and has to potental to be stone cold nuts with Mangara.
    I agree, Minamo seems like it would be broken with Mangara. You could pull off some sick tricks for little mana. For those of you that don't know Minamo

    Team Fat Man & Little Boy

    Quote Originally Posted by pingveno View Post
    On to stone rain, Clark Kant; is a 'timewalk' as good as a threat?

  14. #74
    Wonderlust Viscount

    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    Hartford, CT
    Posts

    361

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacearuse View Post
    I agree, Minamo seems like it would be broken with Mangara. You could pull off some sick tricks for little mana.
    Like Isamaru w/ Jitte is nothing to scoff at for example.
    LED, LED, Announce my intention to play Yawgmoth's Bargain...

  15. #75
    Force of Will is my bitch
    Finn's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2004
    Location

    South Florida
    Posts

    2,979

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Hey, we could use it to untap the Jitte!!!! Excellent.

    Seriously, though. That is a pretty good idea. I used this card back when the deck was only casual and it was actually quite good.

    I haven't heard much from Phaerimm Archlord. Is he still playing Magic?

  16. #76

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    A question in general, but particularly directed at chmoddity.

    The weakest spots in my build are the two drop creatures. I have 12 slots dedicated to them and I wouldn't mind using less if somebody can present a fantastic 1 drop or 3 drop beyond isamaru, mangara, and glowrider. Wizards just makes alot of great 2 drops... like I said though, they're still my weakest slots.

    I feel 4x Serra Avenger and 2x Jotun Grunt are a must (Jotun for any meta bound to see a good turnout of thresh). But that leaves me with 6x spots left. I really like how Samurai of the Pale Curtain has been performing, so 3x went to him. I chose Auriok Champion over Silver Knight, but there are a whole slew of fantastic 2-drops out there that I want to know if I'm missing something. I was considering True Believer for awhile. He was pretty much main-decked or sideboarded. I saw your tremendous winning streak included 2x True Believer main-deck. Do I have recommendations for True Believer or any other creature?

  17. #77

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Galroth View Post
    A question in general, but particularly directed at chmoddity.

    The weakest spots in my build are the two drop creatures. I have 12 slots dedicated to them and I wouldn't mind using less if somebody can present a fantastic 1 drop or 3 drop beyond isamaru, mangara, and glowrider. Wizards just makes alot of great 2 drops... like I said though, they're still my weakest slots.

    I feel 4x Serra Avenger and 2x Jotun Grunt are a must (Jotun for any meta bound to see a good turnout of thresh). But that leaves me with 6x spots left. I really like how Samurai of the Pale Curtain has been performing, so 3x went to him. I chose Auriok Champion over Silver Knight, but there are a whole slew of fantastic 2-drops out there that I want to know if I'm missing something. I was considering True Believer for awhile. He was pretty much main-decked or sideboarded. I saw your tremendous winning streak included 2x True Believer main-deck. Do I have recommendations for True Believer or any other creature?
    Believer, it makes it so you don't scoop to combo.

  18. #78
    I clench my fists and yell "anime" towards an uncaring, absent God
    Nihil Credo's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    59°50'59.11" N, 17°34'55.69" E
    Posts

    4,702

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Combo will just EtW for 12 in the face of a True Believer. Or Belcher the Believer first. I have never really liked Believer in the MD.
    YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.

  19. #79
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2006
    Location

    Lexington, KY
    Posts

    38

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Hey, we could use it to untap the Jitte!!!! Excellent.

    Seriously, though. That is a pretty good idea. I used this card back when the deck was only casual and it was actually quite good.
    I remember those decks. You had a W/G and a W/U. I really liked the W/U because you had multiple tricks and Cloud of Faeries was in that deck.

    Hmm.... I'm really liking this dual color blue list. I need to decide if I'm going to chance it and play it at a small local legacy tournament. I banked on playing the mono-white. The problem is that I have no clue what my local metagame is.

  20. #80

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I first thought of maindecking Auriok Champion for Empty the Warrens. Turns out she's pretty damn good and usually buys you enough time to deal with all of the tokens.

    Where does True Believer really shine? In the Belcher matchup I don't know if Believer or Champion is better. Tendrils combo believer is better. Deadguy and other black disruption decks True Believer is probably better, but Auriok Champion would still be my second choice for a creature on account of pro-black. Solidarity Believer is strictly better. Do I worry about these matchups enough to weaken my aggro matchups slightly?

    I'd really like to here some peoples experience concerning the viability of True Believer.

    Or I could just run a splash and not worry about these slots...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)