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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #1001
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    The D+T mirror is a pretty big concern on Magic Online. If it is not because of this in particular, I would just call it general nubery.
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  2. #1002
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by menace13 View Post
    Stilllmoon is also good vs any deck with StP and no bolts, outside of a sac,minus or red effects , he isnt going anywhere. He can block Iona,Sphinx of the Steel,RWM,Stalker,Pridemage and KotR. I see it as a awesome meta main deck inclusion when you expect to see 4-5 other DnT decks in a 20 man field. I have seen Stillmoon used a lot during std season where BW tokens was a deck to beat, TUS actually ran it into like a dozen finishes over the course of 2 weeks and claimed it was almost all on the back of Stillmoon on mirrors.
    I dislike Stillmoon in the deck because it's main role is blocking or squeezing damage in. I win the mirror with more fliers and equipment. At a cmc of 3, this critter is a big mana sink. It's true stillmoon deals with those mentioned creatures but generally I am not concerned with any of those except Kotr.

    Yes, stillmoon was a huge pain when it was standard legal. From my testing, equipment is more important in the mirror and equipment deals with Stillmoon Cavalier.

  3. #1003
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Salogy View Post
    I dislike Stillmoon in the deck because it's main role is blocking or squeezing damage in. I win the mirror with more fliers and equipment. At a cmc of 3, this critter is a big mana sink. It's true stillmoon deals with those mentioned creatures but generally I am not concerned with any of those except Kotr.

    Yes, stillmoon was a huge pain when it was standard legal. From my testing, equipment is more important in the mirror and equipment deals with Stillmoon Cavalier.
    Stillmoon flys too and 1st strikes, getting jitt counters against that thing is nigh impossible for DnT. The only thing that gets past him is someone equipped with SOLS or SOFI giving it +2/+2 pushing it out of 2/1 3/1 range in the mirror, which is probably a long way to game over unless you've equips on Stillmoon that trumps his dude and equip.
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  4. #1004

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I recently played a few games against control that utilized Powder Keg recursion. It made several things harder, for one, repeatedly exploding my Vials made it harder to play through the control. What methods should I use to hinder it?

    Siding in Relic of Progenitus doesn't seem like a good idea, and Oblivion Ring is likely to be countered immediately. The same could also be asked of Pernicious Deed.

  5. #1005
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinizer View Post
    I recently played a few games against control that utilized Powder Keg recursion. It made several things harder, for one, repeatedly exploding my Vials made it harder to play through the control. What methods should I use to hinder it?

    Siding in Relic of Progenitus doesn't seem like a good idea, and Oblivion Ring is likely to be countered immediately. The same could also be asked of Pernicious Deed.
    You should pick a card based on how your opponent is recurring the Powder Keg. I want to say you should side in Pithing Needles but that does not always work. Needle has been very useful vs deeds but Kegs are faster.

    Aura of Silence has a cmc of 3 and works well in the first few turns to tax artifacts.

    I remember using Stonecloaker a year ago to stop recurring EEs. Stonecloaker is not very good right now but does the job in a flash.

  6. #1006
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    i'm as well using stonecloaker again, he is not the top card for the deck but he is extremely good against decks which recurr anything, i beat aggroloam for example with stonecloaker alone by simply removing all loams and cycle lands, and making goyf shrink little by little helps a lot too

  7. #1007
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Well 3 questions:

    1> What colors is this deck exactly, that would help answer the other two questions I will have?

    2> What exactly is he using to recur the Kegs?

    3> Have you tried using Wheel of Sun and Moon or some other method of locking out his yard that is not Crypt/relic?

  8. #1008

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    1:It was mono-blue control with a black and a white splash for cards I didn't see, possible Extirpate from the SB.

    2:Academy Ruins. Wasteland would have helped but I never drew one in time.

    3: I don't have the tutor-toolbox SB, so no Wheel of the sun and moon. Resolving a jötun grunt didn't work either because my vials were exploded and both ate counters.

    I believe this was a case of me not knowing the matchup at all and sideboarding incorrectly.

  9. #1009
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinizer View Post
    I don't have the tutor-toolbox SB
    Is this on account of you not having the cards to play the toolbox or you like the oldschool SB plan better? I've had much more luck with an Etutor plan than with anything else.
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  10. #1010

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I only have one enlightened tutor, and I haven't gotten around to getting 2 more. I also would rather get Jittes, Swords, Mystics and Wastelands as well. I've been borrowing them so far.

  11. #1011
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    This is what I have been playing online and doing well with over the past few weeks:

    // Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

    // Lands
    11 [IA] Plains (2)
    4 [LG] Karakas
    3 [TE] Wasteland
    4 [MM] Rishadan Port

    // Creatures
    3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
    4 [UL] Mother of Runes
    4 [CHP] Serra Avenger
    3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
    3 [TSP] Mangara of Corondor
    4 [EVE] Flickerwisp
    3 [LRW] Goldmeadow Harrier

    // Spells
    1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
    4 [DS] AEther Vial
    4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
    1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 4 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
    SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
    SB: 3 [PS] Orim's Chant
    SB: 2 [SHM] Runed Halo
    SB: 3 [WL] Tariff


    Of course the SB is subject to change, but with alot of people playing BANT and New Horizons in my area the Harriers are really manning up for me lately. He has been drawing counter quite often. Tariff seems promising, just being a mana cheaper than retribution of the meek makes life a little easier
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  12. #1012
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Drawing counters is always a good sign - especially for a 1-mana spell. Well done, sir.
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  13. #1013
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Right, I love seeing the looks on the other persons face see a Harrier get dropped. I LOVE the look even more when you can see them thinking on countering it, its just GREAT.

  14. #1014

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Hi everybody,

    just one question. Is this thread only for discussion of the mono white D&T? Since i know some lists splash green (mainly for Gaddock Teeg) i was curious if this is the right place to discuss.

  15. #1015

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by GooNaa View Post
    Hi everybody,

    just one question. Is this thread only for discussion of the mono white D&T? Since i know some lists splash green (mainly for Gaddock Teeg) i was curious if this is the right place to discuss.
    I suppose it's fine here, but honestly when you are splashing green annyway wouldn't you also start playing stuff like:
    goyf (I mean: you ARE playing green)
    qasali pridemage (hell yeah)
    knight of the reliquari (comes with the option of tutoring up your karakas, and other utility land/toolbox)

    The problem here is that you just end up with GW midrange agro, or GW survival in the end...

  16. #1016
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by overseer1234 View Post
    I suppose it's fine here, but honestly when you are splashing green annyway wouldn't you also start playing stuff like:
    goyf (I mean: you ARE playing green)
    qasali pridemage (hell yeah)
    knight of the reliquari (comes with the option of tutoring up your karakas, and other utility land/toolbox)

    The problem here is that you just end up with GW midrange agro, or GW survival in the end...
    Or Till Micheler's Living Taxes list up on deckcheck, has top 8'd 4 times past year 2 of those in 40+ man fields.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cavius The Great View Post
    Respect my shine bitch!

  17. #1017

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I suppose it's fine here, but honestly when you are splashing green annyway wouldn't you also start playing stuff like:
    goyf (I mean: you ARE playing green)
    qasali pridemage (hell yeah)
    knight of the reliquari (comes with the option of tutoring up your karakas, and other utility land/toolbox)

    The problem here is that you just end up with GW midrange agro, or GW survival in the end...
    Entirely true. Plus, I have never understood the value of adding Living Wish to this deck. Why this deck instead of, say Counterbalance Threshold? Now, I have read people like Finn mention that Qasali Pridemage and Gaddock Teeg would be great additions to the deck if they were only white. I think I would replace Oblivion Rings with Pridemages. Teeg might only be sb. I don't know about Tarmogoyf but you have to test it since it is Prince Tarmo we are talking about. The question you have to ask is "Is it worth it?"

    GooNaa, Im thinking that if you want to casually move this discussion to the benefits of splashing green (lo and behold, it is already begun) this is the place for it. But if anyone would like to post the merits of green as a tested and independent deck a thread in New and Dev is necessary.
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  18. #1018
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Im not so sure a white pridemage would be the best bet for the deck... Oring, although sometimes lacking, is a necessary evil in the deck. The times when tricks with vial/flickerwisp actually come up are going to put you ahead in the game, its the same with mangara/karakas, the combo doesnt always come up, it may not even be needed to win... ever, but those times when it saves your ass, makes it worth running..

    Im not sure about you guys, but I remove ALOT of creatures with oblivion ring, losing it to run a "pridemage" could be risky business, if we ever see a card like that for mono white. Aside from the exalted side, there are creature options to remove artifacts and enchantments
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  19. #1019

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Now after my first question a real post with content.

    I am lucky to have a weekly Legacy tournament in town, with quiet some good players but also some beginners and inexperienced players. The number of players always is between 20 and 40. Nearly all of them play competitive decks.
    After some tounaments where i played each time a different deck (ANT, Belcher, Faeries with all kind of splashes) with not much success i tried mono white D&T in the last 3 tournaments.

    First tounament went 5-0-1 finishing first
    2-0 Merfolk
    1-1-1 Zoo (went to time with advantages on my side)
    2-1 Belcher
    2-1 Canadian Thresh
    2-0 Dragon Stompy
    2-1 Dredge

    Second tournament 4-1-0 finishing third
    2-0 Merfolk
    2-0 UW tempo
    1-2 Canadian Thresh
    2-X unknown opponent
    2-0 Eva Green

    Third tournament 5-1-0 finishing second
    2-0 Zoo
    2-1 UR Dreadstill
    2-0 Zoo
    2-1 Merfolk
    0-2 UW Standstill
    2-0 Bant Survival (Iona)

    Decklist can be found through the tounament links (it is a german forum).

    During the tounaments most of my opponents did not know how to play against D&T and made several mistakes or bad plays. Mostly not playing around Wing Shards but also things like
    - playing Firespout without tapping a green mana (although possible)
    - opponent had an active jitte with two counters and did not used them in response to me activating SFM ability although he knew i had a jitte in hand
    - Bolting Mangara with not seeing that there is an active Karakas

    So i do not over value the total result of 14-2-1.

    Finally my experiences so far.
    - Benevolent Bodyguard (played them as Mothers 5 and 6 but they feel a bit underpowered)
    - Mother (definitive 4 of for the deck)
    - Serra (would not play less then 4)
    - Jotun (great creature stops attacks and gives you the time to get a creature equipped and swinging)
    - Flickerwisp (so many usages and the card that made me play the deck in the beginning - just like it)
    - Mangara (2 are enough for me - either felt like win more or was just a bad creature that died or had to chump block - you want to draw them only in the late game)
    - Rishadan Port (so far like it more than wasteland)
    - karakas (for me three is the optimal number so far, always seem to draw 2 if i play 4 of them)
    - Wing Shards (so far best Sideboard card - surprised so many opponents - i guess that will change in the next tournaments)

    Cards i want to test in the next tournaments
    - Brave the elements (could be 5th Mother and i just really liked them in Standard)
    - Elspeth (might be too expensive but an answer to humility)
    - Gaddock Teeg (think he is much stronger than canonist and he can be bounced with karakas with Mother-protection possible game over for some decks)

    thats it for now.

  20. #1020

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I am going to be playing in a Legacy tournament several weeks from now. I have no idea about the meta, but in the local tourneys I've been to, it's been rather diverse. I am going to be running a 2-1 MB SB split of Burrenton Forgetender or Goldmeadow Harrier, which one of these would be better?

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