[Deck] Death and Taxes

[redtwister]

Bahra's creative burst has led me to revisit an idea put forward by some Japanese player in 2015 around the BMO events.

Here is the build I will be testing going into Baltimore Team Trios in May.

Lands 25
9 Plains
4 wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of souls

Spells 7
4 Aether Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares

Creatures 28
4 thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of runes
4 Vryn Wingmare
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Flickerwisp
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Recruiter of the Guard

sideboard (quite sketchy)
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Council's Judgment
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Containment Priest
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Settle the Wreckage

[Bosque]

Bahra's creative burst has led me to revisit an idea put forward by some Japanese player in 2015 around the BMO events.

Here is the build I will be testing going into Baltimore Team Trios in May.

If you're playing the Arbiter/Mindcensor package, I'd think some Path to Exile in the sideboard should be solid considering how commonly we run there even without the search hate.

[JacobRoberts]

Played D&T at GP Seattle. Won 2 byes at a LCT the day before, but went 2-3 in the main event. Win or lose, I don't think player skill played a factor in any of my matches, and all of them were won by the player who won the die roll. Kind of frustrating.

Looking around the room on Thursday and Friday, the 3 most common decks I saw were Grixis Delver, Lands, and D&T. It's pretty striking to me that despite D&T being so popular during LCTs, I was the only one who won byes with it. I get the feeling that there's no (common) matchups I really want to play with D&T. That I'm 50/50 at best vs the field. I feel like beating grixis delver on the draw is very difficult without a vial that sticks. An R Stompy opponent told me he felt like he was very favored post-board because of all the bombs he gets to bring in. Turbo Depths plays Rite of Consumption now, which is extremely difficult to interact with. Which matchups do I actually want to see?

The list I played is found here, I'm the only D&T there. Notably, I'm on 0 prelate. It's only good game 1 against a small handful of decks, and it loses a lot of relevance post-board against those decks. The possibility of it existing forces your opponents to play differently, which is a nice plus. Overall I believe abandoning Prelate is correct.

[ChrisCunningham]

Now, only 4-5% of games will you have a dead card due to color screw.

Hi -- I'm the one who did the analysis of mana with vials! You are right that the calculations tell you when you will have the capability to play the card, regardless of whether you draw it or not. You will only be able to play the Pontiff "on curve" with 4vial+4cavern 72% of the time. So about 28% of your Pontiffs will be unplayable.

To give you a parallel, if your deck already has 12 blue cards, you might think "I'll just throw in one Force of Will as the 13th blue card." Indeed if you do this, you only draw an uncastable Force in your opening hand 2.78% of the time. But that is 24% of your Force of Wills. This is very similar to the odds you are talking about -- 24% of your Force of Wills will be unplayable.

So playing Pontiff in your 4cavern, 4vial deck is as bad as (or even worse than) throwing a Force of Will into your deck as the 13th blue card. It won't actually punish you in very many games because you will rarely draw it, but you should try to resist that logic.

[Lord Darkview]

Hi -- I'm the one who did the analysis of mana with vials! You are right that the calculations tell you when you will have the capability to play the card, regardless of whether you draw it or not. You will only be able to play the Pontiff "on curve" with 4vial+4cavern 72% of the time. So about 28% of your Pontiffs will be unplayable.

To give you a parallel, if your deck already has 12 blue cards, you might think "I'll just throw in one Force of Will as the 13th blue card." Indeed if you do this, you only draw an uncastable Force in your opening hand 2.78% of the time. But that is 24% of your Force of Wills. This is very similar to the odds you are talking about -- 24% of your Force of Wills will be unplayable.

So playing Pontiff in your 4cavern, 4vial deck is as bad as (or even worse than) throwing a Force of Will into your deck as the 13th blue card. It won't actually punish you in very many games because you will rarely draw it, but you should try to resist that logic.

I saw your analysis, and appreciated it. I've done those myself on occasion, though typically I run more "back of the envelope estimates" like I did above. What I was saying is not, "Your analysis is wrong," because it isn't. It is, in fact, quite accurate. But it was missing the key context of the question.

Consider the following hypothetical, which is quite logical for our specific context: "I want an answer to TNN and Elves. I have two SB slots to devote to the question. Should it be 2x Holy Light, or 1x Recruiter and 1x Pontiff?"

You will see and generally be able to cast Holy Light in about 31% of the time.

In contrast, you will see Recruiter or Pontiff (assuming you already had the typical MD 2x Recruiter) about 53% of the time. Of those, 28% of the time a Pontiff will not be usable; meaning that we have a roughly 38% of finding and casting Pontiff. We also have a roughly 17% chance of naturally drawing Pontiff with a 28% chance of not being able to use it, which means a 5% chance of a dead draw.

So the question becomes which of the following scenarios is preferable?

1. 31% access to the desired effect as an Instant.
2. 38% access to the desired effect, uncounterably, with slightly better odds of Instant than Sorcery speed; but also with a 5% chance of a dead card.

Generally, I think (b) is better.



There are a few key differences between this formulation and the FoW question.

1. The FoW question is less precisely phrased. That means we are evaluating the risk-versus-reward of a dead FoW generally, rather versus a specific alternative. That is a much more nebulous question, and harder to apply a value judgment to.
2. The SB card generally has greater reward in the situation being examined versus its counterpart. IE: the value of a good FoW is highly uncertain. The value of a good Pontiff when you bring it in is always high.
3. The presence of Recruiter allows one to increase the odds of a useful Pontiff independently of its chance to be a dead draw. The consequence is that there is a higher chance to get Pontiff when it is useful versus its the nearest alternative. One might argue that blue's cantrips could offset this, but I do not have a mathematical treatment for it yet.

The upshot of all this is that, hopefully at some point in the near future, I will acquire two more Caverns. You know, when it's in my budget.



Edit: A very late addendum to this "context matters" idea, but an important one that I didn't feel comfortable leaving out.

I've given this some more thought. The biggest problem with the 4 Caverns plan is not a failure to resolve Pontiff, but a failure to resolve Swords to Plowshares, Flickerwisp, and many other things.

Effectively, 4 Caverns, Ports, and Wastelands generally leaves us only 11 slots for W-producing lands. That is not enough to snap off non-Human spells in a timely manner. This, more than any issue with the reliability of Pontiff himself, is why a fetch+dual lands mana base is actually preferable.

[AsmodeusDM]

Still at GP Seattle and now we have a winner.

There was a lot of D&T here this weekend I mean A LOT ...

The reality is that no d&t decks did well, perused the top 40 or tables in last Swiss round and hardly saw any players.

Uggg it’s sad and disappointing

Delver is just so consistent and powerful and ugggh

I just hate that delver feels like a bad match up

[Tylert]

The meta has shifted. It will shift back at some point in time as usual...

[Bahra]

The meta has shifted. It will shift back at some point in time as usual...

You sound oddly confident in that assessment.

Truth is that the meta will not shift away from Grixis Delver being a (the) top deck before we see a ban. Meta has been stale ever since the top ban, and it will stay exactly like this for quite a while I assume.

[Tylert]

You sound oddly confident in that assessment.

Truth is that the meta will not shift away from Grixis Delver being a (the) top deck before we see a ban. Meta has been stale ever since the top ban, and it will stay exactly like this for quite a while I assume.

I think I forgot to finish my sentence: " ... Or they will ban DRS" :)

[redtwister]

Ok, advices taken.

Lands 25
9 Plains
4 wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Karakas
1 Cavern of souls

Spells 7
4 Aether Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares

Creatures 28
4 thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of runes
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Vryn Wingmare
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Flickerwisp

sideboard (quite sketchy)
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Council's Judgment
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Containment Priest
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Settle the Wreckage

Prelate out, THC back in. Brimaz might be a bad choice, but I am testing it. I have liked Hallowed Spiritkeeper when I have seen _Bahra play it on stream, just seems like a really annoying threat/blocker and fetchable. Since this build has 25 lands, I have considered Eldrazi Displacer as it is a flexible card, a 3/3, and colorless.

Also realized that Recruiter + Arbiter is a nonbo. Hrm. Well, so is Daredevil + 8 thalia efects + SotL, so I am going to give it a shot.

[Lord Darkview]

One of the cool parts of Bahra's build is how many extra slots you get by playing DFD over SFM+equipment. More precisely, you get 3-4 extra slots. This allows you to play a lot more specialized guys.

I don't quite know how I feel about Hallowed Spiritkeeper. I grabbed a set for like $1, because you can't really go wrong at that price. It seems like it may be better than Brimaz, generally. The only snag is it's a card you'd really rather have in the mid-game, and then only against decks that you're not bringing in RiP against. A singleton in the 75 to tutor up seems reasonable, but I can't see many decks that I'd want more than two copies against.

Thalia HC has also been better than Brimaz for me, due to First Strike walling, interactions with Karakas, being a meaningful tax generally, doing some work against Sneak Attack and Reality Smasher, and being solid in general versus Elves.

For me however, it seems likely that this 3-drop slot will instead become a third Recruiter, to virtually increase my Crusader, SFM, and Thalia GoT count, while giving me an extra shot at post-SB creatures.

[Koke_MTG]

Hey guys,

I top8'ed yesterday at one of the biggest Legacy events in Spain over the year (140~ players).

I ran the Wr list with which I feel more confortable: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/994583#paper

I felt great all the week before the event. Run the same list with some nice results: triple 4-1 and a 3-0

My overall record over the main event was 6-1-1, losing in quarters against a friend on Grixis Delver. My matchups in swiss rounds were like:

Bant DeathBlade 2-1
Burn 2-1
UW Control 2-0
Team América 0-2
Eldrazi Stompy 2-1
Mono-Red Sneak 2-1
Grixis Delver 2-0
ID

Deck felt great (especially P&K) despite the fact that I don't think we actually have 60%+ matchups in our favor like other times.

In fact, we start a lot of games from behind against DRS.

Delver decks grind now quite better and can attack from more angles and more effectively without being punished.

Is quite hard to interact against some kind of combos nowadays, like Sneak & Show, Reanimator strategies and Turbo Depths as well. Also because we're "forced" to improve our capacity to grind losing some capacity against combo.

I see dark times for D&T until DRS is done. Although I'm gonna keep playing it for sure and hope to do a nice work in París and Birmingham next month.

[redtwister]

@Koke_MTG
Nice job!

[hill_giant]

Still at GP Seattle and now we have a winner.

There was a lot of D&T here this weekend I mean A LOT ...

The reality is that no d&t decks did well, perused the top 40 or tables in last Swiss round and hardly saw any players.

Uggg it’s sad and disappointing

Delver is just so consistent and powerful and ugggh

I just hate that delver feels like a bad match up

Why does delver feel like a bad matchup? I played against delver six times at the GP and only lost once to really bad draws. Delver is what we're meant to be preying on, so if we get to the point where we're not winning that matchup, it's time to move to a different deck. Sword of fire and ice is so good against them.

[J ♥ 5]

Hey Guys,
Figured i'd post a brief tournament report from GP Seattle!

Given the amount of pile hopping around, and the large increase (at least in the PNW) of BUG strategies (both delver & control) I opted for the following list:

2 Cavern of Souls 
3 Karakas 
10 Plains 
4 Rishadan Port 
4 Wasteland

4 Flickerwisp 
4 Mirran Crusader 
4 Mother of Runes 
3 Phyrexian Revoker 
2 Recruiter of the Guard 
1 Sanctum Prelate
4 Stoneforge Mystic 
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Aether Vial 
1 Batterskull 
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

//SIDEBOARD

2 Containment Priest
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist 
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Path to Exile 
2 Rest in Peace 
2 Surgical Extraction 
1 Sword of War and Peace

I've been testing the red splash off and on for the last few months, but mono white really is my home.


Some friends & I started out the week coming down from Vancouver to compete in the 5k (Duel for Duals) @ Mox Boarding house. This was an excellent tournament, however the short form is I lost a few times and ended up placing 15th. Not good enough to get some sweet duals, but certainly sweet enough to prepare me for the main event.

Thursday I scrub out of the last chance qualifier against delver and decide to go get some cards sold & some cards signed and go in to day 1 fighting the first two rounds, but at least clear minded about things I wanted to do.

Now full disclaimer I somehow lost my notebook between day 1 and day 2, so I don't really have sideboard notes - please ask if you have any questions


Round 1 - John Barth - BUG Control - 2-0
On the Draw:

This is the matchup I wanted to see all day, Mirran Crusaders shined at attacking through everything aside from True Names, paired with some good ports I locked this up pretty quickly
Highlight - I have a vial on 3 and no creatures, opponent has a strix and a bunch of land and a couple cards in hand and is at 4 - the only way I lose here is if he can cast an edict on me, so I use my 3 ports to port him out across different phases of his turn, so he only has one mana left by the time its endstep - vial in crusader and whammo.

Round 2 - Jonathan Mackenzie - Eldrazi - 2-0
Game 1 was decided by a waste & port heavy hand, leaving Jonathan unable to cast many spells while I was beating him with a crusader and he could only play x/2's to block.
Game 2 was very similar, except he got a chalice on one out in between which left some removal stranded for me. He did end up attempting to cast an endless one for x = 1 to get a blocker to which i happily pointed out his chalice and continued to attack him with my crusaders & Gideon

Round 3 - Jeff Wilcox - RB Reanimator - 2-0
Game 1 Opponent mulls to 6 and reveals chancellor, then unmasks me and looks at my hand of mother of runes, stoneforge, thalia and some lands and says 'cool, maverick!' (This was my first indication he was fairly new to legacy)
He ended up not having any other plays and passes the turn, i throw a mom down in to the chancellor so i can try to thalia on time next turn and pass, he draws a card and passes back with no plays, i play thalia and its lights out.
Game 2 I keep a hand with RIP and some other relevant spells, he bins a grislebrand and unmasks me taking RIP, I lead on karakas and (very luckily) peeled a surgical and take his threat out of the bin then proceed to aggro him out.

Round 4 - John Seow - Grixis Delver - 2-0
Game 1 i spot him play deathrite off of a usea, which usually is a good indicator they don't have that many lands (no fetch), i plow the deathrite, next turn he ponders and passes, and i waste his usea then proceed to ride the mana advantage to victory
Game 2 we end up fairly similar, except we both fire off a ton of wastelands - during which i manage to get all of his useas and keep the deathrites off the table. Without black mana he can't keep up.

Round 5 - Eric Froelich - Miracles - 2-1
So I'm already running exceptionally hot, and when I see I get paired against Efro I get a little nervous for two reasons, he is a fantastic magic player, and then this also brings in the possiblity of a feature match, which I haven't actually had at a GP yet.
Well, the feature match ended up happening: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/247289683?t=06h08m12s
I would suggest watching it for more info, but the short form is here:
G1 -> I'm missing a plow and get mentored
G2 -> I do the D&T thing
G3 -> There were a few oddball swords to plowshares from Efro's side which I was more than happy to have happen as it meant he tapped out, and sword of war & peace got to show itself on the big stage. The confusion from the announcers here was actually shared by me at the time, I was getting pretty shaky and my heart was beating out of my chest once it looked like i was going to beat Efro on camera and I missed that he gained three life when I swords'd his mentor.
The good news is that even if he had a way to deal with my crusader post attack, my hand was the most stacked it was all weekend and I was GOING to get that last two damage in.

Round 6 - Darren Rennick - Goblins - 2-0
Once I see I'm playing against Goblins I can't help but gush about them being in this bracket, my opponent was a great guy who was also very happy to be doing so well with the deck.
G1 sword of fire & ice did it's thing, I managed to hold off a few attacks by two lackeys early on by having a mom up and a vial on 2 - I didn't have anything I could have put in so if he would have connected and dropped something I was in trouble, but thankfully he was too scared of me blocking both he didn't make the attacks.
G2 he gets going pretty wide but i stabilize and start murdering his board with equipment

Round 7 - Jacob Birch - Infect - 0-2
By this round the mental exhaustion of the day was creeping in, I was making a point between every round to eat some of the nuts/fruit I brought with me and drink a bunch of water, and then try to really visualize everything that is happening at the start of each of my turns, and this round is where that all kind of got derailed (I was also super excited at being locked for day 2 at x-2 at worst)
G1 i just don't get the pieces I need and get infected out
G2 I spend all game porting his inkmonths and trying to find an angle to put some pressure on, I end up recruiter -> wisp chaining to get some fliers going, but I actually missed some damage on him earlier and didn't double check which lead to me being too defensive when I could have actually gotten the kill and pushed it to game three, Instead I put him to 3 and get killed on the crack back.

Round 8 - Kevin King - Lands - 2-0
G1 I keep him off green sources and hes a little starved for Mana, I get some equipement up and port his mazes so i can get in and attack for lethal
G2 i get a prelate down on 2 (which is a little awkward with my RIP in hand, but hey its still great) and force him to go almost all in for the marit lage on his turn, putting him down to one mana source (in the 5k I actually misplayed and didn't force this against turbo depths which is the reason I lost, so hey... I'm remember things!) and get to flickerwisp it away on my turn and crash in for victory shortly after

Finish day one having gone 7 - 1, only losing three games. A ton of stuff has had to break my way for this to have happened, but hey thats Magic right - Nobody does well without luck, and nobody does well with ONLY luck


Day Two
Round 9 - Aaron Barich - Infect - 2-1
G1 - I'm keeping him off infectors and hes hitting me a few times with an exalted noble heirarch. I'm at a pretty healthy life total and he attacks with the arbor, i decide to chump with my stoneforge just to try and dodge some amount of exactly what happened: invigorate + invigorate + become immense + berserk (which is totally sick), game is over.
G2 - I keep him locked down, he kills my jitte but my damage is still too good.
G3 - My hand is swords, path and some other action - snap keep. I get rid of basically all of his creatures he draws, and we keep trading removal spell for creatures, he finally draws a harder one for me to deal with (inkmoth) and i peel the wasteland. Definitely ran very hot this game and kept him off action.

Round 10 - Ryan Sala - Grixis Delver - 2-1
Here comes the day of the format boogeymen, lately I've felt slightly disfavoured against grixis, the sideboard plans are all so broad, and they have a variety of good-value answers to almost everything we're doing
Regardless I managed to take the round in three

Round 11 - Ian Roy - ANT - 2-0
G1 he has a slow hand that doesn't develop post thalia
G2 he goes for an adnauseum with 0 mana floating and a past in flames, infernal tutor and some rituals in the bin, in response I surgical his lions eye diamonds. He flips ~ 15 cards and ends up at 2 life without Tendrils. He makes basically infinite black & storm count while burning his petals to cast cantrips to try and draw tendrils, then he has to resort to cabal therapying himself to try to empty his hand and cast the infernal tutor, he has too many cards with different names and can't pull it off. I win the game shortly after.

Round 12 - Kusakabe Kyohei - Czech Pile - 0-2
Kyohei had my number this match, he was playing 2+ bolts which makes mirran crusader definitely worse, and every time i tried to get something online he had the decays, bolt, or kolaghans command.
G2 was very similar, I never drew any of my sideboard cards and just couldn't put up a fight.
I'm a little miffed about losing a matchup I was tech'd for - but this is how playing no blue cards goes sometimes :)

Round 13 - Jeremy Dezani - BUG Control - 0-1-1
Another feature match, which I'm feeling more comfortable about this time
(EDIT: Match Here -> https://www.twitch.tv/videos/248897603)
G1 I keep a pretty slow hand that I figure has game against a lot of fair decks, he turned out to be playing one which was great, but his answers just lined up better than my threats. Also I should have been paying more attention to time time and conceded earlier, in addition I feel like I should have called a judge for some slow play as this game took easily 35 minutes which included some things like taking 4+ minutes to resolve cantrips. I'm sure this is all benign and innocent, but at the point in game 2 when I felt like I could win it, it was pretty discouraging to see I would have to have won game 3 in around 5 minutes given that I think the play time was about 20% me 80% him. Calling for slow play is something I have a hard time doing in general, and I believe the additional pressure of playing a pro, being in the feature match, and having a bunch of spectators in person made me avoid it.

G2 I feel like i was so close this game, but a lot of my draws just didn't pan out, we finish on turns and he wins 1-0-1
In the coverage this match Reid made a comment about a great player noticing that Jeremy's plan had shifted once he started trying to remove my Mother of runes, I definitely was on some amount of autopilot this match and exasperated from my poor draws and didn't pick up on it, for now I'd love to blame this on the feature match pressure but I think this is a real learning experience and something I'm going to be more keenly aware of in the future.

This match was my heartbreaker as it meant I was out of top 8 contention, even if winning this one and then an additional three was unlikely, it was definitely deflating since the games felt like I didn't have much play in either of them.
Thankfully my friends came by with a sandwich and picked me right up.

Round 14 - Joby Parrish - RB Reanimator - 2-1
G1 he shows me a chancellor and reanimates a bunch of stuff.
G2 i keep a karakas rest in peace hand, he jams grislebrand and draws 14 before it gets bounced, he pitches a bunch of stuff to reanimate next turn and i drop the RIP to shut him down
G3 I D&T him hard, early karakas vs no quick reanimation followed by some thalias & containment priest takes me in to round 15 x-3

Round 15 - Marcel Dizon - Grixis - 1-2
Marcel is a local from Vancouver who a year or two ago I would run in to FREQUENTLY in the top 8 of local tournaments, i believe lifetime our stats are pretty even and we have a good little rivalry, he has been telling me all day he is coming for me and i've been dreading it because I know if I lose i'll hear about it for a while haha.
We sit down and play one of the most casual and fun matches of the day, throwing minor barbs and shit talk back and forth, I take him game 1 then he unfortunately gets me with the key sideboard cards of dread of night G2 and staticaster G3.
I actually thought i was out of prizes after this loss and was pretty bummed, but after the standings are posted I ended up 54th, which is just 10 better than minimum to cash. but when it comes down to it if I'm going to lose round 15 of a legacy GP i'd rather it be to Marcel than some random, it seemed fitting that we both made the trip down and were battling for extra cash at the 11th hour.

All in all I had periods of running exceptionally hot, and ended up with the best GP placement I've ever had. I think the deck is in a decent place in the meta right now, but the abundance of 2 for 1s and things that just incidentally kill equipment does make things difficult. The BUG matchup is basically great until they cast a true name or marsh casualties - but abrupt decay on sword can make some crusaders just charge to their deaths.

The key I was most proud of for the event (aside from making cash which was my goal in heading down) was playing tightly, there were very few times that I can say I honestly made a mistake and it feels really good to have that technical practice pay off - big thanks to everyone on these forums and all of the grinders at my local shop for helping me get to this point - hoping to find another relatively local legacy GP to jam and make top 8 in soon :)

[Borgur]

2 Cavern of Souls 
3 Karakas 
10 Plains 
4 Rishadan Port 
4 Wasteland

4 Flickerwisp 
4 Mirran Crusader 
4 Mother of Runes 
3 Phyrexian Revoker 
2 Recruiter of the Guard 
1 Sanctum Prelate
4 Stoneforge Mystic 
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Aether Vial 
1 Batterskull 
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

//SIDEBOARD

2 Containment Priest
2 Council's Judgment
2 Ethersworn Canonist 
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Path to Exile 
2 Rest in Peace 
2 Surgical Extraction 
1 Sword of War and Peace

Congratulations with a fantastic result!

How did Gideon perform, and when did you side him in?

Would you make any changes to your deck based on the weekend?

[a tribe called trest]

Any merit to trying to mangara people out again if going away from the stoneforge package? Could bump to 24 lands to support restoration angel to help abuse it plus give an extra evasive beater. You can make a pretty flyer heavy build to take the sting out of losing the equipment pushing damage through and to block delvers.

rough creature list but something like

4x mother of runes
4x thalia, guardian of thraben
4x serra avenger
4x flickerwisp
3x thalia, heretic cathar
2x restoration angel
2x recruiter of the guard
2x mangara of corondor
1x sanctum prelate
1x vryn wingmare
1x aven mindcensor

[Lord Darkview]

Mangara is rather slow, and many matchups require speed. I can see packing a copy, but probably just one, and relying on Recruiter to get it when it's needed.

[Plague Sliver]

Hey Guys,
Figured i'd post a brief tournament report from GP Seattle!

Jeff, congrats again on a fantastic result!

[hill_giant]

Mangara is rather slow, and many matchups require speed. I can see packing a copy, but probably just one, and relying on Recruiter to get it when it's needed.

When I've played him as a recruiter target, I never felt like he was worth fetching. The card is already slow, and when you have to recruit him, wait a turn, cast him, wait a turn, use him, then it's just so slow that it'll never help. Vial obviously helps speed up that process, but when you don't have it, Mangara is just so weak. He dies to everything, too, and you get nothing if he doesn't untap, so really you want a vial and a mom and a Karakas in order to make him good. Compared to bigger value cards like P&K that are difficult to answer with a single card and gain immediate value on ETB, Mangara just feels too clunky, like you've probably won anyway in any game where he comes online. If sneak and show gets big again, then maybe he becomes worthwhile again, but he's just so clunky.