[Deck] Death and Taxes

[DalkonCledwin]

Hmm, well if zoo becomes big, (Which is SHOULD,) Why not run instead of wastelands we run Ghost Quarter, same trick for PoP but it also leaves us at 0 Land loss and 1 mana open for Swords if we need it. Hell, we could even tap the flagstones and respond with Swords. Seems like a better answer than clearing our board just to avoid most of the damage. Heck this may aslo open up the deck to play Path instead of Swords to mitigate the life difference. I say that is worth testing as well.

I actually think that may be an interesting idea and worth testing in the new meta. I am not sure if that idea is all that good of an idea if Land heavy decks become hugely popular in the new meta. But I figure most of those have ways to recur those lands anyways so it may not hurt to be able to force them to search for basics instead of using the non-basics that they normally want to be utilizing. And the fact that it serves a dual purpose of protecting our own lands is an intriguing bit of information as well, I think this is definitely worth consideration.

[Vacrix]

While doing a search, I randomly found this. Its much like Meekstone... only it doesn't affect Grunt. Its probably unnecessary, especially now that Reanimator is dead, but I figured I'd mention it anyway.
Crackdown


Also, if you want to run Ghost Quarter, you should consider Aven Mindcensor. Turning your Ghost Quarter's into Strip Mines is tech.

[menace13]

My friend Blaze ran Living Wish build into the money few days ago( tuned for Naya Sligh and Landstill meta).
As of April(launch of Legacy) to date, he has 21 daily finishes with DnT and 1 with Living. Teeg main and Magus for Landstill, while Finks and BFT help out in Sligh.

2 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
3 Karakas
5 Plains
3 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
22 lands


4 Benevolent Bodyguard
3 Flickerwisp
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 JA?tun Grunt
2 Mangara of Corondor
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Serra Avenger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
22 creatures

4 A?ther Vial
2 Living Wish
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Runed Halo
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
16 other spells

Sideboard

2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Silence
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tivadar of Thorn
2 Tormod's Crypt
15 sideboard cards

[DalkonCledwin]

I am kind of curious how Blazelix is casting Magus of the Moon reliably. Is he relying solely on the Æther Vials to get it into play, or does he have some alternative plan about that?

Also I am kind of surprised that no one on MTGO has been utilizing an Enlightened Tutor Package. I mean it isn't like Enlightened Tutor isn't available on MTGO. So why does no one play it?

[menace13]

I am kind of curious how Blazelix is casting Magus of the Moon reliably. Is he relying solely on the Æther Vials to get it into play, or does he have some alternative plan about that?

Also I am kind of surprised that no one on MTGO has been utilizing an Enlightened Tutor Package. I mean it isn't like Enlightened Tutor isn't available on MTGO. So why does no one play it?

Yeah, no other way aside Vial for Magus, but it does some trix g1 off of Wish(still needs Vial). No clue why more players aren't on the E. Tutor package, Jarhorsk( 2nd most DnT placings) does use it. It is readily available. I asked his opinion and he found it to be slower than more Canonist and Stoneforgers. We just got Mother of Runes online!

[DalkonCledwin]

yeah I initially found it to be slower as well. However I have come around to the opinion that because the Enlightened Tutors are in fact instants and they can be used at end of turn like any other instant, assuming one left mana open to do so, then that means they effectively double the amount of hate cards you can safely run at any given time, thus taking your effective sideboard slots up from 15 to 30 cards in effect (or at least that is how I read it).

[menace13]

yeah I initially found it to be slower as well. However I have come around to the opinion that because the Enlightened Tutors are in fact instants and they can be used at end of turn like any other instant, assuming one left mana open to do so, then that means they effectively double the amount of hate cards you can safely run at any given time, thus taking your effective sideboard slots up from 15 to 30 cards in effect (or at least that is how I read it).

Agreed, i personaly like the E.Tutor package and it makes sb hate accessible turn 2-3 w/o mulling povided it is in opener. With the ban in place come the 1st, he should go back to testing tutor toolbox.

[Penguinizer]

Aside from the E-Tutor package, what should a non-package SB be like? As I mentioned before, the availability of E-tutor isn't spectacular around here.I will try to get some, but in the meantime I'm stuck with a vanilla SB.

The tournaments I've been to have usually been rather blue heavy with some exceptions like Lands, Aggroloam and the occasional Goblins and Zoo. Goblins and Zoo as such aren't too bad. It however depends on me getting an active sword out quickly. The high amount of removal is useful though. As a note, there is nearly zero combo in my meta. Only two people at most in 30-man tourneys. Canonist is still ok in other matchups, so I would like to keep it.

My biggest problem however is counterbalance. I've been thinking of some possible cards that might work. I can't always rely on being able to get Mangara active or resolving an O-Ring. I thought that Elvish Hexhunter/Kami of the Ancient Law might work. They both are low enough in CMC that they should hit the field before they get both a top and CB with open mana. At worst, they'll end up eating removal that could have hit something much more important. They also can hold a Jitte or a sword unlike Seal of Cleansing.

Wing Shards rarely gets any storm counters unless I have the mana to StP as well. It's still good against Progenitus though, and having a lot of removal is handy against aggro. Relic of Progenitus/Tormod's Crypt is the requisite gravehate. I also have 1 Jötun Grunt and 1 Goldmeadow Harrier in my SB because they're not good enough in some matchups, and having 2-1 splits clears up space in the MB.

Here's the SB I used at a tournament last weekend:

3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Silence
3 Wing Shards
1 Jötun Grunt
1 Burrenton Forge-tender (will change out for Harrier. These did not work out at all.)
1 Emrakul (Couldn't manage to borrow anything relevant into this slot.)

As mentioned before, in the absence of combo, I never sided in Silence or Canonist. I ended up siding Wing Shards in most matchups though.

[Vacrix]

Aside from the E-Tutor package, what should a non-package SB be like? As I mentioned before, the availability of E-tutor isn't spectacular around here.I will try to get some, but in the meantime I'm stuck with a vanilla SB.

The tournaments I've been to have usually been rather blue heavy with some exceptions like Lands, Aggroloam and the occasional Goblins and Zoo. Goblins and Zoo as such aren't too bad. It however depends on me getting an active sword out quickly. The high amount of removal is useful though. As a note, there is nearly zero combo in my meta. Only two people at most in 30-man tourneys. Canonist is still ok in other matchups, so I would like to keep it.

My biggest problem however is counterbalance. I've been thinking of some possible cards that might work. I can't always rely on being able to get Mangara active or resolving an O-Ring. I thought that Elvish Hexhunter/Kami of the Ancient Law might work. They both are low enough in CMC that they should hit the field before they get both a top and CB with open mana. At worst, they'll end up eating removal that could have hit something much more important. They also can hold a Jitte or a sword unlike Seal of Cleansing.

Wing Shards rarely gets any storm counters unless I have the mana to StP as well. It's still good against Progenitus though, and having a lot of removal is handy against aggro. Relic of Progenitus/Tormod's Crypt is the requisite gravehate. I also have 1 Jötun Grunt and 1 Goldmeadow Harrier in my SB because they're not good enough in some matchups, and having 2-1 splits clears up space in the MB.

Here's the SB I used at a tournament last weekend:

3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Silence
3 Wing Shards
1 Jötun Grunt
1 Burrenton Forge-tender (will change out for Harrier. These did not work out at all.)
1 Emrakul (Couldn't manage to borrow anything relevant into this slot.)

As mentioned before, in the absence of combo, I never sided in Silence or Canonist. I ended up siding Wing Shards in most matchups though.

Wouldn't increasing the number of Vial's postboard be a good way to beat CB? CB is significantly underpowered if they can't stop you from dropping creatures, especially when you can use SFM to resolve your equipment. Also, E-Tutor for Oblivion Ring would be a nice solution to CB as well.

[DalkonCledwin]

I am not sure how you are planning on casting the Emrakul (is it possible that is a joke include?). Anyways I have completely forgone the Wing Shards in favor of Meekstone and Cataclysm, both of which are capable of hindering various strategies that give this deck fits. In the soon to be combo-weakened environment I don't think we need BOTH Silence and Ethersworn and because Ethersworn is infinitely more versatile than Silence I suggest keeping the Ethersworn not the Silence. Relic of Progenitus is not my favorite option but that is a personal choice. I don't think Burrenton Forge-Tender in the board is an optimal choice as I would much rather have it in the main deck, but that is just me. Other than that the sideboard looks like a solid starting place for a packageless board.

[Vacrix]

I am not sure how you are planning on casting the Emrakul (is it possible that is a joke include?).

He can ramp his vial to 15!!!

No seriously, I think he ran it (obviously in a rush to fill that slot) assuming that Reanimator or 'drop fatty variants' would play SnT or Eureka, and then he would have something to put into play.

[Penguinizer]

The Emrakul is indeed a pseudo-joke. It's there because I couldn't get a 4th silence in time. Turns out it didn't really matter. I picked it because I know that there is at least 1-2 people playing Painter at the tournaments I go to. For Show and Tell, I'd much rather be dropping a Runed Halo or O-Ring if possible. I suppose a Stoneforge Mystic for the relevant prot sword wouldn't hurt.

[Joe_C]

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
11 [IA] Plains (2)
4 [LG] Karakas
3 [TE] Wasteland
4 [MM] Rishadan Port

// Creatures
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [UL] Mother of Runes
4 [CHP] Serra Avenger
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
3 [TSP] Mangara of Corondor
4 [EVE] Flickerwisp
3 [LRW] Goldmeadow Harrier

// Spells
1 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [LRW] Oblivion Ring

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1 [SHM] Runed Halo
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [LRW] Burrenton Forge-Tender
SB: 3 [WL] Tariff

Here is what I have been working on.... We must remind ourselves that dredge also greatly benefits from combo taking a big hit, so BFT plays an additional role in that matchup as well as being handy against zoo/goblins. Tariff is for those really early reanimator schenannigans that cant wait for 3 mana to hit the board (ie. retribution of the meek, wing shards). In my limited testing, this is working out pretty darn well.... I would be playing in tournaments, but alas my wife is pregnant and on bed rest so I am unable to venture out and play cards for some time :-(

[Penguinizer]

I found BFT underwhelming when I played against zoo. It didn't stop their removal when it was most needed and they didn't run red beaters. I'd prefer Goldmeadow Harrier in that slot. The reason for my 2-1 split on the BFT/Harrier and Grunt is to make room for MB Runed Halo. I'll have to test out Tariff or Kami of Ancient Law when the next tourney rolls around.

[DalkonCledwin]

I am actually in agreement that Burrenton Forge-Tender will be a huge contender in the coming months do to Dredge probably filling the slot that ANT used to fill as far as easy to pilot and consistent combo decks are concerned (the other possibility being Enchantress). To that end I think BFT is a viable option not for a sideboard card but for a main deck card. The sideboard should be dedicated to other more utilitarian choices in my opinion.

Not to mention the Burrenton Forge-Tender gives us protection against Goblins.

Another possibility that some people on MTGO had been playing until recently would be Benevolent Bodyguard. That is at least worth some consideration. It may not be as all encompassing as Burrenton Forge-Tender, but its protection is granted to whatever color you wish, thereby enabling for more versatility. Additionally it like the Forge-Tender requires you to sacrifice it to activate making it a viable option when compared to Dredge decks.

[Penguinizer]

Hmm, I might still end up playing BFT for that exact reason. I found it ok in Goblins, but Stoneforge Mystic is the real star of that matchup. Most games where I've gotten a Sword of Fire and Ice into play I've won. I'm still fairly confident in the 2-1 splits. I might also move to having 4 crypts/relics in the SB for those reasons as well. Kami of Ancient Law is sadly rather limited as it only hits enchantments, same is true for Elvish Hexhunter. The Kami does seem to be better in general though, as it does not require mana nor does it have to tap.

[Lord_Cyrus]

You sac it to remove their bridges... You can sac it whenever you wish, so just use it in response to a dread return to euthanize their zombie swarm. Fairly obvious.

[DalkonCledwin]

You sac it to remove their bridges... You can sac it whenever you wish, so just use it in response to a dread return to euthanize their zombie swarm. Fairly obvious.

it isn't necessarily exceedingly obvious, but yes, that is why you play Burrenton Forge-Tender in a deck that wants answers to Dredge. The idea is that this deck does not normally have main deck answers to Dredge during Game one, so by including Burrenton Forge-Tender in the deck's main plan you increase the odds that you will win game one by a significant margin for each one.

Some people however find that Burrenton Forge-Tender does not help against enough strategies to make her worth using. I however, disagree with this analysis due to the fact that a Burrenton Forge-Tender alongside of a Sword of Light and Shadow can act as a perma-fog against giant red threats such as Progenitus. Among other things.

[Penguinizer]

I have 2 MD grunts as well. I would run 3 if not for Runed Halo, which I still think is worth it. In the matches I played, it let me stall the game long enough so I managed to get the upper hand.

[DalkonCledwin]

I have 2 MD grunts as well. I would run 3 if not for Runed Halo, which I still think is worth it. In the matches I played, it let me stall the game long enough so I managed to get the upper hand.

I am not entirely sold on Runed Halo. Especially main decked. The card at best stalls out against a single card, which simply is not enough against things like Zoo or Goblins, and against decks like NO-Pro it simply prevents the attacks by Progenitus turning him into a giant wall that blocks all of your creatures save the ones with flying. I don't think the trade off is worth it. I would much rather be running Meekstone in its place, but certainly not main decked.