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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #10541
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by studderingdave View Post
    What is the general opinion on Cavern of Souls? I have been running 2 and it hasn't felt as strong as it used to. I suppose creature diversity in our deck hampers it a bit, seems like the 10-12 basic plains are serving people better.
    It really dépends on your creature setup.
    Diversity but also casting cost. Serra avenger / Mirran crusader / Flickerwisp are harder to cast if you named kor for Soneforge mystic :)
    I wouldn't go Under 1 cavern as it is still very good against blue deck when it happens to show up.


    On another topic:
    I kept seeing lists playing 4 giver of runes over Mother of runes in MTG TOP 8.
    Is it a typo? Or do people consider that the colorless protection is really better than having the possibility for Mother of runes to protect herself?

  2. #10542

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    On another topic:
    I kept seeing lists playing 4 giver of runes over Mother of runes in MTG TOP 8.
    Is it a typo? Or do people consider that the colorless protection is really better than having the possibility for Mother of runes to protect herself?
    In a format filled with W6 it's good to have some x/2 creatures.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    The only glass cannon here is the pilot.
    I play decks with a lot of white enchantments, and white isn't even my favorite color.

  3. #10543
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by aedemiel View Post
    In a format filled with W6 it's good to have some x/2 creatures.
    Aaaahh :) I forgot about the 2 toughness :)
    i'm going to order 4 of these right now. you never know :)

  4. #10544

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I wish Iatee were here. I'm back on Wr Taxes and would like to hear his thoughts on everything. I miss 10 years ago when these boards were a goldmine of interesting and useful conversations full of innovation and creativity.

    Time marches on.

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  5. #10545
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Why not post your list, and hear what all the others on The Source have to say? :)

  6. #10546
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Yeah i second that.
    But at the same time i guess that people are less likely to play the deck in a world of Wrenn and Six and that's why there is so few activity here...

  7. #10547

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by colo View Post
    Why not post your list, and hear what all the others on The Source have to say? :)
    Hey, thanks for the friendly post, I will this weekend. I didn't mean to imply no one here was good enough to help or have good ideas, it was simply his pet and I liked his thinking.

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  8. #10548
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    I didn't perceive it that way, was just trying encourage you sharing :) Wr has always been a strong variant of the deck (I was on Imperial Taxes for a long time before Recruiter of the Guard got printed); I'm looking forward to take in what you came up with.

    Has anyone tried to incorporate Deafening Silence into the 75(+) yet?

  9. #10549
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by colo View Post
    I didn't perceive it that way, was just trying encourage you sharing :) Wr has always been a strong variant of the deck (I was on Imperial Taxes for a long time before Recruiter of the Guard got printed); I'm looking forward to take in what you came up with.

    Has anyone tried to incorporate Deafening Silence into the 75(+) yet?
    I understand that it is a 1 mana answer to storm, and that it comes one turn earlier than cannonist, but i'd rather have a ten turn clock than have something sitting there waiting to eat an echoing truth. I think the fact that it does damage really balances the fact that you can loose on turn 2.

  10. #10550
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    I understand that it is a 1 mana answer to storm, and that it comes one turn earlier than cannonist, but i'd rather have a ten turn clock than have something sitting there waiting to eat an echoing truth. I think the fact that it does damage really balances the fact that you can loose on turn 2.
    It doesn't die to Massacre.
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
    Get it...? Ass, u, me?

    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  11. #10551
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    I wish Iatee were here. I'm back on Wr Taxes and would like to hear his thoughts on everything. I miss 10 years ago when these boards were a goldmine of interesting and useful conversations full of innovation and creativity.

    Time marches on.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Hey that's very nice of you. I also think the current state of this message board (and message boards in general) is kinda tragic. I grew up on message boards and think that Discord is just a poor imitation of one.

    I've moved from playing Taxes to Humans and although it doesn't even have an easily findable page on The Source, I'm convinced that it's the best Thalia deck in the format right now and very much a tier 1 deck. Humans was kinda the logical endpoint for WR taxes - it was always moving towards more Caverns and humans. I feel like D&T took a huge hit with Modern Horizons and I'd be surprised if it ever regains its place in the format (though who knows, they do like printing pushed hatebears.)

    If I were playing D&T I would be going pretty hard on Prelate and Tomik right now - those cards have been winning a ton of games for me. If I were playing WR, I would definitely be trying the new Shatter guy, and maybe Robber of the Rich.

  12. #10552
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    If you're losing to X/1 hate, is it worth just shifting the deck around that by either:

    a) playing anthem effects like Benalish Marshal/Honor of the Pure

    b) playing more X/2 hatebears like Leonin Arbiter+Ghost Quarter, Sanctum Prelate, Tomik

    c) maindeck Phyrexian Revoker naming Wrenn..

  13. #10553

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    If you're losing to X/1 hate, is it worth just shifting the deck around that by either:

    a) playing anthem effects like Benalish Marshal/Honor of the Pure

    b) playing more X/2 hatebears like Leonin Arbiter+Ghost Quarter, Sanctum Prelate, Tomik

    c) maindeck Phyrexian Revoker naming Wrenn..
    I'm not, but I appreciate the suggestions. I agree with you, in fact:

    A.) I am playing Force of Virtues in the side.

    B.) I'm playing Wr Taxes, not traditional taxes, and when I get a second I'll post it. It has 1 of both Prelate and Tomik main.

    C.) Already play 2 revoker main, have for years.



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  14. #10554

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Here is my current list:

    25
    3 Mother
    2 Giver
    4 Thalia
    1 Tomik
    2 Revoker
    3 Stoneforge
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Prelate
    3 Flickerwisp
    2 Recruiter otG
    1 Imperial Recruiter
    1 Mirran Crusader
    1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar

    11
    1 BS
    1 SoFI
    1 Jitte
    4 StP
    4 Vial

    24
    4 Wasteland
    4 Port
    3 Karakas
    2 Sunbaked Canyon
    1 Plateau
    4 Arid Mesa
    1 Prismatic Vista
    4 Plains
    1 Mountain

    SB:15
    2 Harsh Mentor
    1 Tomik
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Prelate
    1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
    1 Rest in Peace
    2 Council's Judgment
    3 Deafening Silence
    2 Force of Virtue
    1 FLEX (currently a Pithing Needle)


    There it is. Nothing groundbreaking, just trying to attack a new meta.

  15. #10555

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    Here is my current list:

    25
    3 Mother
    2 Giver
    4 Thalia
    1 Tomik
    2 Revoker
    3 Stoneforge
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Prelate
    3 Flickerwisp
    2 Recruiter otG
    1 Imperial Recruiter
    1 Mirran Crusader
    1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar

    11
    1 BS
    1 SoFI
    1 Jitte
    4 StP
    4 Vial

    24
    4 Wasteland
    4 Port
    3 Karakas
    2 Sunbaked Canyon
    1 Plateau
    4 Arid Mesa
    1 Prismatic Vista
    4 Plains
    1 Mountain

    SB:15
    2 Harsh Mentor
    1 Tomik
    1 Magus of the Moon
    1 Prelate
    1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
    1 Rest in Peace
    2 Council's Judgment
    3 Deafening Silence
    2 Force of Virtue
    1 FLEX (currently a Pithing Needle)


    There it is. Nothing groundbreaking, just trying to attack a new meta.
    Can you explain your choices?

  16. #10556
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Added formatting

    Interesting choices. I see you're using multiple of those angles to attack the meta. I really like the 2 Force of Virtue in the SB and Deafening Silence as spell hate that doesn't die to Plague/Massacre.

    How much value do you get out of the red splash? Seems like it's mainly there for a 1-of Magus. Is Pia that strong against the meta?

    I like the 3xKarakas to hate on Depths.

  17. #10557

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristin183 View Post
    Can you explain your choices?

    If you have specific questions I'm able to address them. I'm not writing the equivalent of a mini-primer, though, no.


    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Added formatting



    Interesting choices. I see you're using multiple of those angles to attack the meta. I really like the 2 Force of Virtue in the SB and Deafening Silence as spell hate that doesn't die to Plague/Massacre.

    How much value do you get out of the red splash? Seems like it's mainly there for a 1-of Magus. Is Pia that strong against the meta?

    I like the 3xKarakas to hate on Depths.

    The red slash is not about magus, that is in fact the most gimmicky aspect of it. Pia and Kiran is a grinding machine that when paired with vial on 4 and a Karakas is a token engine that needs only time to get there.

    I am only testing Harsh Mentor, as I'm unsure how good it will be against W&6 getting wastelands and fetches back. I thought it may be the straw that broke the camel's back here.

    I have added Sky Terror as card 61 to test, also want to test thalia 2.0 as 61st card with a second in the board.

    Karakas has always been a 3-4 of in DnT, and long before the printing of D.D.

    This is what I mean when I say I miss Iatee...

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  18. #10558
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Now that's a rather light R splash; I was expecting something more... daring, or revolutionary, I guess? :)

    With this specific selection of creatures, don't you think it'd suffice/be better to just run Cavern of Souls, and take most countermagic concerns out of the game for D&T? I recognize that'd make Pia and Kiran harder to cast, but there's ways around that, and you generally only want them on the battlefield if you can recur them, or they'll finish the job for sure, so ticking up Vial to 4 isn't so bad.

    The miser Imperial Recruiter is there to be able to fetch Tomik, or am I missing something?

    Have you ever considered Slayers' Stronghold as a decent Wr utility land?

    I believe that Thalia, Heretic Cathar will prove much stronger in any testing than Sky Terror ever could.


    I'm gong on the record once more to say that I think it's incorrect these days NOT to run a single Stonecloaker in the main. In many cases, it is a superior Flickerwisp.


    A few months back already I was wondering if it would make sense to "cross-breed" Wr D&T with Big D&T (the variants that run Restoration Angel et al.), and consider having Vial go to 4 as part of the core strategy. Now, In a W&6 and generally walker-heavy meta, I think we can afford to go slower, but higher, and bring in a few tricks that aren't expected. There's also a bunch of powerful cards that are, I think, being overlooked by the community (at least as far as I'm aware), and that deserve testing. If I weren't so constrained on time, I'd really like to extensivley test Alms Collector and Stalking Leonin in a Big D&T list, for example.

  19. #10559

    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Its not a light red splash, its the traditional red splash. I put in the canyons because in a wasteland heavy meta, these draw you cards in response rather than just dying like cavern, and in a deck with 24 lands, its nice to be able to turn them into pressure later.

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  20. #10560
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    Re: [Deck] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by colo View Post
    Now that's a rather light R splash; I was expecting something more... daring, or revolutionary, I guess? :)

    With this specific selection of creatures, don't you think it'd suffice/be better to just run Cavern of Souls, and take most countermagic concerns out of the game for D&T? I recognize that'd make Pia and Kiran harder to cast, but there's ways around that, and you generally only want them on the battlefield if you can recur them, or they'll finish the job for sure, so ticking up Vial to 4 isn't so bad.

    The miser Imperial Recruiter is there to be able to fetch Tomik, or am I missing something?
    Seems like it is.
    Not sure about it thought. Flickerwisp is also a good target vs darkdepths and you have the possibility of chaining these if you have a recruiter of the guard and not playing vs dark depths.

    Have you ever considered Slayers' Stronghold as a decent Wr utility land?

    I believe that Thalia, Heretic Cathar will prove much stronger in any testing than Sky Terror ever could.


    I'm gong on the record once more to say that I think it's incorrect these days NOT to run a single Stonecloaker in the main. In many cases, it is a superior Flickerwisp.
    Could you please elaborate? Flickerwisp does extend your board and can target an opponent's permanent. This is why we use it instead of stonecloaker.

    A few months back already I was wondering if it would make sense to "cross-breed" Wr D&T with Big D&T (the variants that run Restoration Angel et al.), and consider having Vial go to 4 as part of the core strategy. Now, In a W&6 and generally walker-heavy meta, I think we can afford to go slower, but higher, and bring in a few tricks that aren't expected. There's also a bunch of powerful cards that are, I think, being overlooked by the community (at least as far as I'm aware), and that deserve testing. If I weren't so constrained on time, I'd really like to extensivley test Alms Collector and Stalking Leonin in a Big D&T list, for example.
    If spirit of the labyrinth is not played today, I don't see why alms collector would be played more (Except maybe for the fact that it has more than 1 toughness) but of course a bit of testing would be better.
    Stalking leonin: Why not. it's obviously a 2 for 1, with a decent body.

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