I haven't played cataclysm in ages. What matchups has it been great for?Originally Posted by Medea_
Hello all!
This past weekend I played in the TJ's Collectibles 1k at the DCU center and ended up placing second. Below is the link to the tourney report I wrote up.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
Hope you all enjoy the tourney report and if you have any questions about the report, deck, or playstyle, please ask! I'll be happy to answer them.
That was a fun read. Your writing feels sincere, and you have a wonderfully clear manner of expression. Thanks for the link.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
Okay, I've raised an eyebrow at a new card now.
What would you play this against?
Turn 4 seems late against Storm.
Against discard decks it seems fine as it doesn't die to Fatal Push / Lightning bolt, however it's still 4 mana and coming after the turn 1/2 discard.
If you are playing it for the hexproof for creatures, i think that restoration angel is still better because it can be played from hand at instant speed and also can be used just to blink a value creature.
I like the fact that this card is available (Leyline of sanctity on steroids and on legs. Could be a one of in the side max. and i'm thinking more about the Zero main zero side :)
Maybe i'm too hard. Please proove me that i'm wrong :)
I bet it has more application in Modern. Thing is - is this card really better than what we have now? Thalia (main), Ethersworn Canonist (side), and a few others are really very effective. I mean, think of all of the things we don't use much at all and don't cost 4. If this thing protected itself, I might give it more room, but it has to be paired with something else or it is just a slow Seht's Tiger.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
It'd certainly make toys easier to attach, and free up a lot of Mom's time. She might bake more cookies then.
On another note, is anyone else trying out Stalking Leonin? He's like a 3/3 vigilance Royal Assassin.
Also, it doesn't stop Dread of Night, Massacre, Zealous Persecution, Pyroclasm, or any other "each/all creature(s)" effects we deal with. It's not good enough for me to play it.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
@Egget
I don't really post much but I've had an awesome night and wanted to share my excitement a bit.
So a bit of backround. I've played a little bit of Burn, B/R Reanimator, and U/R Delver in the past but A25 finally helped me build DnT. Since then I've watched ALL of Medea_' s streams and any other coverage I could find. I also borrowed a friend's DnT deck on Modo and have been practicing the past 2 weeks in preparation for a trial this weekend.
So I played in 5 leagues so far and at first I was bad. 1-4 and 0-5. then I got a bit of traction and for 3-2 back to back. Finally my efforts were rewarded when I got my first ever 5-0!
My list is the stock 4 crusader list on Thraben University but my SB was not optimal as I do not have all of the cards I'd have liked.
Creatures:
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sanctum Prelate
4 Mother of Runes
4 Flickerwisp
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Instants:
4 Swords to Plowshares
Artifacts:
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Land:
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
12 Plains
Sideboard:
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Council's Judgment
1 Pithing Needle
3 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Cataclysm
Match 1 was Elves...
G1 - I lost to an extremely fast craterhoof.
G2 - A combination of ethersworn canonist, needle, and Jit te got there.
G3 - My opponent mulled to 1 and conceeded.
Match 2 was R/G Lands
This one was a Modo win as the clock was the deciding factor.
G1 - This game went pretty well as thalia, mom and 3 total wisps got there.
G2 - This game went very very long but I ended up conceding to 3 Maze of Ith and pushing fire beats.
G3 - This game was heavily in my OP's favor but in the end he had 17 secs left and I cast cataclysm so he conceded. Not the best way to win but what can you do.
Match 3 was against Storm.
G1 - He got there with an empty for 12 and I was a little to late getting batterskull out.
G2 - Thalia, and ethersworn canonist got there.
G3 - I had a mom, thalia, and canonist out and my OP down to 7. he double bounces both and attempts to go off. he plays an Ad Nauseum and goes 1 but doesn't find the win and concedes.
Match 4 was Grixis Delver
TBH these are a bit of a blur
G1 - This game went long as we were both stalling whole mana screwed but flickerwisps ended up being the faster clock.
G2 - I answered a T3 True-name wth council's judgment and thalia and Jitte got there.
Match 5 also Grixis Delve
G1 - Thalia and 3 on board Crusaders was to much for him.
G2 - I was fairly aggressive but my OP stabilized with Gurmag, Young Pyromancer, and 3 Deathrites.
G3 - My OP was low on lands but had a flipped delver young finances, and two tokens on board while I had nothing but 4 lands and jitte on board and a wisp in hand. I played the wisp grtting rid of the token and equipped. I proceeded to pray that my OP ran out of bolts clearing my board. After a minute or two my prayers were answered and my opponent concedes!
So this is probably typed out horribly and a bit vague but I'm extremely proud and excited to try to it out this sunday.
@amagon
Congrats! The first 5-0 means the most. Now that you've gotten that out of the way, try to tick up that trophy count! Here's a quote from a user who doesn't post much anymore, but it always stuck with me:
"I’m pretty new to the deck myself, having picked it up in April. Sometimes other players approach me and state their intention to try it out. I always tell them I spent my first 3 months with the deck losing. The deck is hard to play…It’s ultimately extremely rewarding, but until the Nirvana of owning the board with a few white creatures, an artifact, and a handful of lands can be reached, a lot of dues need to be paid." -MtG:Salvation user Lormador
I've never read that quote but it really does sum up the real motivation behind playing D&T. I have a substantial Magic collection and friends will always ask me why I'm not playing Delver or S&S or whichever deck is the current "Deck to Beat". "It's Legacy!" they say "Why aren't you playing brainstorm? Force of will??"
There's just something about playing in a format with T2 Emrakuk's and T1 3/2 Flyers and you're playing with a bunch of grizzly bears beating 'em down for 2 to 5 each turn. For me... it's that moment, that happens against anyone who isn't an exceptionally grizzled legacy veteran, when they look down at the board of random top-tier draft cards and, astonished and confused, ask themselves "How did I possibly lose this game???"
Been testing Bahra's build, wrote a long post and the server coughed and I lost it. Serves me right for not writing it in Notepad++ first.
I crushed Czech Pile against a solid player 4 games in a row. The build was really strong and it is one of those places where SotL really shines, since targeting Leovold on their turn gets them exactly nothing. We curve out similarly to them and then tax them.
I got crushed by Grixis Delver, going 2-5 and only winning with a resolved turn 1 Vial. their deck is much more streamlined and mana efficient, plus their Wastelands are much worse for us if they resolve DRS. The 5 losses were what I can best describe as "Deathrite Shamans Gone Wild: Spring Break in Cancun" edition. Not sure how Bahra has been doing versus that deck, would love to hear his assessment, but wow and ouch I took a beating. Please note, the opposing player is good, but is not a Legacy player and doesn't have much experience with Grixis Delver. He laughed at the end and said, "It felt like my choices, aside from knowing when to Brainstorm, fetch and Ponder, were pretty much on auto-pilot because I had so many powerful plays." He used my Grixis deck, which is a very standard current build and all games were in Game 1 mode, no sideboard. Obviously, 2 Pontiff and Sparkmage would shift the game quite a bit Games 2 and 3, but I don't feel good about Game 1 vs. the Grixis menace at all and if we can't reasonably fight that deck, well...
I have not played any combo decks yet.
However, now my inner deck builder is quite engaged and I am going to try some things locally with people and see where it goes.
Comments on the RW No-SfM build:
1. Thalia Heretic Cathar is not great in those matches, but combined with Daredevil or TGoT is our only defense against Gurmag. Seems great against creature combo (Show and Tell as much as against Elves), if you have it in hand.
2. Too many Serra Avenger. WW was still an issue and the lack of disruption was annoying. It was in my opening hand every damn game and that was not great.
3. SotL once again made me sad against Grixis Delver, but felt awesome against Pile. Also a great anti-Elves card.
4. Missed Cavern of Souls, but I always do.
5. No removal and no Revoker and no RiP felt super bad against Delver, hence the DRS Gone Wild comment.
6. Maybe the build needs either a couple removal spells or a couple Sanctum Prelate calling 1. I would happily trade the THC for the Prelate, even if it is not a good offensive card, especially w/o equipment.
7. Missed SfM and equipment against Grixis because otherwise they were doing more powerful things I could not get back from. Did not miss it at all against Pile and probably wouldn't miss it against any combo deck except Elves.
8. Wingmare was great if I could get it out and keep it alive. Stack em high, tax em high.
9. Daredevil really conflicts with TGoT/Wingmare/SotL. Too often it was a 2/1 first strike. When it is great, it is great and it is often your only access to removal, so I don't think you can not run it.
10. Never saw Hallowed Spiritkeeper, but I would have been happy to. When you have 5-6 creatures in your graveyard, it makes people not want to attack (without a flyer/TNN) or kill it. I like this as tech for sure.
I don't know if I miss the SfM package so much as I wanted more ways to interact with Delver in the main. An already difficult match-up felt almost Elves bad. That may be my fault and as always, DnT rewards tight play and good decision trees and punishes bad ones severely, but it felt distinctly worse. I recently was on a team that made Top 8 at a 26 team Trio tourney and I was the DnT player and I only lost to another DnT player. I beat Pile 1x and Delver 2x and it felt totally different with this build (better for the former and much worse for the latter.)
If I kept this basic build, I would probably start with the following drops at the very least:
-2 SotL
-2 THC
-2 Serra Avenger
Cards I sort of thought might work okay as alternates:
Eldrazi Displacer, because it gives us something to do with extra mana, is colorless (very not irrelevant), and the ability is good for defense or offense at the right moment, with the bonus upsides of 2W, not 1WW, and 3/3, not X/1.
Swords to Plowshares OR Sanctum Prelate.
Rest in Peace or Relic of Progenitus in the main. Yes, not great in some matches, but it would help against many of the popular decks. Probably better non-creatures than removal for this build.
Mirran Crusader. Sure, it is not nearly as good without equipment, but pro-B/G is still great and so is double strike.
Cards I thought about and immediately decided against:
Jotun Grunt. Hey, it was a card, once. Long ago. 1W, 4/4 is great, but that upkeep cost is pretty harsh. Needs Flickerwisp if you want it for more than a couple turns.
Stonecloaker. 3/2 flying flash, graveyard hate is good, right? Oh yeah, have to return a creature to your hand when it enters the battlefield. Oops.
Chalice of the Void. The whole point was to cut down on artifacts and then you run into issues if turn 1 wasn't Mom or Aether Vial and definitely not as good as in decks that can cast it turn 1. Better in a stompy deck.
So that's my thoughts, FWIW from someone no one near as good as Bahra against two popular decks and only 2. Take with large grain of salt, assume Bahra's criticisms are probably right
On Bahra’s left field build: some old Magic cliches come to mind.
“Good decks play good cards.”
“The danger of cool things”
My tenure as the force behind this deck is over while Bahra is certainly an accomplished innovator. You have to respect that. Not to mention that Magic is a micrchosm for the corporate world when it comes to innovate or die. But Swords to Plowshares is and has been the best removal spell in the game since 1993. Don’t leave yourself with no spot removal when you have access to this card. Side it out as often as you like but don’t show up without it. Legacy has too many important targets for it.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
Just got into Seattle this morning. Anyone else here to do battle this weekend? I brought a whole mess of rw and ww stuff and will probably play some grinders today with various builds and get a sense of what the pnw meta is!
Thanks for the comments and the willingness to try my build redtwister.
I'll try Swords to Plowshares I think, I just hate to play a card that I board out so often. But I think I'll try the build with 4 Swords to Plowshares first and then see if I might want to go down on numbers or whatever.
I think that's a happy medium between what you are doing and traditional D&T. Seems like a great thing to test. You could cut four cards at random for them...like, say, Spirit of the Labyrinth.
So I don’t think you can cut all the sotl
I’m going to play this 60
3 plains
3 plateau
1 scrubland
5 fetchland
11 regular others
4 mom
4 thalia
4 vial
4 plows
3 devil
2 sotl
3 avenger
4 flicker
2 recruiter
1 magus
3 wingmare
1 prelate
2 big Thalia
So I was churning through the analysis of splashing for something like Pontiff on TU. I identified what looks like some omissions, and I think there is a very important point that is not addressed: the odds of seeing the card in the first place and the effect of Recruiter on playability.
Specifically, let's say that 72.5% chance of having the ability to get Pontiff into play on turn 4 is accurate (4 Caverns and 4 Vials). That still requires drawing Pontiff. If you have two copies in 60 cards, your odds of seeing one by turn four are, roughly, one in three, so the odds of being affected by color screw are about one-third of the residual 27.5% chance, or 9%. In effect, this will matter one in every six games you play Pontiff.
But in all likelihood, Pontiff is a swingy SB card. This means it will be played on fewer games, and only the ones where it has immense upside. We can further improve the odds by only playing one copy and adding a Recruiter instead, so we cut the chance of a dead card in half. Now, only 4-5% of games will you have a dead card due to color screw.
The question is what is more valuable: the reliability of ability to cast and instant speed provided by Holy Light, or the mixture of uncounterability, tutorability, and being able to attack provided by Pontiff?
I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm also not sure that you absolutely have to shred the mana base to fit in Pontiff, either.
Edit: these are rough estimates. I'm not in a spot where I can calculate exactly.
It’s a meta call with pontiff, of course. But don’t forget that you have got fetchlands to help you decide on the fly if you want access to black mana and recruiters get the pontiff. That makes a world of difference.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
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