True Believer worked well enough for me. It is one of those cards that you prefer not to draw later in the game, but it can randomly nerf entire decks. I was always very happy to have it in the sb. The thing is, it would be better in the deck now that it has some search.
Originally Posted by Pinder
Well, I am quite happy with the new build. Splashing blue makes a lot of things work better so far. I don't know about Daze, though. I mean, it has been decent (certainly better than Mana Tithe), but I wish that Rishidan Port were back in the deck to go with it.
I've been following this thread a while, but not yet started to play the deck. But I will, since my Angel Stompy fails me in my meta...
Just one question...
Your Vials, how many counters should you have on them? Different on first and second? How many on first, and how many on second?
Will assume that I don't get a third in play...
I just leave my vial at 3 for the Mangara lock. Either that, or two. Don't really have much stuff that cost 1 except Isamaru.
Just asking: Could Venser find a way into the blue splash builds?
Pros: Can remand/bounce expensive spells (which goes very well with mana denial), saves own, important permanents from removal, Flash, legendary
Cons: His casting cost - 4 mana and in it.
His casting costs really ruins him, but probably he could be worth 1-2 slots for testing?
Hmm, Venser would be interesting in this deck with a blue splash... especially since he's a legend.
Just a FYI. I took the original build (Mono-W) to a local small Legacy tournament (16 people) and got 1st place. I can write a write-up about it, but not at the moment. I have a couple projects to do at work.
Here are the decks that were there:
Legacy Rock
Belcher
Mono-R Goblins
MUC
Mono-Blue Counter-Top
B/R Dragonstorm
Psychatog
W/U Control w/ Beaters
W/U Rebels
W/B Angel of Despair / Armageddon
Mono-B Shadow Aggro
Mono-B (Not sure, it got knocked out early)
3-Color Enchantress
The other two decks I don't remember. They weren't very good though.
Perhaps I have missed it, but I haven't seen any sideboard strategies... What goes in and out versus the most common decks, I.E. DTB's and established decks?
I'll be playing in a local tournament soon, and I know that the following decks will be there: RGSA, Enchantress, 9-land Stompy, WWW, Suicide Black, Trinity Green, UG Madness, RG Beatdown, Fungus, CRET Belcher, Affinity, UGwr ***** and Ichorid Combo. Sideboarding help for these decks will be most appreciated.
There will also be a Thrull-aggro deck splashed white for moat... Win condition apparently is giving all thrulls flying. It is the construction of one of the best players I've met, and will probably be amazing... but I don't have the decklist yet.
I think some of the sideboarding is kind of obvious.
It is kind of easy to see that Glow Riders and Believers go in and slower creatures go out versus Combo.
Aura of Silence do kind of wreck enchantress and slow down Affinity. If you get it out fast, it can also slow down combo.
Orim's chant can also be good versus combo (and maybe control).
Death and Taxes should have a good matchup to many of the aggro matches, at least when I tried it.
Believer stops Hymn to Tourach, Thoughtseize, Duress, Tendrils of Agony, Diabolic Edict, and burn to the face. With so much black being splashed and played because of threshold, Believer seems to come in handy. I try to keep 2 MD just for the hell of it. But i must agree, its hard to fit it into this deck due to so many good 2cc choices.
What is everybody's opinion on Whipcorder? I love that card! I prefer it over SotPC.
Oh yea, I forgot Believer stops all those.
Whipcorder and Samurai of the Pale Curtain have different functions. You can't really attack with Whipcorder if you plan on using its ability, but Samurai's ability will work as long as it is in play.
I would say that it would depend on your metagame though...
How important is everyone finding wasteland and port in their builds? I've been running 2 ports lately (that's it) and I don't seem to be missing them. I like tapping down an opponents remaining land after a cataclysm, but otherwise it just doesn't seem a stellar play. Anyone else? Are they imperative? Or something easily cut?
I sort of agree with you. I've found more than 2 ports really lacking vs most decks matchups. It really hurts when someone is playing multi-color and happen to be mana-hosed in one color.
However, I do just want to throw it out there that whenever I'm playing vs a Blue/Blue splash deck, nothing hurts worse than tapping their Island to prevent them from counterspelling you. Those have been the only times I'm glad I have 4 Rishadan Ports.
My manabase is 10 Plains, 4 Karakas, 3 Flagstones, 4 Wasteland, and that works fine for me. I just don't want to be colorscrewed after I play Cataclysm.
I, for one, really like Port better. When you Cataclysm, you can fetch a Plains with the Flagstones, and keep Port as your one land (and perhaps play another). That way, you can tap down their remaining land. Wasteland rarely worked that way for me since I was apt to use it immediately long before then. Rishidan Port is better with sweepers.
OK, so I attended a tournament this past sunday at Tara Angel's Magic in Tallahassee, FL. I played D+T with the following list:
4-mangara
4-stonecloaker
4-serra avenger
4-glowrider
3-isamaru
3-whipcorder
3-jitte
3-trinisphere
4-aether vial
4-STP
4-karakas
4-rishadan port
4-wasteland
4-flagstones of trokair
8-plains
10 Players:
1 Death and Taxes (Me)
1 Red Death
1 Enchantress
1 Rifter
1 UGw Thresh w/ counter-top
1 CRET Belcher
1 Mono Black Control w/ Pox
3 Miscelaneous (can't remember)
SB:
4-jotun grunt
4-true beleiver
4-disenchant
3-hokori, dust drinker
Match 1: Enchantress
G1:
He starts drawing cards on turn three and casts exploration on turn 4. I never catch up, he wins.
G2:
I play. Open plains + vial, then port next turn, and then third turn trinisphere. I get him in a good mana lock and kill him with fliers.
G3:
I start to realize how bad of a matchup this is. Once he starts drawing cards, it is nearly impossible to catch up.
Match 2: (1-2-0) UGw Thresh w/ counter-top
G1:
I get a mangara and 2 stonecloakers. I remove 2 Tarmogoyfs, drop a trinisphere, and end up killing him with the pair of stonecloakers.
G2:
I see 3 lands in 17 draws! Luckily i had 2 aether vials so i was able to hang on... for a little while - he stifled one of my wastelands and another one went through. my third land was a port. We smack each other around for a little while, but i never see enough land to do anything and he kills me.
G3:
Time is called. I had the perfect hand of wasteland,port,karakas,mangara,vial,serra avenger, and trinisphere. I wish i could have finished that one....
Match 3: (2-3-1) Mono Black Control w/Pox
G1:
He hymns me twice, but I draw into the mangara combo and get him with trinisphere/no land lock. He concedes.
G2:
I drop a true believer and get the mangara combo going again. I kill him with an active jitte on an Avenger.
Match4 4: (4-3-1) Red Death
G1:
I get mangara combo and remove all of his creatures. Then I kill him with fliers.
G2:
He draws no burn and my creatures kill him.
I finish 6-3-1 and don't make top 4 (4th place had same record). Belcher wins tourny.
Well done regardless of the non-top 4 finish.
I like seeing the builds without Cataclysm which incorporate glowrider and more mana lock-down effects. I'm curious, are you running Trinisphere because you think it's superior to Thorn of Amethyst, or just because Thorn isn't legal yet / you don't have a playset?
Also, how has whipcorder been treating you? Have you tried out mana tithe? Same spot on the curve but drastically different cards (assuming you morph... which may not be important at all). I imagine mana tithe might be even more effective with how many 'taxing' effects you're already running. I play a cataclysm build, but I really like hearing about this one. Not really sure which is better.
Again, nice job.
It would seem like that either version focus on trying to stop your opponent from playing anything. Cataclysm just helps achieve a Mangara lock much faster.
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