I personally am really struggling with the Lands matchup as Mono W. I was wondering what people were doing to combat that, I've been considering Cataclysm over Gideon as most the fair BUG matchups feel like byes with 4 crusader. Additionally, I might trying fitting a second Prepare into the 75.
Thanks in advance
I went 1-4 with the monowhite build against Lands in the 100 something matches I played. Both of those options are reasonable things to do and likely your best options in mono white. RiP #3 is also reasonable, especially if you aren't on Surgicals.Originally Posted by staticgripped
Here's sort of a neat opportunity: ItisUnfair and I got paired last night while we both were streaming. If you're interested to hear the breakdown of a match from both sides from high level players, it's available. My side (D&T) is the first match in my stream here. His side (Miracles) is at about the 4 hour and 34 minutes mark of his video here.
So, I threw caution to the wind and decided to try out a couple of Dire Fleet Daredevils in a couple of leagues yesterday (4-1 both times). So things I ended up doing.
I Cabal Therapied two of my Storm opponents.
I had Vial on 2 and had checked my Miracles opponent because they had a Counterspell in the graveyard.
I Thoughtseized a Pile opponent.
I Brainstormed + Fetch once or twice.
Things I had the opportunity to do, but didn't draw it or was already super far ahead:
Turn off threshold or shrink Grim Flayer/Tarmogoyf
Ambush a Snapcaster Mage cast
Have extra STP in the mirror
Hymn my Pile opponent
Flickerwisp it for extra value (the timing on this is awkward since I have to target an instant)
Probably the most important thing that it offered was another First Strike attacker. There was at least one instance where I shoved with it + held P&K activation. It's a much more disposable body after the trigger resolves than Thalia, so I felt a lot safer going into combat with it.
Sideboarding became more interesting because there were some matchups where Rest in Peace is marginal, but I was OK having Daredevil because of the body (like Miracles, where sometimes you bring in Ethersworn Canonist as a body that incidently stops Snapcaster activations.... this is kind of the same thing, but a better body), and other matchups where I wanted both because I was OK with the nonbos present in the deck already (Thalia makes the card awkward, so does Prelate on occasion, etc), since the red variant of the deck already has nonbos with Wasteland/Port + Magus. *shrug* if it wins the games who cares right?
So, like people have been suggesting, it's not the most consistent card, but it is the most fun I've had toying around with one since Aven Mindcensor.
If you were curious, the list I used was essentially the list that Medea has been championing on his streams, -Palace Jailer and -Rest in Peace in the main for the Daredevils. I haven't been terribly impressed with Palace Jailer for various reasons, and cutting Rest in Peace for the graveyard matters card makes sense to me. I'll continue toying around with it, if for no other reason because it's hilarious.
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
3 Flickerwisp
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
2 Plains
1 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Plateau
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
5 white Fetches
Sideboard:
3 Path to Exile
1 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Cunning Sparkmage
2 Cataclysm
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
I'll probably try it for funsies in the same slots as you. I agree about Jailer and I haven't cared for the RIP much either.
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That's interesting piroko139, I might play around with them this weekend. Did you ever have one vs an active DRS? When did it feel like a bad card?
I did not. I faced Pile twice when I played the leagues. The first time I got smashed. It was somewhere north of removal spells including KCommand, so I was both hellbent and empty boarded by the end of turn 6 or so. I don't believe in Daredevil without Vial in the Pile matchup so that is an awkward situation. I boarded it out when I was heavy on Rest in Peace in the boarded games, so the DRS I did see were 1 mana Squires anyways.
The second time I ran them over, Thoughtseizing them off Leovold. They did nothing the rest of the game iirc.
Mostly, it feels a lot like Flickerwisp where its value is entirely centric around Vial. It's fine without it, but it needs Vial to be truly good. I alluded to the weird interaction with Daredevil and Flickerwisp, but in a lot of cases, I'm OK with a 2/1 first striker that screws with their graveyard once in a while.
Although I haven't run into Reanimator yet, that probably feels miserable when it could be a RiP. Maybe that's OK given that it's not a huge percentage of the metagame.
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@piroko139
This didn't necessarily occur to me earlier, but this might not be the best for card a RiP deck to play. If you continue running these, you might want to consider things like Surgicals, Faerie Macabre, and Containment Priests over RiP.
I ran a few leagues with a 2 Daredevil build and didn't do too well, though the card was pretty great in a few spots.
The issues I found were:
a. Interaction with Thalia. This card is naturally a 3 drop if you don't have Vial and want to get any value, and it's a 4 drop if you do. There were a lot of 'if I draw one more mana I can do this cool play' situations where I didn't draw the mana. (One I remember was 'cast their Punishing Fire to get rid of it.')
b. Red mana. Vs Wasteland decks the RW splash builds don't want to expose their red mana sources until the turn you're gonna cast a Magus. You fetch basics early and basically play a Mono-W deck, until you're not. Increasing the number of red cards maindeck forces you to expose your red source early, which makes you noticeably softer to Wasteland mirrors.
c. Adds another x/1 to the deck.
That said, the card is legacy-power-level and when it was good it was a 2 for 1 with a decent body, which is what you want in a grindy matchup. It gives you access to a lot of weird dimensions new for this deck, but I think my original guess 'it's just a bit too random' might be correct in the end.
Hey Static, what is your 75? Seeing the whole list might help us diagnose what's going on?
Thanks,
I just 5-0'd with this one:
though FWIW it was kinda an unrepresentative league, played UR Delver 3 times and won a lot of games off Prelate.
So how crazy am I to want to start maindecking a second Prelate?
Seems like it might help shore up bad matchups like Miracles, Sneak & Show, and Lands, solidify Delver and Storm, turn off other random cards on random board states.
So it seems like a strong card against roughly half of the top decks in the format, similar to how often Mirran Crusader is a very good card.
(Disclaimer, I have a bunch of Punishing fire decks locally, so my list might be skewing towards trying to fight that)
Current Decklist for reference:
Maindeck:
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Sanctum Prelate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
5 Plains
5 Snow-Covered Plains
Sideboard:
2 Path to Exile
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Rest in Peace
2 Council's Judgment
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Cataclysm
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Comments on the performance of Direfleet Daredevil? seems pretty significant to be able to use opposing removal/cantrips.I just 5-0'd with this one:
though FWIW it was kinda an unrepresentative league, played UR Delver 3 times and won a lot of games off Prelate.
The times where it's amazing, it's probably the only thing in the deck that can win you the game. Otherwise, it's a 2/1 First Strike. I haven't had a middling performance of it yet. I suppose the game where I cast Reanimate on their Chancellor close, since I was going to win the game anyways.
However, your assumption of having more removal in creature matchups is accurate. There were a lot of times where it was just Nekrataal and was amazing. I'm liking it more and more I play with it (probably because it's just an incredibly fun card), but the more experienced players are right, it has wildly erratic results.
Yeah, it feels most consistently good vs Lightning Bolt decks so far, just because they reliably have Bolt-type-stuff in the yard and creatures in play. We would be playing a 2/1 Nekrataal for 2R vs those decks if it existed. Cantripping is also fine, though it generally doesn't feel like what you want this card to be doing. (I did enjoy Brainstorming + shuffling away 2 Thalias vs a Dread of Night though.)
Then you have the 'weird stuff' games, like reanimating their dude, or the other day I Crop Rotated vs Turbo Depths for a Karakas for a huge blowout. The value is just really hard to judge in those matchups because it has the capability for huge blowouts, but it also often doesn't have targets and it's pretty hard to predict. It is a lot of fun for sure, it kinda feels like playing cube, since you really have no idea what's going to happen every game.
@iatee
Let me know if you think the card has real tournament potential after a few more leagues. I'm pretty skeptical about the consistency of that card, but I'll test it if I keep hearing that it is more than pulling its weight.
I think the card is worth testing seriously, I could see 1 copy ending up somewhere in the 75. I think I'm doing a tiny bit worse on average than I did with my previous list, but I think my previous build was already softer to combo than fair decks, and taking out Wingmare + Prelate didn't help. So I rebuilt it with them in it and I'm doing better. (I took out a SfM - it makes more sense to have this guy replace a 'fair deck' card.) The card definitely is legacy-powerful, it gets FoW'd and Thoughtseized quite a bit.
Man, imagine using the guy to predict their terminus away...
Yeah, you can also Portent them.
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