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Thread: [DTB] Death and Taxes

  1. #10421

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Enesta View Post
    Match 5 game 1... u had a thalia and sfm in play and your opponent still attacked in with bob?? Does not seem like a move that a decent player will make.
    My turn 2 was thalia, his turn 2 was bob. My turn 3 was attack with Thalia, wasteland his land, and play stoneforge for fire and ice.
    So, on his 3rd turn, he attacked with bob, I could have traded with stoneforge, or not. I did. I dont think it was a good play, but I cant say anything for him, didnt know the contents of his hand or his game plan. Maybe he was expecting batterskull and thought it couldnt race agains it.
    It's my opinion from my perspective of the match.

  2. #10422

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Orzhov Advokist sounds pretty weird. One thing I'd like to know: How is it when combined with Walking Ballista? Supercharging it for creature control or reach sounds pretty good in theory. It should also be quite the clock since each counter can do double duty with attacking and then pinging for the win.
    Maybe there's a list where the two can me combined, and I think it would work. But only as a 1 or 2-off (ballista).
    The reason is that we are, in fact, a aether vial deck, and ballista is not that great without lots of sol-lands. In theory, as you said, is great, but I think it is too slow. Maybe a differente list with tue full 4 orzhov + ballista would be something to consider.

  3. #10423

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by schweinefettmann View Post
    That DOES sound weird. I don't think even i'd do that, and i'm a pretty horrible player.

    I also have been pretty impressed with the advokist, but ONLY if my opponent doesn't play TNN. at that point, it's a dead card in hand (since the only out i have against those are 2 pontiffs, and those sit on my board).

    I was just curious; is big thaalia out of favour right now? i was messing about testing all sorts of different lists, and i came across tsabo's web. That plus big thaalia means that it blanks all opposing fetches, right? and opposing ports, karakas, and any other land that also happens to have some non-mana producing effect. is there a reason it's not being played right now? at worst it cycles, which isn't the worst thing in the world.

    Have to caveat that i'm trying to make a very land-disruption heavy DnT build that is probably not the right way to go. But magic is a 0-sum game, and i want to have all the fun.
    As I said the first time I spoke about the card, you must have ways to kill TNN on game 1. In fact, your deck must have more removal because of the orzhov so that you dont fall behind. Thats why you see 2 council judgment on the MD. (4 plowshares + 2 concil + palace jailer = 7 removal MD, plus 4 flickerwisp to reset counters)

    About big thalia: Too slow. Bad topdeck. Lot of people tested, it has never been great. If the cards is playable, its in a sol-land/chrome mox/lotus petal build. I think it sees play in the soldier stompy deck.
    Last edited by kioken; 03-29-2019 at 08:11 AM.

  4. #10424

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by kioken View Post
    As I said the first time I spoke about the card, you must have ways to kill TNN on turn 1. In fact, your deck must have more removal because of the orzhov so that you dont fall behind. Thats why you see 2 council judgment on the MD. (4 plowshares + 2 concil + palace jailer = 7 removal MD, plus 4 flickerwisp to reset counters)

    About big thalia: Too slow. Bad topdeck. Lot of people tested, it has never been great. If the cards is playable, its in a sol-land/chrome mox/lotus petal build. I think it sees play in the soldier stompy deck.
    Would you consider putting serra avenger to your deck for evasion?

  5. #10425

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Enesta View Post
    Would you consider putting serra avenger to your deck for evasion?
    Not anymore. Serra Avenger is a good card, but I think this build with 4x Orzhov for beaters is better. The evasion of Serra Avenger is great, and it has a decente body, playing both ofense and defense. But the casting cost is complicated, without vial it only enters on turn 4, and is WW, which I dont like much. I want consistency, and avenger doesnt provide that.
    But I would never rule it out, its a card that can, at any moment, return to the deck.

  6. #10426
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I saw in MTG Top 8 that someone else took a D&T list with 4 orzhov advokist to a top 2 finish:

    https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=21121&d=340624&f=LE

    Or was it you Kioken?
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  7. #10427

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    It was me. After I started using 4x Orzhov (I tested with 1 and 2 a few times) I made: second, first and first of the three consecutive tournaments I faced. (currently 15-1-1 total I guess) It was the same time I take out the batterskull from the deck and started using 2 council MD.

    Is someone else using the card? How are the tests going? I have a friend that test 1 or 2-off on MOL and said the card was very good when he drew it.

  8. #10428
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by kioken View Post
    It was me. After I started using 4x Orzhov (I tested with 1 and 2 a few times) I made: second, first and first of the three consecutive tournaments I faced. (currently 15-1-1 total I guess) It was the same time I take out the batterskull from the deck and started using 2 council MD.

    Is someone else using the card? How are the tests going? I have a friend that test 1 or 2-off on MOL and said the card was very good when he drew it.
    I'm unfortunately out of a legacy scene since I moved to Nice :(
    But i'm going to Paris next week and will probably attend a legacy tournament.
    I'll have to prepare a deck and we will see if i have the guts to bring out Orzhov advokist :)
    Death and taxes!!

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  9. #10429

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes



    Can't be tutored by white recruiter and the WW cost is a little tough, but 2 mana for a 2/3 flier that we can save with Karakas, stops opposing ports/wastelands, and most of the shenanigans from lands. Not sure it makes the cut, but it's an interesting creature at a good rate that has a lot of potentially relevant text.
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  10. #10430
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Tomik is an interesting card, to be sure. My suspicion is that it does not currently have a place in this deck. A 2/3 for 2 that flies with no drawbacks is about as good as anyone could ask for in terms of efficiency. But unless the Loam engine or something similar earns a steady spot on the DtB list, I certainly will not be packing this fellow. Even the cantrip shell decks that pack Wastelands rarely actually try to take out our lands with those Wastelands.

    Damn, why could it not have said "Lands can't enter the battlefield from graveyards or libraries."? THAT would be a card.
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  11. #10431
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Tomik prevents Vampire Hexmage and Thespian's Stage from targeting Dark Depths, right?
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  12. #10432
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    Tomik prevents Vampire Hexmage and Thespian's Stage from targeting Dark Depths, right?
    Yes. They both say "target". Interestingly, I wanted to make a nasty stupid deck with Tomik, Port, and Kudzu, but it does not target. Poopie.
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  13. #10433
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Interestingly, I wanted to make a nasty stupid deck with Tomik, Port, and Kudzu, but it does not target. Poopie.
    Ha ha, I had exactly the same idea, but we both failed due to Kudzu's wording.
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  14. #10434

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Tomik is a very intriguing card. Compared to Serra Avenger:

    Plus:
    -Human if you play Cavern.
    -Can be saved by Karakas.
    -Hoses a few combo decks, like lands, loam, enchantress and depths.
    -Can save a land from wasteland/port or a manland from removal.
    -Prevents pumping of Inkmoth Nexus.

    Cons:
    -Less power.
    -No vigilance.
    -Can be bounced by opposing Karakas.

    To be honest, it seems overall better than avenger to me.

  15. #10435
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Tomik seems very good. WW for a 2/3 flyer is pretty solid as is, being legendary is actually beneficial for you with Karakas, and it's ability is very good against several common matchups. At the very least, I'd say it deserves at least one copy in the 75.
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  16. #10436
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bosque View Post


    Can't be tutored by white recruiter and the WW cost is a little tough, but 2 mana for a 2/3 flier that we can save with Karakas, stops opposing ports/wastelands, and most of the shenanigans from lands. Not sure it makes the cut, but it's an interesting creature at a good rate that has a lot of potentially relevant text.
    I think it's interesting... but do we really need help against Loam Decks and Depths? Our maindeck is pretty well equipped to beat those decks, It doesn't do a lot in the mirror because of opposing Karakas. I'm definitely going to pick up a set but probably only a meta toolbox kind of guy.

  17. #10437

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Has anyone tried playing Eldrazi displacer lately? I was playing it in modern and the card feels pretty insane especially with the addition of ancient tomb. I know the lack of 2 toughness is a down side but flickering Jailer seems pretty nuts

  18. #10438
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    We are going to have to talk about Dovin. It looks to me like a serious candidate for maindeckedness.

    In fact, given how hard it will be to kill in DnT with all of our creatures, I might even consider three of them. We can even Flicker him to get him to full loyalty after a few activations.
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  19. #10439
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    We are going to have to talk about Dovin. It looks to me like a serious candidate for maindeckedness.

    In fact, given how hard it will be to kill in DnT with all of our creatures, I might even consider three of them. We can even Flicker him to get him to full loyalty after a few activations.
    The challenge is that he would cost 4 with a Thalia in play, and cannot be cast off of AEther Vial. Is that really any better than Vryn Wingmare?
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    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  20. #10440

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectTempo View Post
    Has anyone tried playing Eldrazi displacer lately? I was playing it in modern and the card feels pretty insane especially with the addition of ancient tomb. I know the lack of 2 toughness is a down side but flickering Jailer seems pretty nuts
    Dnt itself is a very mana hungry deck. Cant see a situation whereby u have so much free mana

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