I have been experiencing a lot of dread of nights recently. Considering a couple always watching for the sideboard which could be interesting with crop-mate. Good way to return thalia onto a safe board.
If dread of night count increases, I'd just add War Priest of Thune to the sideboard. It has additional value against aluren, food chain and sneaky show, which are all great decks right now as well.
That is definitely fair. I have a leonin relic-warder in the main for dread of night currently. I was just thinking that having access to vigilance and a little buff for our creatures could be decent. Likely at 3 mana it is not really where we want to be though.Originally Posted by Mad Mat
The only thing kind of neat about human-wisp is that it can take things out like Marit Lage.
Fogging a Griselbrand swing off only lands I think is pretty hot. Also blocking tricks with Recruiters, SFMs, Flickerwisps, etc.
Unfortunately if this card ever gets included it would only be as a 1-of and only when Dread of Nights are rampant.
I won my GPT tonight with DnT. I will post more later in the week. I have another one tomorrow.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Mind posting or linking to your list?
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
This is what I have been on. I forgot to cut a card, but haven't really had any issue with it overall. I may cut Thalia, Heretic Cathar for Serra Avenger if legends miracles keeps showing up to my local meta.
// Deck: death and taxes (61)
// Lands
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
9 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
// Creatures
4 Flickerwisp
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Mangara of Corondor
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Sanctum Prelate
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
// Spells
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Æther Vial
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Batterskull
SB: 1 Blessed Alliance
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Council's Judgment
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
@iatee How do you like the black splash. I saw it pop up once or twice on MTGTop8 and it seems pretty solid, gives you card advantage and a little more help vs unfair decks.
@mykatdied
Why does it make sense to have a Leonin-Relic Warder in the MAIN for Dread of Night, when that card is coming in for sideboard games? If that you're 61st maindeck card functioning as sideboard card #16?
@everyone
I don't think there are any new playable cards for monowhite D&T in the set. Gideon is worth testing (but is likely better in a Miracles or Stoneblade shell). The new white creatures are a little lackluster; they have obvious downsides or limitation in comparison to other cards we already have.
I like the black splash a lot, I think it's the best way to consistently beat TNN. Kambal is very good against Delver/Miracles/Burn and Bob is very good in the fair non-blue matchups. I do think the red splash is better positioned at the moment, however.
I went 5-2 for 11th at a ~100 person event yesterday with the WR list I ran at the open, only swapping Relic of Progen for a Containment Priest. The list feels very close to tuned.
I beat Lands, Aggro Loam, Sneak and Show, BUG Delver w/ basics + Snapcasters, Dark Thresh and lost to Grixis Delver twice. The Grixis Delver matchups/games were all very close, both of the losses to one guy were determined by 1 life point (e.g. had a given fetch been a non-fetch I would have won one game, had one of his lands been a fetch I would have won another) and the other match was won by his t3 Dread of Night that only resolved because I didn't find a 2nd white source to cast my Prelate on t3 - would have been an easy win if I did, since he would be facing Mom+Thalia+Prelate on 1 followed by a Sfm next turn.
It's hard to judge how bad the Grixis Delver matchup is since my losses tend to be so close, but I think it's a tiny bit unfavored with what I'm running. Considering going back to 3 Path to Exile in the board, maybe over Pithing Needle. The other option is another Sanctum Prelate in the board, upping the total to 3 in the 75. Sanctum Prelate on 1 really wrecks them, but also awkwardly leaves you even more open to dying to an early Delver.
Another card I was thinking about totally independent of Grixis Delver - Apostle's Blessing. Has anyone ever tested with it extensively? Protecting Vials and Swords on top of creatures for 1 colorless mana seems very attractive in an Abrupt Decay meta. OTOH it is not a creature and this deck isn't great at holding mana up. Faith's Shield does the same thing for W - and also potentially gets you wins out of nowhere in close races, and (kinda randomly) also beats storm Tendrils kills.
What's the list?
23 LANDS
2 Arid Mesa
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Flooded Strand
3 Karakas
3 Plains
1 Plateau
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
26 CREATURES
3 Flickerwisp
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Mother of Runes
1 Palace Jailer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Vryn Wingmare
4 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Swords to Plowshares
7 OTHER SPELLS
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
1 Council's Judgment
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Path to Exile
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Pithing Needle
1 Containment Priest
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Sword of War and Peace
I tried the maindeck LRW before, but didn't like it. The rationale behind this is obviously not dread of night (if people are playing these in the main, you should just not play d&t), but a mainboard answer to jitte, sylvan library and omniscience.
In my experience, I did not like Kambal against delver because their mana denial package makes the ability to cast him too unreliable. That's part of the reason I decided not to run him (multiple times) despite having a black splash. The chief reason to splash black, above anything else, is orzhov pontiff, which covers a huge blind spot of this deck in a lot of match-ups and is therefore an ideal silver bullet. Confidant is great, but you rarely ever tutor for him so he's subpar as a 1-of and I've never been able to find room to include more than one.
I have also noted some recent problems with grixis, mostly because they tend to include more sideboard cards which are really devastating against us in conjunction with their aggro plan (like dread of night, jitte, ancient grudge and true-name nemesis). For this, they tend to be cutting counters, so maybe boarding in council's judgment is an option? If only there were a reclamation sage in white...It's hard to judge how bad the Grixis Delver matchup is since my losses tend to be so close, but I think it's a tiny bit unfavored with what I'm running. Considering going back to 3 Path to Exile in the board, maybe over Pithing Needle. The other option is another Sanctum Prelate in the board, upping the total to 3 in the 75. Sanctum Prelate on 1 really wrecks them, but also awkwardly leaves you even more open to dying to an early Delver.
I think one of the easiest first rules of thumb for d&t cards will always be "is the card reactionary?". Our deck does reactionary really bad, much moreso if not a creature, because our card selection abilities are among the most terrible in the format and we tend to use up a lot of mana each turn. That's what makes these protection spells as problematic as warping wail. They're not unplayable, they're not bad, but the reactionary part is a really significant argument against their inclusion.Another card I was thinking about totally independent of Grixis Delver - Apostle's Blessing. Has anyone ever tested with it extensively? Protecting Vials and Swords on top of creatures for 1 colorless mana seems very attractive in an Abrupt Decay meta. OTOH it is not a creature and this deck isn't great at holding mana up. Faith's Shield does the same thing for W - and also potentially gets you wins out of nowhere in close races, and (kinda randomly) also beats storm Tendrils kills.
Yeah I added it to the main for opposing Jitte, etc and I usually keep it in the 75 as another out to Jitte and Dread of Night. I just forgot to take a card out when I moved the batterskull and added the Sword of War and Peace.
I played the following list in Johnstown, CO on 4/15/2017 at Break From Reality Games, where I finished first, good for 6 packs of MMA3 and 6 byes at Vegas.
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Council's Judgment
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
9 Plains
SB:
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Path to Exile
1 Palace Jailer
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Rest in Peace
1 Council's Judgment
1 Disenchant
1 Pithing Needle
1 Containment Priest
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
My matchups were as follows:
Rd 1: Jason with Miracles, 2-0 WIN
Rd 2: Ian with Burn, 2-0 WIN
RD 3: Tyler with Death and Taxes, 2-0 WIN
RD 4: Andrew with Miracles, 0-2 LOSE
RD 5: Richard (JBlaze here on the Source) with Grixis Strixes: 2-1 WIN
RD 6: ID with Joel, who was on BUG Food Chain
Top 8, I'm 4th Seed.
Quarterfinals: Jason, with a crazy 125 card 4-color NO Elves list: 2-1 WIN
Semifinals: Josh, with Noble BUG: 2-0 WIN
FINALS: Andrew (Same fellow from round 4) with Miracles: 2-0 WIN
I misplay a couple times, but I've never been on camera before this event and I'm nervous, tired and hungry, lol. I've also never won an event before; finding a place to play has been one of the challenges in my life. That's changed in recent years, though.
Notes: Food Chain is not a good matchup to say the least. Having said that, I lucked out and didn't ever have to play it (ID'ed). It is due to the number of BUG lists that I decided to play a Council's Judgment main, and was good all day. I got a little lucky against Burn, that matchup is sort of swingy. It feels doubly draw dependent. DnT mirrors really are about the Jitte, holy crap. I won against miracles with Flickerwisp chain a couple times, and it was awesome. Gideon never got played. I boarded him in, but he feels slow as far as an answer to Dread of Night goes. I swapped the Sword of War and Peace to the board at the last minute because of how many Abrupt Decays I thought would be there, and then also I felt I needed another closer. It seemed correct until I found out in round two that there were about 5 other DnT players in the room, and a couple more Miracles. I have never seen this many Miracles/DnT in Denver, so I guess I didn't really expect it. It did pan out, so I guess for now I'll just keep playing and feeling out my playstyle with the deck. I'm still a noob with it, but I think I'm off to a good start. I'm excited to play the R/W version. I'm 2x Magus of the Moon away (and can't find a Japanese nonfoil preorder on the Harsh Mentors yet). Question, Iatee: Do you prefer the white Recruiter? Is there something it can do that Imperial can't, or is it the mana?
Props to my opponents. I had a lot of fun, thank you. Also, props to this thread. Couldn't have done it without your input, thank you. Slops to the 4-hour drive it takes to get to a place with a Legacy scene.
-ABC
Not in D&T, but I play multiple copies in my own spin of Imperial Painter's main deck, and I usually win when I get to cast it. So many people just assume they can handle a threat of yours with an Abrupt Decay these days... I've always been tempted to run one or two in the side of D&T, too, but never quite got around to it in the end. It's also a tough call when to board it in (and what to board out in its favor), I guess.
The mana, but it also gets Flickerwisp. Doesn't get Kor Skyfisher or Fiend Hunter. I would still be playing a one-of Kor Skyfisher if it did.
@secretly.a.bee
Congrats on your finish!
If you were expecting to play BUG decks all day, I would have jammed Crusader #3 in the main over the CJ. It's a more solid card in a vacuum, and we don't usually want CJ until the sb games anyway; it comes in to deal with opposing hate cards and some random, difficult to answer things like TNN.
@iatee
I think the red splash is a good place to be. I've been mucking around with this over the past few days. Your list is likely closer to optimal than this, but I've had a few ideas I wanted to mess around with...
How's the mono W mirror matchup? Seems like on paper you give up some manabase stability in favor of more powerful effects like sparkmage. How would you normally board with the list that you did well with at the last SCG event?
-4 Thalia, -1 Spirit, -1 Wingmare, -1 Prelate -> +1 Needle, +1 Sword, +1 Sparkmage, +1 Relic-Warder, +2 Path, +1 Judgement? Do you keep in the maguses or do you feel like you can cut some number of them in favor of something like a crusader?
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