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Thread: Paul Wall Aggro

  1. #81

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass House View Post
    I think that now with High Alert and Arcades, the Strategist this deck could shift to Bant and delve further into Wall tribal. Adding blue gives it access to cantrip goodness, counters and the mighty Wall of Denial.
    This might work better in modern. In legacy at 4 mana I want to play natural order and win...not windmill slam a 3/5 and pass the turn. But maybe Iím wrong?
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  2. #82

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    This might work better in modern. In legacy at 4 mana I want to play natural order and win...not windmill slam a 3/5 and pass the turn. But maybe Iím wrong?
    You're not wrong, I definitely think that it would be better in Modern. But if you "want to play natural order and win" wouldn't it still be beneficial to add blue and cantrips to increase the consistency of the combo?

  3. #83

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass House View Post
    But if you "want to play natural order and win" wouldn't it still be beneficial to add blue and cantrips to increase the consistency of the combo?
    Shhh...
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  4. #84

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    Shhh...

  5. #85

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Tetsuko Umezawa is a strong consideration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  6. #86

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Arboreal grazer seems quite strong: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/w...rboreal-grazer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  7. #87
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    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    LOL Wall Aggro


    //Walls: 24
    4 Shield Sphere
    4 Wall of Tanglecord
    4 Wall of Blossoms
    4 Overgrown Battlement
    4 Sylvan Caryatid
    4 Wall of Denial

    //Engine: 8
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Arcades, the Strategist

    //Prison: 8
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Ensnaring Bridge

    //Mana: 20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Windswept Heath
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Savannah
    1 Tundra
    1 Forest


    Maybe Chalice/Sol Lands/Bridge can slow down the game enough to make Arcades relevant.

    Card choices:
    Shield Sphere - 0cc 6/6, easy draws from Arcades
    Tanglecord - 6/6 for 2, castable off Tomb, blocks Delver/Pteramander for days
    Blossoms - cantrips
    Battlement - easy mana, keeps hand empty for Bridge, winsmore to chain walls after Arcades,
    Caryatid - mana fixing, hexproof
    Denial - 8/8 flying shroud for 3 seems good

    Arcades - draw engine, enables walls, wins games
    GSZ - finds Arcades, important walls, or SB cards

    Chalice - stops opponent from playing Legacy (casting 1-2cc spells)
    Bridge - stops opponent from playing Limited (in case he decides to turn things sideways), works well with 0-power army

    Other walls to consider:
    Jungle Barrier - bigger cantrip, 1 copy at most
    Axebane Guardian - ramp and color fixing, but slow
    Wall of Junk - castable off Ancient Tomb, fat, winsmore by bouncing self to hand to draw with Arcades FTkeks
    Tree of Redemption - 1 of SB GSZ target against burn and aggro
    Assault Formation - green, 2cc (works with Chalice), cheap wall enabler, mana sink with Overgrown Battlement

    I think both Chalice and Bridge are really strong here. They disrupt faster Legacy strategies and slow down the game to the point where durdly walls and Arcades might get there.

    That's a green-artifact based build. Another option is UW control with Arcades and High Alert.


    //Engine: 7
    4 High Alert
    3 Arcades, the Strategist

    //Prison: 7
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Ensnaring Bridge

    //Walls: 20
    4 Shield Sphere
    4 Fog Bank
    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Wall of Frost
    4 Wall of Denial

    //Spells: 4
    4 Force of Will

    //Mana: 22
    4 Chrome Mox
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Tundra
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Savannah
    1 Island
    1 Plains


    Card choices:
    Shield Sphere - 0cc 6/6
    Fog Bank - blocks things
    Omens - cantrip
    Frost - blocks Angler, Goyf and dorks for days
    Denial - TNN for wall decks
    High Alert / Arcades - enablers
    Chalice / Bridge - see above
    Force - stops broken things, protects Bridge/Arcades, high blue count
    Mox - smoother way to reach 1WU costs than Sol Lands

  8. #88

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    LOL Wall Aggro


    //Walls: 24
    4 Shield Sphere
    4 Wall of Tanglecord
    4 Wall of Blossoms
    4 Overgrown Battlement
    4 Sylvan Caryatid
    4 Wall of Denial

    //Engine: 8
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Arcades, the Strategist

    //Prison: 8
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Ensnaring Bridge

    //Mana: 20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Windswept Heath
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Savannah
    1 Tundra
    1 Forest


    Maybe Chalice/Sol Lands/Bridge can slow down the game enough to make Arcades relevant.

    Card choices:
    Shield Sphere - 0cc 6/6, easy draws from Arcades
    Tanglecord - 6/6 for 2, castable off Tomb, blocks Delver/Pteramander for days
    Blossoms - cantrips
    Battlement - easy mana, keeps hand empty for Bridge, winsmore to chain walls after Arcades,
    Caryatid - mana fixing, hexproof
    Denial - 8/8 flying shroud for 3 seems good

    Arcades - draw engine, enables walls, wins games
    GSZ - finds Arcades, important walls, or SB cards

    Chalice - stops opponent from playing Legacy (casting 1-2cc spells)
    Bridge - stops opponent from playing Limited (in case he decides to turn things sideways), works well with 0-power army

    Other walls to consider:
    Jungle Barrier - bigger cantrip, 1 copy at most
    Axebane Guardian - ramp and color fixing, but slow
    Wall of Junk - castable off Ancient Tomb, fat, winsmore by bouncing self to hand to draw with Arcades FTkeks
    Tree of Redemption - 1 of SB GSZ target against burn and aggro
    Assault Formation - green, 2cc (works with Chalice), cheap wall enabler, mana sink with Overgrown Battlement

    I think both Chalice and Bridge are really strong here. They disrupt faster Legacy strategies and slow down the game to the point where durdly walls and Arcades might get there.

    That's a green-artifact based build. Another option is UW control with Arcades and High Alert.


    //Engine: 7
    4 High Alert
    3 Arcades, the Strategist

    //Prison: 7
    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Ensnaring Bridge

    //Walls: 20
    4 Shield Sphere
    4 Fog Bank
    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Wall of Frost
    4 Wall of Denial

    //Spells: 4
    4 Force of Will

    //Mana: 22
    4 Chrome Mox
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Tundra
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Savannah
    1 Island
    1 Plains


    Card choices:
    Shield Sphere - 0cc 6/6
    Fog Bank - blocks things
    Omens - cantrip
    Frost - blocks Angler, Goyf and dorks for days
    Denial - TNN for wall decks
    High Alert / Arcades - enablers
    Chalice / Bridge - see above
    Force - stops broken things, protects Bridge/Arcades, high blue count
    Mox - smoother way to reach 1WU costs than Sol Lands
    Funny yes! I started building a wall aggro (defender aggro to be more accurate) when arcades was printed. I only discovered this thread now... whatís even more funny is that I completely missed high alert and built around arcades and assault formation. Iíll get back with more details and lists at a later time. For now l just wanted to comment on bridge, which i found to be redundant most of the time and moved it to the board. you have a shit load of walls and one doesnít really need bridge in fair matchups. Also i like to run both draw walls as they are the best walls out there. My initial legacy plan for defenders was an elves package as well (murdering kitchen tables with behemoth and walls is funny:) but high alert completely changes things. I have to rebrew...

  9. #89

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by MechTactical View Post
    Funny yes! I started building a wall aggro (defender aggro to be more accurate) when arcades was printed. I only discovered this thread now... whatís even more funny is that I completely missed high alert and built around arcades and assault formation. Iíll get back with more details and lists at a later time. For now l just wanted to comment on bridge, which i found to be redundant most of the time and moved it to the board. you have a shit load of walls and one doesnít really need bridge in fair matchups. Also i like to run both draw walls as they are the best walls out there. My initial legacy plan for defenders was an elves package as well (murdering kitchen tables with behemoth and walls is funny:) but high alert completely changes things. I have to rebrew...
    Post your list when you've got it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  10. #90
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    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    I think both these walls are worth consideration: wall of runes and wall of shards

    With Omens and Runes you have a reasonable card draw/manipulation package that helps find your enablers and act as win cons.
    The Upkeep on Shards really doesnít matter too much. If you are swinging with it, then itís irrelevant and if you need it to block itís still doing work, and this style of deck can do large amounts of damage.

    Iím going to throw something like this together and jam it at an FNM or something.

    4 Shield Sphere
    4 Wall of Runes
    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Wall of Shards
    3 Wall of Denial

    4 Assault Formation
    4 High Alert
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    2 Swords to plowshares
    2 Spell Pierce

    1 Savanah
    1 Tropical island
    3 Tundra
    2 Island
    1 Plains

    10 Fetches

    I donít really like the idea of Ensnaring Bridge main deck, you should have more than enough defence or offence with your creatures for most match ups. I think it would be great in the board but I donít think it does enough vs a lot of the top tier.

    Is this a bad aggro control deck? Absolutely, but it can deal a lot of damage quickly and play defence well. I feel like it probably needs more interaction probably some more counters, just not sure where to fit them in.
    Last edited by ReAnimator; 04-25-2019 at 02:19 PM.

  11. #91

  12. #92
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    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass House View Post
    Worth noting that WAR gave us Huatli, the Sun's Heart. Maybe that opens up the possibility of a mono green build?
    She doesn't let your walls attack though, so she's really just a defensive and life gain card. :(

  13. #93
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    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass House View Post
    Worth noting that WAR gave us Huatli, the Sun's Heart. Maybe that opens up the possibility of a mono green build?
    7 Loyalty for 2G and the Doran ability? Seems good. Fits into a Chalice stompy shell (needs more Choke).

    The only drawback is it doesn't let walls attack. Without High Alert or Arcades, the manabase is easier but it's also much harder to ever attack (need to activate Assault Formation for every creature).

    Phyrexian Walker and Ornithopter may just not be good enough. They're just about the only things that can attack, but vanilla 3/3 and 2/2 flying aren't enough of a win condition, and they don't pitch to Natural Order or fuel Battlements.

    What if you add GSZ too and a singleton Arcades to enable an alpha strike?


    //Permanents: 10
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Assault Formation
    2 Huatli, the Sun's Heart

    //Creatures: 23
    4 Shield Sphere
    4 Wall of Tanglecord
    4 Wall of Blossoms
    4 Overgrown Battlement
    4 Axebane Guardian
    1 Arcades, the Strategist
    1 Carnage Tyrant
    1 Progenitus

    //Spells: 7
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Natural Order

    //Lands: 20
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    10 Forest
    1 Gaea's Cradle
    2 Dryad Arbor

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Choke
    3 Thorn of the Amethyst
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Tree of Redemption
    1 Hornet Queen
    1 Terastodon


    Edit: Huatli might just be worse than running Wall of Mulch or Wall of Ice or maindeck Chokes...

  14. #94
    Victory Dance ftw?
    Mirrislegend's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    The ideal name for this deck is The Best Offense
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    <Dallieza> your mom uses the stack
    <System> Player Lost
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape
    Every time someone drops a Chalice against me I think of the Family Guy episode where the guy in jail stabs himself with the knife to see how it feels and then he says, "My God! Is this what I've been doing to people? I belong in here!"
    Referring to the art on Stasis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinder View Post
    Well, uh...the mime, you see, is....um...

    God, is that furry bondage?

  15. #95

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by ReAnimator View Post
    She doesn't let your walls attack though, so she's really just a defensive and life gain card. :(
    Yes, unfortunately. You would have to keep in the vein of previous kinda's lists with Phyrexian Walkers and Ornithopters. I just couldn't resist the idea of a mono colored deck, especially mono green. There are few of those in legacy .
    But as far as actual Wall Tribal is concerned, I think the lists that you and FTW posted are on the right track.

    PS: Heads up that Slaughter the Strong is a one-sided quasi board wipe in a Wall deck. Might end up being cute and nothing more, but hey, we're already discussing Wall Tribal anyway.

  16. #96
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    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass House View Post
    Yes, unfortunately. You would have to keep in the vein of previous kinda's lists with Phyrexian Walkers and Ornithopters.
    The question is if vanilla 3/3s and 2/2s count as a "win condition". Most decks can beat those easily.

    Huatli might be better in some kind of Treefolk Stompy list with Chalice of the Void, Thorn of Amethyst, Heartwood Storyteller, Doran, the Siege Tower, Tilling Treefolk+Wasteland, Unstoppable Ash, Timber Protector, Leaf-Crowned Elder, and some other big butt guys.



    PS: Heads up that Slaughter the Strong is a one-sided quasi board wipe in a Wall deck. Might end up being cute and nothing more, but hey, we're already discussing Wall Tribal anyway.
    Slaughter still leaves the opponent with board states like this:
    Flipped Delver + 1/1 Pteramander
    Unflipped Delver + TNN
    TNN + Stoneforge Mystic
    Mom + Flickerwisp + Monarch token + Jitte
    2 Baleful Strix + Snapcaster
    Goblin Rabblemaster + 2 tokens
    Monastery Mentor + 2 tokens
    Sneak Attack + win in hand

    If creatures are an issue, Ensnaring Bridge is probably just better.

    Even Thalia, Heretic Cathar/Authority of Consuls + Meekstone is probably better than Slaughter.

  17. #97

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    @glass house and ftw, the reason to run ornithopter/phyrexian walker imo is protean hulk and gaea's cradle. I don't have cradles but using protean hulk to dump up to 15 creatures including doran/teeg/safekeeper onto the field was very strong. I'm looking forward to running this again soon, not sure the build yet but it will include protean hulk . Plus cradle if i can borrow them...
    Last edited by kinda; 04-25-2019 at 09:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  18. #98

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    Quote Originally Posted by ReAnimator View Post
    I think both these walls are worth consideration: wall of runes and wall of shards

    With Omens and Runes you have a reasonable card draw/manipulation package that helps find your enablers and act as win cons.
    The Upkeep on Shards really doesnít matter too much. If you are swinging with it, then itís irrelevant and if you need it to block itís still doing work, and this style of deck can do large amounts of damage.

    Iím going to throw something like this together and jam it at an FNM or something.

    4 Shield Sphere
    4 Wall of Runes
    4 Wall of Omens
    4 Wall of Shards
    3 Wall of Denial

    4 Assault Formation
    4 High Alert
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    2 Swords to plowshares
    2 Spell Pierce

    1 Savanah
    1 Tropical island
    3 Tundra
    2 Island
    1 Plains

    10 Fetches

    I donít really like the idea of Ensnaring Bridge main deck, you should have more than enough defence or offence with your creatures for most match ups. I think it would be great in the board but I donít think it does enough vs a lot of the top tier.

    Is this a bad aggro control deck? Absolutely, but it can deal a lot of damage quickly and play defence well. I feel like it probably needs more interaction probably some more counters, just not sure where to fit them in.
    Note that Wall of Denial doesn't play well with assault formation. I also didn't like Wall of Shards in my testing. It often just sat on the board giving huge life gain to the opponent.
    I'll try wall of runes in the bluish build. There are so few defenders at one CMC that do anything, except for Perimeter Captain.
    What do you guys think about Beast Within as removal?

    I think that we all agree that there are three ways to build legacy defenders:
    1. blue oriented builds with a core of high alert, Arcades, the Strategist and Wall of Denial.
    2. The alternative is to go down the "elves" package with natural order and GSZ
    3. moreover, a stompy list with chalice and stuff

    FTW is mixing 2 and three but okay
    what is the core of each one of those variations?

    Some quick thoughts:
    In the UWx control shell, one could also consider running drift phantasms as a toolbox engine for fetching bridge beast within, and the rest of the 3cmc we are running. Though in this case, some acceleration is paramount as this is very slow

    I think that with GSZ we need the basic toolbox package of gaddock and pridemage. I canít see us surviving the legacy battlefield on walls alone. Furthermore, birds or hierarch can also be considered in this build

    Donít know anything about stompy, never played stompy deck, donít own the cards and I don't particularly appreciate playing prison decks in generalÖ

    Regarding the mana base, I think a 4x cavern is an auto-include for all three variations?

    Iíll try to get back with a list next time around

  19. #99

    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    okay so here is the Blue-ish wall aggro im testing. i want to run the best walls and those are in my oppinion omens, blossom, denial. I also favore high alert to assault formation because its faster and enables wall of denial.
    FoW could be in the board with main deck beast within depending on the meta. not sure about the leylines in the board. all in all, i dont know if i got the numbers right but i think this is the "core" i like for the control variant of the deck. any suggestions?

    Land (21)
    4x Cavern of Souls
    4x Flooded Strand
    1x Forest
    2x Island
    1x Karakas
    2x Misty Rainforest
    1x Plains
    1x Savannah
    1x Tropical Island
    2x Tundra
    2x Windswept Heath

    Creature (19)
    4x Arcades, the Strategist
    4x Wall of Blossoms
    4x Wall of Denial
    4x Wall of Omens
    3x Wall of Runes

    Instant (10)
    4x Brainstorm
    3x Force of Will
    3x Swords to Plowshares

    Sorcery (3)
    3x Ponder

    Artifact (3)
    3x Chrome Mox

    Enchantment (4)
    4x High Alert

    Sideboard (15)
    2x Beast Within
    1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
    1x Ensnaring Bridge
    3x Flusterstorm
    1x Krosan Grip
    3x Leyline of Sanctity
    1x Rest in Peace
    3x Surgical Extraction

  20. #100
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    Re: Paul Wall Aggro

    For these more defensive and control type shells i wonder if tireless tribe might be valuable just to threaten quick kills vs combo and the less interactive decks where your walls don't have much value.

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