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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #8441

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    My site's been around for a year now. Here's an article reflecting on the past year and looking forward to the next.

  2. #8442
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by azeotropes View Post
    Great performance! I went 6-3 (2 byes from GPT and 1 win from no show). I had a hard time against Stoneblade (Esper and Bant Deathblade). I'm clueless as to what to do in the matchup and wanted to ask for advice. @Koke_MTG What was your strategy and overall gameplan? How did you win? My esper opponent had all the removal... and the Bant Opponent got TNN on the field quickly.

    Also, I have questions for your sideboard. What matches did you bring 2nd prelate for?, and when did you board in the 2x Palace Jailer? Thanks!
    Stoneblade is a tricky matchup I believe. That is also one of the reasons why I was hesitant to play Death and Taxes right after the ban. I played against Esper Stoneblade before the ban and got beaten pretty bad, they have a lot of cards to 2-for-1 you all the time (Engineered Explosives, Lingering Souls, Jitte and postboard Zealous Persecution). Especially with Swords and Fatal Push and Snapcaster it really is capable of grinding you out. They also have a catch all answer in Council's Judgment, the extremely annoying True Name Nemesis and the Stoneforge package as well.
    I did sideboard incorrectly back then, but the key plan is obviously to lock them down as good as possible, cards like Thalia (which I boarded out because I thought I want to resolve Council's Judgment and Gideons) are actually super important to make Snapcaster more inefficient.

    Sword of Light and Shadow can help to plow through SFM and Spirit tokens and you can also consider dedicating a slot in your board for Manriki Gusari. I have only played Stoneblade once so far and f'ed that one up, so I don't have a real sample size so far, but the matchup does feel bad.
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  3. #8443
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    @Phil: you deserve a lot of praise for your site. I actually read someone recommend it on another site when D+T came up.

    @Adan: I don't think I ever once beat Esper Blade, or maybe just once. But I feel the same as you. It is the worst of the blue-centric matchups. I recall thinking that my opponent seemed to strangely have such good tools to handle me - every time. And I never really got around to solving the deck because it is not quite mainstream. But graveyard hate seems well placed here.
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  4. #8444

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    @Adan: I don't think I ever once beat Esper Blade, or maybe just once. But I feel the same as you. It is the worst of the blue-centric matchups. I recall thinking that my opponent seemed to strangely have such good tools to handle me - every time. And I never really got around to solving the deck because it is not quite mainstream. But graveyard hate seems well placed here.
    I fully agree with it being one of the worst blue-centric matchups, my thoughts on it is that having access to BS, Ponder to find SFM is really strong in the matchup. I tend to describe a lot like a 1 sided DnT mirror matchup where they find SFM more consistently and have more removal to prevent our own equipment from getting the job done. However, I personally have never been a fan of bringing in graveyard hate against snapcaster based decks. Rest in peace and surgical, both seem like card disadvantage to me in the matchup where we are on the beatdown plan (at least that is how I try to play it). I would rather have my creatures and or removal (sadly CJ cause you know TNN will come ruin your day if you don't).

    I would love to here you reasoning for graveyard hate and others' feelings on the matchup and boarding plans.

  5. #8445
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I'm not sure if he means Esper Blade or Deathblade; but if you see Deathrite's, obviously RiP becomes much better. The main second thing it hits are Lingering Souls, which IME are pretty good against D&T if Thalia isn't killing your mana.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  6. #8446

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    I'm not sure if he means Esper Blade or Deathblade; but if you see Deathrite's, obviously RiP becomes much better. The main second thing it hits are Lingering Souls, which IME are pretty good against D&T if Thalia isn't killing your mana.
    Yea I was working off the Esper Blade matchup, I actually think the Esper Deathblade matchup is easier than straight Esper. Yea you are right with RiP being better if Mr. 1 mana planeswalker is involved. Souls is pretty good against us, we can't even use flickerwisp to fly over them :(

  7. #8447

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I don't think I've ever lost a match to Esper (with or without drs) in a tournament. It's a very tricky match-up, but not as bad as UWR blade or Bant deathblade. Esper is a very mana hungry deck, which is often the best angle of tackling it. It has better cards and removal than D&T (as a virtue of playing 3-4 colors), but it has no vial and lower threat and answer density than us. They do have the cantrips to sculpt their hands with the right threats and answers, but that costs mana and time, both of which D&T is very good at denying. You can also beat them in the longer game post side by boarding in devastating hate such as manriki-gusari, gideon or cataclysm/armageddon.

    I wouldn't board in Rest in Peace, as it only marginally affects their cards and does little to address the most serious dangers the deck poses (i.e. equipment in combination with true-name and/or lingering souls, planeswalkers and devastating sweepers such as zealous persecution and engineered explosives). I would board out plows in exchange for more flexible removal that can hit true-names and a few moms to compensate for their sweepers coming in.

  8. #8448
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by azeotropes View Post
    Great performance! I went 6-3 (2 byes from GPT and 1 win from no show). I had a hard time against Stoneblade (Esper and Bant Deathblade). I'm clueless as to what to do in the matchup and wanted to ask for advice. @Koke_MTG What was your strategy and overall gameplan? How did you win? My esper opponent had all the removal... and the Bant Opponent got TNN on the field quickly.

    Also, I have questions for your sideboard. What matches did you bring 2nd prelate for?, and when did you board in the 2x Palace Jailer? Thanks!
    Well, the matchup against different Stoneblade variants is quite hard IMO. I still loose a lot against them but luckily for me that day was great in all aspects. Sometimes I just won trough the bomb-after-bomb plan going deep in the card advantage mode, others I managed to keep my opponent off his Jitte counters with some kind of creature lock, others they had a hard time with our mana denial plan... and for sure I faced no more than once or twice an early TNN wich is great for you to set up a clear gameplan without an early constant clock... and when these aspects are joined could be a pleasure to play against Stonebade decks for sure!

    Referring to my sideboard choices I really wanted the 2nd Prelate in my 75 because I expected a lot of Grixis Delver and Storm basically, and followed near by Sneak & Show/OmniShow decks and RG Lands, that I think is really popular there. I brought the 2nd vs UB Death's Shadow, Kevin King's 4C Control, 4C Loam, RG Lands and both UW and UWR Stoneblade decks. I changed a bit my sideboard plan against the 2nd 4C Control I believe.

    I opted to go back to a couple of SB Palace Jailers looking the raise of Miracles on MTGO and thinking that old-Miracles experts were going to run the deck they're most comfortable with again seeing that it's quite good and solid. In addition, I really like Palace Jailer over another Gideon, Ally of Zendikar because you can drop him through Vial or Cavern and gives you some kind of versatility against decks not reached by the walker like BG Turbo Depths, Lands, Sneak & Show or even Reanimator, what is really thankful in such a large event. As with Prelate, I value a lot those kind of cards that are OK/great vs different strategies and in different game types for large events... That's what I try with every card in my sideboard.

    I believe I boarded them in vs both Depths.deck, 4C Loam, RG Lands, both UW and UWR Stoneblade, D&T mirror (just 1) and BUG Delver "Malimujo version" (just 1 as well).
    In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except DEATH & TAXES

  9. #8449

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    As a player of both the new Miracles and Death & Taxes, I will say that the best card vs the Miracles deck is a modest Sanctum Prelate for 1. Palace Jailer is fine, but swingy. The new Miracles is on 3x Mentors on average right now and that is the scariest card to play against when you have a monarch emblem in play. If the average number of Mentors goes down to two, I will jump at the chance to play Jailer.

    Also, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben + Karakas is far more annoying to play against compared to Miracles of the old.

  10. #8450

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    43 player tournamet today, went 4-2 playing almost the same list as my last tournament, only with palace jailer instead of gideon in the side (can be found some pages back).

    R1: Burn 2-0.
    New player, made some mistakes and then this is an easy match-up.

    R2: White Eldrazi 1-2.
    This would have been winable, but I had to mull to 5 game 1 into a land with two vials and he had chalice on the play. Game 2, he lands Eldrazi Displacer + Containment Priest, but I have two Flickerwisp to abuse his priest and win with equipment. Game 3 goes the same way when he shuts off vial with priest and I use flickerwisp to deal with Reality Smasher, but then I topdeck 5 land and a vial in a row, while he has smuggler's copter which helps him find reality smasher and thought-knot seer for the win.

    R3: Budget Infect 2-0.
    Game 1 he missplays allowing me to stabilize with Recruiter for Pontiff, followed by jitte at 9 poison. Game 2 Judge's Familiar can come in with jitte and counters a critical berserk.

    R4: Burn 2-1.
    Very tight games. Game 1 I punt and lose, not attacking with jitte on mother and not blocking his biggest swiftspear. Game 2 I steal by playing conservatively with batterskull, blanking his smash to smithereens. Game 3 I can race him with flyers despite flooding out because I can surprise block a swiftspear with avenger, plow a harsh mentor and port him as much as possible while still playing around price of progress.

    R5: Grixis control 0-2.
    Didn't stand anything ressembling a chance. I probably misboarded by not putting rest in peace in, but even then it still seems like an absolutely horrible match-up. Game 1 he plays probe with 2 therapy and 2 kolaghan's command, leaving me with nothing. Game 2 he goes probe into therapy again, then I die to kolaghan's command, snap kolaghan's command, toxic deluge, sudden demise and fatal push (not in that order, but still).

    R6: TES 2-0.
    We both mull and keep apparently bad hands (me no hate, he only hate), but I manage to beat him to death with wisps before he can go off and after he therapy's my stoneforges away. Game 2 he therapy's both thalia and canonist away as I'm stuck on 1 mana. I do land stoneforge for batterskull, coming in for two hits. He can't manage to combo off properly for 14 storm and dies to his own ad nauseam.

    White eldrazi match-up was just bad luck, this would be quite do-able normally. But Grixis control seemed quite problematic. Might be better when boarding in rest in peace, as they do rely a lot on snapcaster and therapy and it hurts angler. Might also be worth it to consider playing Gideon again or something with both pro black and pro red, but not sure if the deck will be common enough to warrant this. Mirran Crusader is quite the problem for them, as a lot of their removal is black-based.

  11. #8451
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Emurian View Post
    [quote about LS] IMO this card is underrated. I played with sword of light and shadow last week in my deadguy ale list, managed to score a shared first place with lands that day at our local tournament.
    Don't say I didn't tell you guys that Light and Shadow is legit [just little sidenote, keep in mind your MOM cant target your creature holding the sword, might be relevant]

    Regarding stoneblade decks, the way I always approached them is: They might have better card selection, and a more consistent hand, but we have more creatures, and maindeck answers to negate their first SFM drop [Revoker]

    Most of the fair blue decks share the same ''problem'' they have a creature count of 15 orso on average versus the 26 of us due to the card selection that they added with blue
    Its more a battle of endurance, because they need to dig for their threaths they focus more on removing stuff on the board early. Thus it means that you should just keep dumping creatures on the board untill they are out of removal. Likewise, if they land a creature, and you happen being able to remove it early [STP or Path] then it tends to buy you a turn as they need to dig again for another threat.

    They don't like our flyers, so if they leave a flyer of yours alive its a good indication that they have 0 removal on hand at that point.

    There was a period at my shop where I saw an uptick in decks wielding equipment, if you can make a somewhat educated guess that 20% of the field is using equipment please do yourself a favor and slot Manriki in your sideboard.

    The only shitty part is if they get an active jitte online before we do, the only decent way out of that g1 is either vialing in revoker, or going vial > wisp > jitte and then A: Connect with yours if its on the field, B: Hardcast revoker.

    Just don't expand the board beyond 3 creatures unless you feel urged to close the gap fast. [Miracle style tactic sort to say]
    Decks I own: 2x DnTx [B,G,R], Deadguy Ale, Maverick, Elves, Enchantress [WG/GU], Goblins, (Shardless) BUG, Food Chain, Aluren, High tide (reset/spiral), UR delver, RUG delver, Grixis Delver, Reanimator, Lands, Dark Depths (turbo / selesnya / hoogaak)

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  12. #8452
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Emurian View Post
    Don't say I didn't tell you guys that Light and Shadow is legit
    I will say you weren't the first. We played SoFI+SoLS+Jitte before Batterskull was printed.
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  13. #8453
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by kirbysdl View Post
    I will say you weren't the first. We played SoFI+SoLS+Jitte before Batterskull was printed.
    Same here, Replaced the SoLaS with Batterskull shortly after it came out, undid the switch close to a year ago, got tired of Batterskull stuck in my hand and SoLaS can give pretty crazy CA with the critter recursion.
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  14. #8454

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I still think SoLaS isn't particularly good and to play it over batterskull is just bad. Late game it turns a 1/2 into a 4/4 lifelink vigilance and can also be equipped to any other creature to make them bigger than anything else. Batterskull should always be in the maindeck I feel and being frustrated that's it's stranded in hand sometimes is not a good enough reason to cut it. Trust me, I've been there

  15. #8455

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I was curious what people thought about having a DnT specific Discord or something. I know some other archtypes (eg Miracles) have them and I wondered if there would be enough interest in one that we could start one up. Lemme know what people think, or if there is already one that exists I will accept that I'm oblivious and ask for a link

  16. #8456

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by staticgripped View Post
    I was curious what people thought about having a DnT specific Discord or something. I know some other archtypes (eg Miracles) have them and I wondered if there would be enough interest in one that we could start one up. Lemme know what people think, or if there is already one that exists I will accept that I'm oblivious and ask for a link
    Someone emailed me about this awhile back and I never got around to a real reply. There's definitely a market for it.

  17. #8457

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I am obviously late posting this, but I went to Cleveland and played in the Legacy Champs trial and finished 4-1. Figure it's worth reporting my results. Here was my list.
    Creatures: (27)
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Flickerwisp
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Mirran Crusader
    2 Serra Avenger
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Spirit of the Labyrinth

    Spells: (11)
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Lands: (22)
    9 Plains
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    3 Karakas
    1 Cavern of Souls
    1 Flagstones of Trokair

    Sideboard:
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Council's Judgment
    2 Containment Priest
    1 Path to Exile
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    1 Sword of War and Peace
    1 Sanctum Prelate

    As you can see I played something very similar to Calderon's GP winning list. I hadn't played Legacy in a while, really had only done commentary at a local Quest for Power in the past few months, and felt his list was really solid. I also wanted to try 22 lands since I was a firm believer of 23 and wanted to see if there was a noticeable difference. In the end I cut a Cavern for a Plains to increase white sources, Cut a Canopy for a Flagstones to still have non-basics to fight Massacre but not take damage or have them wastable, and changed the sideboard based on expectations and because I just disagreed with some of his choices. Tournament was 5 rounds roughly 50 people.

    R1: vs. Lands W (2-0)
    I've played lands dozens of times now and I know the matchup like the back of my hand. 2 Vials overpowered his loam hand, and a tiny misstep let me land Prelate on 2. Flickerwisp killed Marit Leige and the game was over.
    SB:
    In- 1 Sanctum Prelate, 2 RIP, 2 Surgical, 1 Needle, 1 Path
    Out- 2 Mirran Crusader, 3 Plow, 1 Revoker, 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    Game two was standard fair. Turn 2 rest in peace, I have my needle for his maze of ith, I have wasteland to hold off his combo, I exile his Tabernacle and flood to board and he is just overwhelmed.
    (1-0)

    R2: vs. "Miracles" L (0-2)
    I have been jamming games vs this deck non-stop lately. We aren't favored here. The addition of unexpectedly absent and the rise in predict to an auto 4-of makes this rough. Game one goes as planned for him. He kills my offense, lands a Jace on an empty board, rides it on home. Not close.
    SB:
    In- 1 Sanctum Prelate, 2 Council's Judgment, 1 Gideon, 1 Needle, 1 Sword of War and Peace
    Out- 1 Mother of Runes, 4 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Umezawa's Jitte
    I knew from last round overhearing him he wasn't on mentor so I didn't think any plows were necessary. He gets me though with containment priest, into force my council's judgment, into entreat for 3 back-to-back-to-back. Ended up sort of close, but not really.
    (1-1)

    R3: vs. 4C Waterfalls W (2-1)
    This was my buddy who drove to the event in our 9 person caravan. My brother, him, and I all came for Legacy. Shame to play him at 1-1, but that's how it goes. Game one is brutal for him. I thrash him with 2 vials and a ton of threats. Stoneforge helps make everything a threat and another grabs batterkull. He has 2 Ancestrals on suspend at 2 when I recruiter for spirit and he packs it in.
    SB:
    In- 1 Path to Exile, 1 Gideon, 2 Council's Judgment
    Out- 2 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Thalia, 1 Sanctum Prelate
    My goal is to play defensively game two. Canonist isn't worth it since it only shuts off his 2 Bloodbraid Elves. Also Path is good since he has no basics. Game two I mull to six and keep a clunky hand that gets thoughtseize and hymn'd. 2 moms is a good defense, but not much of an offense. I also was stuck on port, wasteland, karakas so I couldn't cast all the sweet WW cards I was drawing. Anthony meanwhile had a ton of gas and eventually just overwhelmed me.
    SB:
    In- 1 Thalia
    Out- 1 Mom
    I was gonna do this regardless of how game two played out. I wanted to switch to more aggression on the play. All in all though I got a nut draw. Vial into stoneforge, put in mom, judgment your Leovold, Batterskull and Avenger arrive, next turn here's crusader, etc. Game ends with him having no creatures, 1 life, 3 lands, and me having a full board.
    (2-1)

    R4: vs. Esper Deathblade W (2-0)
    I don't really even wanna talk about this match as much as I wanna talk about something I feel regarding Legacy and Magic in general. I don't expect everyone to agree with what I am about to say. Magic should be fun first and foremost, and people need to stop taking the game so seriously. Guy tried to rules shoot me all match and got me once in game 2 with Clique, targeting me and taking my 1 card when I had Spirit out. I forgot and said, "Draw?" and he didn't respond then smugly called judge when I did draw. I comprehend it's competitive REL, I comprehend that we all wanna win. I just feel, myself, that this game should be played with more integrity and with the main goal of having fun and playing an honest game of Magic. Just my 2 cents. I stomped him game one with SoFaI and squeaked out G2 with a timely Avenger to block Clique. Here's my sideboarding.
    In- 2 Council's Judgment, 1 Sword of War and Peace, 1 Gideon, 1 Pithing Needle
    Out- 1 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Mother of Runes, 1 Flickerwisp, 2 Mirran Crusader (I clearly am not 100% on boarding out here)

    R5: vs. Burn ID (but still won 2-0)
    We agreed to draw to split the tickets but we played anyway. Game one I stabilize at 10 life and stoneforge, Jitte, mom, thalia, really the whole crew dominate. I got a great draw here.
    In- 1 Sanctum Prelate, 1 Sword of War and Peace, 2 Ethersworn Canonist, 2 Council's Judgment, 1 Path to Exile
    Out- 2 Mirran Crusader, 1 Serra Avenger, 2 Phyrexian Revoker, 1 Sword of Fire and Ice, 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    Game two I get down Prelate with him stuck on one land and yet fall to 6 off of response bolt and searing blaze when he drew land (though I protected it with Flickerwisp). But I draw Jitte and run away with the game and end the weekend an unofficial 4-1
    Final Record: (3-1-1)(officially) (4-1)

    Had an absolute blast, was super pumped to play legacy again also. List felt awesome, need to test it more to know for sure some things. I don't like Sword but thought it was a good choice when looking around before the event. Would probably play either a second Gideon or maybe a Palace Jailer in the future. Spirit was actually solid and I never wished it was a Plains, because that would have been land 23 if I had had to make the choice. I would recommend my list to any DNT pilot and will say that I will probably be running 22 lands from here on out.

    Final Thoughts:
    -Legacy is great
    -Community is great
    -DNT community is great
    -I still think SoLaS is mediocre at best
    -Consistency of mono-white is great

  18. #8458
    Bear Cub &gt; Tarmogoyf

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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Marungo View Post
    R2: vs. "Miracles" L (0-2)
    I have been jamming games vs this deck non-stop lately. We aren't favored here.
    staticgripped and I mentioned this last page, but it didn't get much attention. It's pretty clear that UW(r) control isn't going anywhere. What's the key here? Canonists and Spirits main would help control their 30 or so cantrips, but they're awfully squishy with multiple card types and low toughness. Do we go Gideon, and get blown out by the white Boomerang?
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  19. #8459

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by kirbysdl View Post
    staticgripped and I mentioned this last page, but it didn't get much attention. It's pretty clear that UW(r) control isn't going anywhere. What's the key here? Canonists and Spirits main would help control their 30 or so cantrips, but they're awfully squishy with multiple card types and low toughness. Do we go Gideon, and get blown out by the white Boomerang?
    If we really wanna dedicate cards for this matchup then Armageddon is better now than it was against old miracles. And I guess cataclysm too though I've made clear my dislike for that card in the past. It just depends on how serious we wanna dedicate cards for this matchup. Cause cards like geddon are good in very very limited matchups other than Miracles

  20. #8460

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I have gotten a couple PM's suggesting that having a Discord server would be a good idea, so I made one.

    https://discord.gg/EqTF7y5

    Currently I installed Scryfall bot, and have rooms for general, decklists, tournament_reports, pimp, and off_topic. If people want anything else be it integrating things or other rooms let me know. Invite any DnT players you know.

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