In regard for the debate on tutors, how do you guys feel about Spoils of the Vault? I really think it might be the best possible option, what do you guys think?
I used to run a Rolling Stones deck, and Doran didn't even exist. I played Cinder Wall, Wall of Razors, and Sunweb, among other things. Some other good options are Vine Trellis, Wall of Roots, Wall of Mulch, and Tinder Wall. I like walls that play double duty as mana producers.
Oh, and Spoils is terrible. Don't play it. This isn't balls-to-the-walls combo. At best, it's control/combo.
EDIT: Oh, and Treefolk Harbinger is good.
I think the best possible tutor then is card draw. How do you guys feel about Night's Whisper?
Hey, I just remembered that Rolling Stones #2 exists and is actually not terrible:
Wakestone Gargoyle
Creature - Gargoyle (Dissension rare)
Defender
Flying
: Creatures you control with defender can attack this turn as though they didn’t have defender.
3/4
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
Nice find Nihil. That can work really well in conjuction with Ancient Tomb and such. It also provides an additional body that can attack without Rolling Stones. I can see it as a 2-3 of in the deck.
P.S. - how do you guys feel about Cruel Tutor? It works well with Ancient Tomb and makes your cards Thoughtseize/Duress proof. It's probably the closest thing to Vampiric Tutor this format has to offer. What do you guys think?
Last edited by Cavius The Great; 09-28-2007 at 12:02 PM.
What about Vine Trelis a 4/4 for 2 and produces green? Good Imo
For card draw,what about wall of mulch. It makes most of your creature base cantrip
Just throwing some ideas:
- Unearth - Reanimates every creature in the deck, and cycles;
- Avoid Fate - counters topdecked StPs;
- Dense Foliage - Stops StP.
Off the top of my head, that's it.
Here is a variation of paul wall aggro but I figured I didn't need to start a new thread on it due to it's similiarities. The main difference with this deck is that it's based upon high toughness efficient creatures instead of relying on walls and rolling stones to win. Here's the list, I call it "Leech Tower" because of some new tech that I found called Alabaster Leech.
Leech Tower.DEC
Spells:38
4 Alabaster Leech
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Doran, The Seige Tower
4 Ohran Viper
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn To Tourach
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands:22
4 Forbidden Watchtower
4 Scrubland
4 Savannah
4 Bayou
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:15
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Rule of Law
4 Engineered Explosives
3 Krosan Grip
To sum up the deck, here are a few clarifications.
Alabaster Leech - a 3/3 for one white mana with Doran in play. Better than Phyrexian Walker since it can not only block but can kill first turn Lackeys. I realize it makes StPs WW and Doran GBWW but to me it's really worth it since it's so cost efficient. For a fun way of looking at it, the first one I play is a Rogue Elephant, the second one I play is a Watchwolf and the third one I play is a Trained Armadon.
Forbidden Watchtower - a 5/5 manland for the activated cost of 1W with Doran in play.
Birds of Paradise - a 1/1 flyer with Doran in play.
Ohran Viper - a 3/3 for 1GG with Doran in play.
And the rest of the deck is self explanatory. I just felt like having a little fun with the creature power/toughness ratios.
For some quick facts. I chose to run Thoughtseize over Duress. I chose to run Hymns over Duress as well since it's a very underrated card right now and is much more devastasting that a feeble Duress.
I chose my creature destruction suit totally to 8. 4 Swords to Plowshares to get rid of fatties and 4 Diabolic Edict to get rid of anything an StP can't deal with.
Umezawa's Jitte is a no brainer as well and makes a mere Alabaster Leech and Birds of Paradise (with Doran) become formidable threats.
Props to the people that suggested running high toughness creatures instead of walls. I think it was Phantom that originally suggested that. Without him, this list wouldn't exist.
Let me know what you guys think of the list. Peace.
I'd replace Watchtowers with Villages I think. I'd rather have a 3/3 Trampler all the time than a 5/5 some of the time.
I've found that relying on Doran or making him special in any other way than being a 5/5 for 3cc is generally a mistake. I run Goyf/Viper/BoP because they are good cards. The fact that they get a bonus with Doran out is just that, a bonus. I've tried the deck with Wall of Roots and Harbingers and found them to be subpar compared to just running better creatures as a whole. However, Harbinger (in this format) being able fetch you a dual could be a solid choice.
I'm running this deck in Standard and it's been doing great for me. I can only imagine the power it could acheive using the Legacy card pool. I'd love to make a Legacy version, but it cost me $300 for the T2 version alone. Throw in 12 Duels and Fetches, forget about it.
I actually though that trying Doran in LEgacy would be laughable so I dismissed it altogether. Nice to see others making an attempt at it!
In painting, you have unlimited power. You have the ability to move mountains. You can bend rivers.
Don't forget about Alabaster Leech. That's the main tech I use to smash face with. Woodland Druid is good as well.
Having a answer to first turn Lacky would be the most valid point for Leech, I'll agree with you there, but you already have Thoughtseize on the play and StP on the draw. Treefolk Harbinger would be a better answer to that impending problem and not hurt you down the line when you are trying to get WW and GG (Viper) by turn 2/3.
Too many times while testing my first Doran build with a bunch of 0/X creatures I ended up attacking for 12+ then having Doran shot down durring declare blockers and my opponent saying "I'll take zero". Meanwhile I left the board open and now my BoP are unable to tap for mana. Granted, I overextended myself, but Doran becomes so fragile you feel you need to accelerate your game while you have the opportunity. I later came to the conclusion that going a more Controlish route was the better choice and treating Doran as nothing more than a huge beat stick with zero drawback was the way to go.
Just my opinion. That opinion is also based off Type 2 results so they probably mean very little here. I think my reasoning still pertains, but it my not be a valid in Legacy.
Reguardless, you sum it up nicely here:
Nothing wrong with that.just felt like having a little fun with the creature power/toughness ratios
In painting, you have unlimited power. You have the ability to move mountains. You can bend rivers.
The cool thing about Leech Tower is that all of the creatures (besides the BoPs) have a power of atleast one, so losing Doran isn't always the end of the world. Another cool thing about Legacy is that you always have cards like Karakas if you ever felt the need to run additional protection for Doran. Thanx for the feedback though, I'm glad to see someone besides myself interested in the list.
Has anyone considered Sunscape Familiar for this deck? Yes his behind is smaller than the average wall, but he makes those green spells much cheaper. Wouldn't it be fun to cast WoR and WoB for each?
hey, the other day, I was messing around on MWS. I dont remember what I was playing, but the other guy had two daru spiritualists with a lightning greaves. (infinite toughness) the next turn he played Doran and swung in FTW. I dont know if that combo really fits in this deck, but its not a bad win option.
Sunscape Familiar's effect is a single one, so it only applies once. With it in play, Jungle Barrier would still cost 1UG.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
I guess I'm better off playing Carven Caryatid. Sunscape Familiar effectively makes it a 2/5 or 5/5 cantrip critter for GG. Not too shabby IMO especially in a deck that's already running Wall of Blossoms and Wall of Roots.
EDIT: Here's a new list that I just thought of. It incorporates Sunscape Familiar.
Spells:48
4 Doran, The Seige Tower
4 Rolling Stones
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Utopia Tree
4 Wall of Blossoms
4 Wall of Roots
4 Sunscape Familiar
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shield Sphere
4 Land Grant
4 Chrome Mox
4 Cabal Therapy
Lands:12
4 Bayou
4 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Windswept Heath
Sideboard:15
3 Karakas
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Swords to Plowshares
The cool thing about this list is that it runs Tarmogoyf as a backup plan as well as non-wall critters like Utopia Tree and Birds of Paradise so that I can still smash face without having Rolling Stones. I have 16 spells that are affected by Sunscape Familiar. Tarmogoyf, Utopia Tree, Wall of Blossoms and Wall of Roots, all cost one G mana with a Familiar in play. How cool is that? I'm also trying to fit carven caryatid into the list but I'm not sure what to cut. Let me know what you guys think of the new list. Peace.
Last edited by Cavius The Great; 11-18-2007 at 01:53 PM.
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