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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #8421

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Hi all,
    Do you have somewhere a good side list of each match up for Death and Taxes ? (It's not on Thrabenuniversity). I'd like for example to know if you guys keep the STP post side against Delver.deck, or if RIP + Council is enough. And what do you side off ?
    Thx !

  2. #8422
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    Plague Sliver's Avatar
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Why not Thraben university?
    A book about the dark side of Legacy: "Magic: The Addiction" // Conversations with Magic players: "Humans of Magic"

  3. #8423

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Plague Sliver View Post
    Why not Thraben university?
    Side plans are not on Thraben University ^^ It would be an interesting post Medea !

  4. #8424
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Hataraxy View Post
    Hi all,
    Do you have somewhere a good side list of each match up for Death and Taxes ? (It's not on Thrabenuniversity). I'd like for example to know if you guys keep the STP post side against Delver.deck, or if RIP + Council is enough. And what do you side off ?
    Thx !
    Nothing's set in stone here, but you can take this as a pointer: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/articl...edate=2-3-2017
    Team SPOD
    <Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
    Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)

  5. #8425

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    @Hatarxy

    I do have write ups for many matches that include sideboarding tips towards the bottom. I never post a sideboarding guide since my lists often change on a weekly basis, and because changing a card or two in your list will frequently change how you evaluate a card in a given matchup.

    Against Grixis Delver, I tend to cut Revokers and Recruiters for any additional removal I have as well as some graveyard hate. RiP tends to be a Revoker on DRS that has the upside of also stopping Cabal Therapy flashback as well as delve cards. Recruiters are a touch slow against Delver; if you are resolving Recruiters and aren't way behind on board, you've probably already won. Council's Judgment is mediocre, but comes in sometimes depending on how your list and your opponent's lists line up. I'll bring in CJ if I know my opponent has things like Dread of Night or Null Rods that are must-answer cards.

  6. #8426
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    @Hatarxy

    I do have write ups for many matches that include sideboarding tips towards the bottom. I never post a sideboarding guide since my lists often change on a weekly basis, and because changing a card or two in your list will frequently change how you evaluate a card in a given matchup.

    Against Grixis Delver, I tend to cut Revokers and Recruiters for any additional removal I have as well as some graveyard hate. RiP tends to be a Revoker on DRS that has the upside of also stopping Cabal Therapy flashback as well as delve cards. Recruiters are a touch slow against Delver; if you are resolving Recruiters and aren't way behind on board, you've probably already won. Council's Judgment is mediocre, but comes in sometimes depending on how your list and your opponent's lists line up. I'll bring in CJ if I know my opponent has things like Dread of Night or Null Rods that are must-answer cards.
    Council's Judgment _definitely_ comes in. Dread of Night, Null Rod and True-Lame Nemesis have to be answered. It also doesn't hurt to have more removal and a catch-all answer as some Grixis Delvers have Grim Lavamancer, Izzet Staticaster, Umezawa's Jitte and whatnot in their SB. Having CJ compensates the lack of postboard Revokers in these situations where you're in the dark.
    Team SPOD
    <Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
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  7. #8427
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I add 5 cards: 2 Rest in Peace, 2 Council's Judgment and 1 Path to Exile / Orzhov Pontiff (sideboard's choose depending).

  8. #8428
    Bear Cub &gt; Tarmogoyf

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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Re: the last two posts: my sig applies to sideboarding too. Deciding what to take out is often the harder part.

    This guide might still be of some tiny use, but is increasingly getting out of date.

    http://cur.by/.dtside (based on running this list: http://cur.by/.dtlist)
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  9. #8429

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I am curious what people are doing to deal with the new Miracles list. It is a much better matchup for them than when they had SDT. I felt like the matchup was terrible with them running mainboard solutions for our equipment in the form of Unexpectedly Absent, which used it be the key to winning the matchup pre ban. I think it is rather obvious that the Chalice builds are going to get a couple points here with them having so many 1 drops (Swords, Ponder, BS, Portent), but as mentioned before the UA art also a solution for this.

    If people wanna discuss possible sideboard options or what axis we should be attacking them on. Having talked to one of the pilots involved in designed the deck attacking the mana early to slow down the mass cantriping and then presenting a clock before they stabilize. I'm thinking the SoWaP is gonna be helpful form the board again to get past those pesky mentor tokens and it deals a ton of them since they rely so much on CA. We do have easy cards to board out in Mono W (Revokers) and the splash builds (Magus of the Moon).

    Thanks,

  10. #8430
    Bear Cub &gt; Tarmogoyf

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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    +1 to static. Over on the topless Miracles thread a guy called his GP Vegas D&T matchups virtual byes, but I've heard from D&T pilots that they consider Miracles just business as usual. Obviously both can't be true at once. But speaking of Chalice, what about returning to maindeck Prelate and setting it on 1? Can be protected with Mom and Flickerwisp (unlike Chalice), and can be more easily bounced if we need to attempt a 1-mana hate card.
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  11. #8431

  12. #8432
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    (Bye)
    5x Sneak and Show
    How come when I play this deck I run into 5x elves?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  13. #8433

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by kirbysdl View Post
    +1 to static. Over on the topless Miracles thread a guy called his GP Vegas D&T matchups virtual byes, but I've heard from D&T pilots that they consider Miracles just business as usual. Obviously both can't be true at once. But speaking of Chalice, what about returning to maindeck Prelate and setting it on 1? Can be protected with Mom and Flickerwisp (unlike Chalice), and can be more easily bounced if we need to attempt a 1-mana hate card.
    The only reason the match-up might be better for them is because they don't have the dead weight of counterbalance (or multiple tops) anymore. But that still leaves them with the increased vulnerability to our hatred, as the loss of top makes it much more difficult manawise to find the proper answers.

    As previously, there's still no loliwin card against the archetype on our end, besides maybe cataclysm or armageddon. Just a bunch of annoying hate ursids (thalia, canonist, prelate, equipment, revoker on jace, flyers, palace jailer, planeswalkers, spirit ot labyrinth) that take them too much time and resources to answer while they're durdling cantrip into more and more cantrips.

    This is also a match-up where it shines to play fetchlands. Yes, they can make you shuffle your card away with unexpectedly absent, but that's better than allowing them to make sick predict plays. That sword of fire and ice will just go back to be SFM'd out again, while with predict it's permanently gone. You're also less likely to die to a turn 1 portent you, which has lost me more than one game already.

    In the end, I believe the match-up is more in their favor now, but at the steep cost of multiple other match-ups getting way worse because counterbalance is gone. Without top, the deck is also much harder and punishing to play and will therefore not become as prevalent as before.

  14. #8434

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    hey guys, this is my first post here :)

    lately, ive been playing this list:

    Lands: 22

    4 Ports
    4 Wasteland
    3 Karakas
    11 Plains

    Creatures: 27

    4 Thalia
    4 Stoneforge
    4 Revoker
    4 Flickerwisp
    4 Mother
    4 Serra Avenger
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Mirran Crusader

    Non Creature: 11

    4 Vial
    4 Swords
    1 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Jitte

    Sb:15

    2 Judgement
    1 Gideon, Ally
    2 rest in peace
    2 faeri macabre
    1 Path to exile
    1 Mirran Crusader
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Leonin Relic Warder
    1 Canonist
    2 Containment Priest
    1 Holy Light


    thoughts:

    manabase

    since I only run 5 three drop creatures, I think 22 lands are fine (there are variants that run 10+ three drop creatures, where 23 lands are fine, so...). I want to play as many basics as i can, since more wastelands are played and blood moon is on the rise too. I think you need the 2 white mana. Since my deck is pretty redundant, cavern is not that important. in some scenarios, cavern is great, but it has also his donwsides.

    rest of deck:

    my plan with this version is to manascrew the opponent hard on the first few turns. i play 4 revokers as mana denial card 13-16 (next to ports, wastelands, thalia), since i often name deathrite, hierarch, or mana artifacts like LED, Moxen etc. With my many strong 2 drop creatures, i want to pressure my opponent out of the game quickly. Avenger is pretty strong right now (many delvers). Its the creature of my deck which gets fow or bolted the most, because if they dont answer it, they gonna lose the game pretty quickly. its also a good answer to true-name.
    You see there are no recruiters, because often time its just too slow. there are more scenarios where i want a creature, that affects the board right away. i can see the strength of it (ex. with flickerwisp), but these scenarios doesnt show up that often. Otherwise its even not really a card advantage, since you only have a 1/1 added to the board (in cornercase scenarios, its the one creature you needed to equip, i know, but its rare). And i dont want more slow tutor creatures (4 Stoneforge) that affect the board slowly.
    Then my 2 canonist are here to improve my combo matchups game 1. its still very solid against many other decks. its a bit weaker than prelate, but its only a 2 drop, which is important. so i moved prelate to the side.

    what are your thoughts? any advice? what do you think about my sideboard?

    Greets
    Siracho

  15. #8435

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    That's a lot of slots tied up to a creature that can't come down until t4.

    That being said; expecting an uptick in DoNs, golgari charms, massacres and the like after the GP win makes anything with 2 (and espeically 3) points on the butt a lot more appealing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siracho View Post
    hey guys, this is my first post here :)

    4 Serra Avenger

    Greets
    Siracho

  16. #8436
    Bear Cub &gt; Tarmogoyf

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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by AsmodeusDM View Post
    That's a lot of slots tied up to a creature that can't come down until t4.
    I agree that -1 Avenger +1 Crusader might make sense in that list, but I think I've been annoyed by multiple Thalias (1 in play, more in hand) more often than any number of Avengers in hand. If I want to play a creature on T2, it seems like I'm often wanting to play a Thalia or Revoker for disruption, or a Stoneforge if Mom's out and I need to get aggressive, or just Port if Vial's out and I want to control tempo.

    So honest question: in a list without Cavern concerns, is running 3-4 Avengers really an issue? In what matchups would we really want a T3 Avenger (off Vial)? I can imagine it being good against a fast-flipping Delver, for example.
    Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.

  17. #8437

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by AsmodeusDM View Post
    That's a lot of slots tied up to a creature that can't come down until t4.

    That being said; expecting an uptick in DoNs, golgari charms, massacres and the like after the GP win makes anything with 2 (and espeically 3) points on the butt a lot more appealing.
    yes, but you have many creatures in this deck, which you can cast before turn 4. and as i said, in the first few turns i want to use my mana to screw my opponent anyways, while my vial is ticking up. and then, when i developed my mana, dropping multiple flickerwisps and avengers often take over the game, while my opponent hasnt much goiing, especiali with thalia and / or canonist.
    i wanted to write about DoN and massaccre and stuff, but i forgot. this is obviously a huge upside of avenger too. Avengers are neraly unbeatebale with equipments, but are also very strong without them.
    and with the mana denial plan d & t has, durdling around with recruiters and stuff is often no where you want to be. this gives the opponent time to rebuild after they made enough land drops.
    Last edited by Siracho; 06-22-2017 at 12:37 PM.

  18. #8438
    Tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today.
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Thank you so much for this link.
    Good info inside.

    In your opinion have we the right meta, now, to bring in SoLaS?

    I have some doubt about Gideon.


    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    How come when I play this deck I run into 5x elves?

    Uhm...a different epilogue I suppose..

  19. #8439
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Hi all,

    I finished 11-3-1 at GP Las Vegas for 70th position with this list:

    MAINDECK:

    4 x Mother of Runes
    4 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 x Stoneforge Mystic
    3 x Phyrexian Revoker
    2 x Serra Avenger
    4 x Flickerwisp
    2 x Recruiter of the Guard
    2 x Mirran Crusader
    1 x Sanctum Prelate

    4 x Aether Vial
    4 x Swords to Plowshares
    1 x Batterskull
    1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 x Umezawa's Jitte

    4 x Wasteland
    4 x Rishadan Port
    10 x Plains
    3 x Karakas
    2 x Cavern of Souls

    SIDEBOARD:

    2 x Path to Exile
    2 x Council's Judgment
    1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    2 x Palace Jailer
    1 x Sanctum Prelate
    2 x Containment Priest
    3 x Ethersworn Canonist
    2 x Rest in Peace

    Matchups were as follows:

    R1 -> BG Turbo Depths 2-1
    R2 -> Mono-Red Sneak 2-0
    R3 -> BG Midrange Depths 2-1
    R4 -> UB Death's Shadow (Ben Lundquist) 1-2
    R5 -> Burn 2-0
    R6 -> 4C Control (Kevin King) 2-1
    R7 -> 4C Loam (Martin Juza) 1-2
    R8 -> Death & Taxes 2-1
    R9 -> RG Lands 1-1-1
    R10 -> BUG Delver 2-0
    R11 -> UW Stoneblade 2-0
    R12 -> Bant DeathBlade 2-0
    R13 -> Merfolks 2-0
    R14 -> UWR Stoneblade 2-0
    R15 -> 4C Control (Oliver Tiu) 0-2

    Day 2 was really hard full of Stoneblade decks but I managed to win them playing some great matches. Last round fighting for top32 I mulliganed 3 times and ended losing easily, but the deck was great all the weekend and I'd run the same 75. The week before the GP I doubted whether to play this list or something close to the last list of Thomas Enevoldsen. I'm not an Ancient Tomb fan and I opted for what I knew the most and was more comfortable with.
    In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except DEATH & TAXES

  20. #8440

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Koke_MTG View Post
    Day 2 was really hard full of Stoneblade decks but I managed to win them playing some great matches. Last round fighting for top32 I mulliganed 3 times and ended losing easily, but the deck was great all the weekend and I'd run the same 75. The week before the GP I doubted whether to play this list or something close to the last list of Thomas Enevoldsen. I'm not an Ancient Tomb fan and I opted for what I knew the most and was more comfortable with.
    Great performance! I went 6-3 (2 byes from GPT and 1 win from no show). I had a hard time against Stoneblade (Esper and Bant Deathblade). I'm clueless as to what to do in the matchup and wanted to ask for advice. @Koke_MTG What was your strategy and overall gameplan? How did you win? My esper opponent had all the removal... and the Bant Opponent got TNN on the field quickly.

    Also, I have questions for your sideboard. What matches did you bring 2nd prelate for?, and when did you board in the 2x Palace Jailer? Thanks!

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