First, my apologies for taking so long to get this up. I didn’t want to post here until the decklist was pretty much finalized (except, of course, the SB), and the matchups much more thoroughly tested. While I will continue testing matchups (especially with different SB configurations and choices), I feel that I’ve provided a strong enough framework to share with you all, now. Some choices will no doubt be changed, some sideboarding techniques refined, but all that is fleshing out that we can do together. It’s time for me to share the refined decklist. If necessary, I'll add further detail to the "How to play the deck" section.
Deck History: This is an evolved version of what I used to think of as BUG Threshold. It started as a direct port to black, with Tombstalker for a finisher and Tarmogoyf for beatz (and Deed for versatility). Unfortunately, the deck felt significantly weaker than its other variants due to the loss of Meddling Mage, Worship, and decent spot-removal.
Clearly, then, the deck needed something more to make it viable—I started experimenting with elements from Gro-a-Tog (‘Tog, Genesis, Wonder) and dredge-based decks, and found that Wild Mongrel could be used to greatly increase consistency. From there, it was a small step to include Intuition and a small base of tutorable utility tools. There’s been some tinkering since, and what I present to you today is a base list that’s been largely finalized, although there are still a few question marks.
First phase.
Second phase.
Third Phase.
(FYI, this is the deck’s fourth distinct incarnation)
Now, a decklist:
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Wasteland
2 Lonely Sandbar
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Windswept Heath
3 Polluted Delta
4 Serum Visions
4 Brainstorm
3 Intuition
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Life from the Loam
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Mongrel
1 Psychatog
1 Genesis
1 Wonder
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Tombstalker
1 Gigapede
Sideboard:
4 Stifle
3 Sandstorm
3 Crime//punishment
3 Pithing Needle
1 Tombstalker
1 Savannah
Playing the deck--basics:
Basically, you want an opening hand with at least two lands and a creature (preferably Mongrel or Tarmogoyf), or at least some kind of card-drawing. You can keep one-land hands with a lot of draw, but I just don’t trust that on MWS or Apprentice. In real life, maybe. Generally, you want to keep a fairly aggressive strategy early on (as much as your hand will allow) and then switch to a more controlling position when necessary to end the game with a flying alpha strike. Most games will play out as variations on this theme; the important thing is to remember to switch gears; if you don’t, you run the risk of being out-aggroed or out-controlled.
Why play this over other Threshold or ‘Tog variants? As always, I’ll be honest about my biases, but I believe that this deck is more resilient than typical Threshold, ‘Tog, or non-Ichorid Dredge builds, and the reason for this lies in the combination of strategies. TarmoTog begins the game aggressively, much like Threshold (except perhaps a little more aggressive—you want those extra points of damage, and you don’t need to wait for them very long). It has more (and bigger) creatures, however, and thanks to Genesis it can recur them when it needs to (thus effectively negating most removal). When the aggro strategy starts to wind down, you can easily switch into ‘Tog mode and swing for a bazillion (ish) with a flying Psychatog (or just cinch the deal with Tombstalker). Also, the dependence on the graveyard is significantly less than in most Threshold or ‘Tog decks for a few reasons:
1.) By and large, your creatures don’t suck without a graveyard (at least, not as much).
2.) Because you have both a cantrip engine and a dredge engine, recovering from temporary graveyard hate is much easier (you’ve also got Deed and Punishment for Leylines and Planar Void, although obviously it would be better not to depend on these).
3.) The deck packs far more aggression than ‘Tog typically does, and so doesn’t rely on a huge swing with ‘Tog—the ‘Tog swing is just one option among many (that are often equal).
As far as more traditional Psychatog builds are concerned, my problem with them has usually been that they aren’t quite aggressive enough (at least, not for my taste—I don’t feel comfortable running 6-8 creatures in a format rife with removal); what I like even less is the reliance on a single massive swing (eggs, basket, etc.). Granted, I’m an aggro kind of guy--on the other hand, StP (which any Legacy deck with at least a white splash—and there are a lot--is bound to run) really sucks when you only run two or three real threats. This deck has a further advantage in that Pithing Needle is not very effective as a hate card, since the deck does not depend on any of the valid targets to an inordinate degree (Psychatog, Mongrel, Jitte, or Deed) and can side them out.
Sure, Psychatog decks have a scary number of counterspells—but these cards are reactive, and leave the deck largely defenceless if and when something punches through. While TarmoTog retains a minimum of counter-power, it relies more on Deed and Punishment to clear the way for lethal attacks/whatever. It’s also obviously much more aggressive (especially initially) than ‘Tog decks are and therein, I think, lies its greatest strength: TarmoTog’s creatures can all win the game on their own (i.e. without the “finishers”). You don’t need Psychatog or Mystic Enforcer (in this case, Tombstalker) to win the game—you can punch through with Mongrels/’Goyfs/whatever. Indeed, I’ve found that a number of games are resolved without a finisher (‘Tog or ‘Stalker) ever touching the table. In large part, of course, this is due to the fact that Tarmogoyf is essentially a finisher for IG.
So… yes, I’m biased toward my creation. On the other hand, I think that it embodies the best of both worlds (Threshold and Tog), and I feel that the result is well worth noting. The deck’s composition gives it strong options in role assignment, and indeed allows it to switch roles at pretty much any point in a game—you can be aggro when you need to be, and you can be more controlling when that’s what’s required, but the best thing (in my opinion) about the deck is its ability to apply tremendous early pressure and then simply sit back and turtle through the opponent’s riposte until a kill can be set up.
Why not BUG Threshold? Like I said earlier, this deck originated as a Black-based Threshold port. I found that it lost too much, however, and that its gains eventually compromised its aggression (ex. Deed is counterproductive with Tarmogoyf and Nimble Mongoose). Losing Meddling Mage is also a huge blow. I just didn’t feel comfortable with the roles that the replacements were fulfilling (ex. Ghastly Demise for Swords to Plowshares). This deck functions in largely the same way as BUG Threshold, but its dependencies are reduced and the synergies have been increased, and the net result is, I think, a deck that is simply better. The most significant loss is that of Nimble Mongoose, but Gigapede now plays a similar role. I certainly wouldn’t mind a few Mongeese, but that’s another story.
How it works: Well, this part is pretty straightforward, especially for people who are familiar with Psychatog and Threshold. Open with a cantrip, follow up with a creature (hopefully Mongrel or Tarmogoyf), and continue to cantrip/cast creatures at your leisure while you beat face. Once your creatures start having a harder time getting through, switch into your control elements; that is, dig for Genesis/Wonder/Deed/Tombstalker and counter what you can’t answer. Generally, your hardest matchups are against combo (because, initially, you haven’t got much), but you can fight through. Don’t hesitate to shift gears (from aggro to control, or whatever) to keep your opponent off-balance long enough to kill him. The longer the game drags on against combo, the better your chances—although, to be fair, that goes for most decks.
The deck’s initial games are mostly favourable, since few decks run hate in the main deck. The biggest problem the deck faces is splash hate, since graveyard hate and Pithing Needle all work against it. I’ve tried to minimize this kind of hate’s effect on the deck (by giving it a quick graveyard recovery system and a certain independence from the grave, as well as by giving it alternative finishers), and these measures are certainly successful—nonetheless, the problem remains. That means that your second and third games will be harder, but I think that the deck has enough initial resilience that clever sideboarding (and in-game gear-shifting) will prove to be enough of a defense. In testing, this has certainly been the case. In fact, the only piece of hate that should really worry you is Leyline of the Void, and it’s become much rarer now that Flash is gone.
Single Card Discussion:
Genesis - Single-handedly negates most removal, thus allowing you to make aggressive openings (trading with whatever your removal can’t touch, etc.). Genesis-based recursion also makes it so that you’re running more creatures than you really are, thus making Jitte all the more effective.
Wonder - As in more traditional Psychatog builds, Wonder is here to prevent stalemates and to allow for lethal attacks.
Tombstalker - Often questioned. Usually, the complaint is that he eats the graveyard. What most of his detractors fail to realise, however, is that TarmoTog’s graveyard is a resource, unlike Threshold, where it’s a necessity (even a crutch). Ghastly Demise can suffer under Tombstalker, but by the time you cast this bugger you should have used most—or you should have the ability to cantrip/dredge into a graveyard. Tarmogoyf doesn’t much care because he feeds on your opponent’s graveyard as well (in fact, Tarmogoyf is the key to winning against Fish decks with Leyline of the Void, since he’ll still be bigger than their stuff). Your dredge engines are there for two reasons: to feed Tombstalker and Psychatog, and to dominate the late game through recursion. You should, of course, try to keep at least a single dredger in there if you can)—in any case, you can recover your grave quickly enough. He’s a healthy alternative finisher (rather than Psychatog), since he flies without Wonder. Ultimately, when you play Tombstalker, you’re playing him to win—at that point, what’s in the grave is less relevant (either because there’s more than enough in there, or because you just need a fattie with evasion).
Tarmogoyf - Better than Werebear in every way, reduces dependence on my own graveyard; probably the single most important card in the deck. ‘Nuff said.
Gigapede – Quality beatstick that can’t be hit with targeted removal (like Swords to Plowshares!). Has the added advantage of recurring without Genesis, and acting as a discard outlet. Has proven invaluable, although Trample/more toughness would be nice. To be honest, Gigapede is probably the single most important addition to the current version of the deck—he’s just been amazing. Most of the time, when you cast Intuition you’ll want to grab Gigapede, Genesis/Wonder, and something else. If the wrong card gets returned, you can just Gigapede it away, even without a Mongrel or Psychatog. Otherwise, you’ve got a bloody scary insect on the way.
Psychatog - A secondary or even tertiary strategy option. If the smaller ones can’t quite punch through, use Psychatog to crush the defences. Also acts as a fifth Mongrel. How useful is it really? I often find myself using Tombstalker in its stead, but I think that, if nothing else, it’s important as Mongrel #5. Definitely a removal magnet, but very useful nonetheless. Sometimes I think of cutting it, but I’ve always decided against it; the raw power and the utility are simply to significant to ignore.
Ghastly Demise - The weakest slot in the deck, since it can’t target black creatures and is also dependent on your graveyard. Vendetta is the only other real in-colour option, but I dislike the life loss (since Demise is best used against fatties). Smother would work, but the extra mana requirement is a significant hindrance, plus it can’t get rid of anything particularly large and threatening (weenies are easily dealt with, what with your ginormous creatures and all).
Life from the Loam – Helps you skirt LD strategies, feeds the grave (acting as a draw engine even without Lonely Sandbar), recurs Wasteland, and pumps Mongrel and Psychatog.
Pernicious Deed - Too important not to play. Deed is both a wrath-effect and more pinpointed removal, and clearing the board is always good—especially since you can just use Genesis to put the fat back on the table. Deed is the bane of Legacy’s lower tiers, and that alone is a great reason to run it. Destroying hate is awesome.
Stinkweed Imp – Recurring removal, creature, graveyard-filler (engine), etc.
Sideboard:
Tombstalker - Sometimes, a more independent finisher is better than Psychatog or whatever other creature. Also works to negate Needle’s effect on you. Sometimes, two are better than one.
Sandstorm – Replaces Engineered Explosives. I was mostly using the Explosives to destroy goblins from EtW, but the Explosives often come online a little too slow to make the difference they need to make. Yes, they're versatile, but I already have Deed to sweep the board, and too often EE has become a replacement for targeted removal--in other words, not so great. So, I've replaced it with Sandstorm to increase the chances of beating EtW-based combo, and also because Sandstorm is much more effective than EE against Goblins (hell, at worst, it kills a first-turn Lackey). Besides, nobody expects it.
Crime//punishment – My sideboard seemed to lack versatile mass removal when I took out Engineered Explosives for Sandstorm, and so my thoughts turned to these. They can go in for Deed when Pithing Needle/Meddling Mage is expected, or they can be played in conjunction with Deed for some serious hate. Sometimes, the fact that they can be played slightly faster is preferable to Deed being an enchantment. Crime presents an interesting extra option (but only that: using it as a Deed should be your and its primary task), and one I’ve been testing out by including a single Savannah in the board. The question, of course, is whether this is simply a nod toward “cool things,” or a meaningful addition to the deck.
Savannah – Replaces Wasteland in matches where it’s irrelevant, less useful, or when you might want to use Crime. Alternately, it replaces Lonely Sandbar. I plugged in a Savannah rather than a basic Plains because if you draw it (rather than fetching it), you want to be able to play your key creatures. Hence also why I favoured it over Scrubland or Tundra. I’m wondering if these might not just be more useful than Lonely Sandbar, however.
Pithing Needle - Only really necessary against 'Belcher: FoW, Daze, Stifle, or Pernicious Deed (or Punishment) can help to take care of the rest. Jitte also takes care of opposing Jittes. Along with Deeds and Punishment, it should really shore up the Belcher matchup.
Tried or Suggested (but dismissed):
Nimble Mongoose: Unique in this section insofar as that I’d love to be able to include a few of these once more. It’s a quality beatstick that’s especially useful in block Goblin Lackey, it’s easily recurred via Genesis, and it’s bloody hard to remove. Gigapede currently fills a similar role as an untargetable beatstick, but his ability to become a discard engine is more valuable. Nonetheless, I’d really love to see a full complement of these make their way in—or at least 2-3. I’m just not sure if it’s possible (read: ideal). The only possible creature slots that it could occupy are the two filled by Psychatog and Tombstalker, but I’m not convinced that that would be a good move.
Berserk: Just a win-more card. It’s more useful in typical Tog lists, which tend to be creature-light (well, lighter). Sure, using it on Mongrel/Tog/Goyf is attractive, but it’s unnecessary since you’ll be applying pressure from the very start. It will help you win a turn earlier, but that’s not really enough to justify it’s inclusion over something else. Besides, it’s expensive.
Engineered Explosives – Great sweeper, but I was mostly using it to sweep Goblin tokens. Sandstorm does that better. As for general sweepers, I’ve now got Punishment, which I think is generally better despite being a sorcery.
Big Game Hunter – Great extra removal, good synergy with my discard outlets. As a singleton, useful in fairly specific circumstances. I’ve got Crime//Punishment now, however.
Engineered Plague – At first glance, a no-brainer in the sideboard. Unfortunately, it’s not as useful as one might hope: without Ritual, the mana commitment is intensive, and difficult to manage when trying to play around Wasteland/Port lockdown from Goblins. In its stead, I’ve chosen to rely largely on Sandstorm to get rid of miscellaneous 1/1s and tokens. It’s obviously not as good, but it works well enough in conjunction with the big beaters. It’s too bad that Plague doesn’t work so well--it would really make the Goblins matchup stellar. Some may still want to include it, but I feel that EtW-based combo decks pose a much larger threat to the deck, and Sandstorm and Crime//Punishment are both better suited to dealing with that than Plague is.
Some matchups:
Goblins: Even or a little better, pre-board. You have a much better intial matchup than either Threshold or Tog due to your increased fat and sweepers. Start by beating face for a couple turns, and then you should arrive at a stalemate. Attack (and block) carefully while you wait for Genesis, Wonder, Tombstalker, Psychatog, or Deed to give you an advantage. Post-board, you gain Sandstorm and perhaps Crime//punishment (that’s up to you—I prefer Deed, since it hits more, but Crime//Punishment could prove useful) to complement your Deeds, which ultimately really turn the matchup in your favour. I also like to replace Psychatog with the Tombstalker, which doesn’t need to wait to fly and has a higher initial toughness. Bringing in Stifle for Daze can also be a good move. A first-turn Lackey is the biggest threat when playing against Goblins—you’re going to have a hard time dealing with it if it brings in a Siege-Gang or something. Still, if you don’t panic, you’re quite capable of turning the tables—as long as you put some kind of creature on the table fairly soon. I myself have recovered from slow starts a number of times (and I’m not such a great player), but I won’t lie: it isn’t easy, and such a situation is far from favourable. My sideboarding choices are pretty simple, really: Sandstorm as a Lackey and token answer (unless you draw two!), Needle for Siege-Gang Commander, Tombstalker because he’s beefy (and therefore hard to remove) and flies without Wonder, and Savannah because it’s better than Lonely Sandbar. Gigapede goes out simply because he’ll die to a weenie, which sucks for a five-mana drop. Likewise, Daze goes out because it doesn’t do much versus Vial, and you could use the slot for something more pro-active.
+3 Sandstorm
+3 Pithing Needle (or Crime//Punishment)
+1 Tombstalker
+1 Savannah
-3 Daze
-1 Gigapede
-1 Psychatog
-1 Serum Visions* (not sure if there’s something better to take out)
-1 Brainstorm* (not sure if there’s something better to take out)
-1 Lonely Sandbar
The EPIC Storm: An ugly matchup, initially. With Deed, you might be able to force your opponent into a Tendrils-win if you can stall long enough with Fow/Daze, but it will only get you so far. I expect to lose game one. For subsequent games, however, your chances are strong. Just remember that you can stack Sandstorm so that it will kill both Xantid Swarm and Goblins, but you won’t be able to cast anything else that turn (shouldn’t be a problem, though, since so many resources will have been expended on Goblin tokens; if your opponent is reaching for a Tendrils kill, however, Sandstorm won’t help). Watch out for Goblin War Strike, since it can make things a little sticky.
+4 Stifle
+3 Sandstorm
+3 Crime//punishment
+1 Savannah
-3 Umezawa’s Jitte
-3 Intuition
-1 Genesis
-1 Wonder
-1 Stinkweed Imp
-1 Gigapede
-1 Lonely Sandbar
Threshold: Generally favourable. Expect to take some losses early in the game (to counterspells and so on), but as the game progresses, your odds get better and better—and the game can’t help but to progress, since each and every one of your creatures (barring Wonder, if it’s not in the graveyard) is a bigger threat than their own. Usually, you can just sit tight with just a Mongrel or Tarmogoyf to block things and keep a small army (say, two Mongeese and a Werebear or perhaps even a Tarmogoyf) at bay. Tarmogoyf is their biggest threat against you; use Ghastly Demise on it. Gigapede is an all-star in this matchup, since enemy burn and Swords to Plowshares can’t touch it—and Mages are unlikely to ever name it. Your first Intuition should fetch it out along with Genesis and either Wonder or Stinkweed Imp, whatever the situation calls for, and everything will be peachy. Your opponent is likely to expend StPs early, so use that to your advantage—a StPed Imp sucks, but whatever. Your better creatures and mass removal should ultimately prove too much to contend with when coupled with timely counterspells. Expect Pithing Needles to name Jitte and/or Deed (Whichever you played in the first game; if both were played, the first Needle or Mage will likely hit Deed) in subsequent games, and prepare accordingly. I like to side out Jitte for Crime//Punishment because of opposing Needles, but Ghastly Demise could also come out for it.
+3 Crime//Punishment
+1 Savannah
-3 Umezawa’s Jitte/Ghastly Demise
-1 Lonely Sandbar
Countersliver: Hard matchup, often decided early on. With an active Mongrel or Tarmogoyf, you can hold the bastards at bay for some time; you really want Tarmogoyf, though. The tricky thing is not getting overwhelmed before you can clear the board and start killing your opponent. Accordingly, you need to stall the early game. That means keeping Mongrel as a blocker (you opponent will be reluctant to swing into it without two Muscle/Sinew Slivers or a lot of other slivers), and hoping to resolve Tarmogoyf to do the same. You want to try to counter Crystalline Sliver so that you can still remove stuff with Ghastly Demise. Unfortunately, your opponent also has counterspells, so you need to prioritize: should you protect Tarmogoyf, or Deed? These are decisions that you’ll have to make yourself. Post-board, lose Ghastly Demise in favour of Crime//Punishment. You probably wont want to use Crime, but the Savannah is important to speed you up.
+3 Crime//Punishment
+1 Savannah
-3 Ghastly Demise
-1 Lonely Sandbar
IggyPop: Easier to deal with than other storm-combo decks, since your counters are actually useful (countering either Ill-Gotten Gains or the tutor reaching for it, etc.). Still, game one could be ugly—especially since IggyPop sometimes runs Empty the Warrens now. Afterwards, you gain Stifle and Sandstorm, which should even things out for you.
+4 Stifle
+3 Sandstorm
+2 Crime//punishment
+1 Savannah
-3 Pernicious Deed
-3 Ghastly Demise
-1 Stinkweed Imp
-1 Wonder
-1 Genesis
-1 Lonely Sandbar
Solidarity: Without Stifle, don’t expect to win this one. Even then, victory is less than certain—unless, of course, Solidarity fizzles. Game one, try to counter High Tide, Reset, or Cunning Wish (you’re not likely to succeed, of course) in the hope that it will make your opponent fizzle. Below, you’ll see I board in Needle—yes, I know it’s not very useful. On the other hand, it can at least sometimes do something to slow the deck down, and it’s more useful against Solidarity than anything you’re taking out.
-3 Ghastly Demise
-3 Pernicious Deed
-1 Stinkweed Imp
-1 Wasteland
+1 Tombstalker
+1 Savannah
+2 Pithing Needle
+4 Stifle
Faerie Stompy: Usually a pretty exciting match. The amount of removal that you run will pose problems for Faerie Stompy, but FS can easily break out Chalice and Pithing Needle to slow you down. Needle is especially unfortunate since Deed and Mongrel are the real all-stars in this matchup (Psychatog too, but Mongrel comes out faster). Counter Needle whenever possible, and you should be OK. Chalice at one only hurts you because you lose Ghastly Demise and half of your draw engine (Dredge being the other half). Remember that you can still play Brainstorm/Serum Visions, they’ll just go straight to your graveyard (and into your Tarmogoyf). If your opponent manages to set a Chalice at two… well, you’re in serious trouble unless you’ve got the better board position. If you can get beyond the first few turns without having to face down 2-3 huge fliers with nothing of your own, you are favoured to win. FS’ biggest asset in this fight is its explosive speed early on; its greatest weakness is its tenuous creature base. Often, you don’t really need to even counter SoFI—you can just destroy every creature that might wear it. Counter it if you can—I’m just saying that it won’t end your world. Oh, and this is one matchup where Crime (oh Gilded Drake, where are you?) is pretty useful.
+3 Crime//punishment
+3 Pithing Needle
+1 Savannah
+1 Tombstalker
-3 Umezawa’s Jitte (you might not always want to board this out; depends on the build you face)
-3 Pernicious Deed
-1 Psychatog
-1 Gigapede
Reanimator: Big, flying pro-black (and black) things are NOT good. Deed, Daze, and FoW, however, ARE (but Deed is not very useful in this matchup, unfortunately). Expect a fight, game one. For subsequent games, Stinkweed Imp, the extra Psychatog, and Tombstalker should make things more favourable for you. You’ll also want to use Crime, if possible—meaning that you need to live that long.
+3 Crime//Punishment
+1 Savannah
+1 Tombstalker
+1 Psychatog
-3 Pernicious Deed
-1 Lonely Sandbar
-1 Wild Mongrel
-1 Gigapede
Ichorid: See Reanimator (except with Punishment instead of Stifle, and with much lower odds on your success); I’d basically call this an auto-loss. Hell, I’ve pretty much stopped trying to win. Without graveyard hate in the SB, you just aren’t likely to win against an opponent that’s familiar with his deck. I figure that your best chance is if your opponent decks himself, but the odds are against you if this happens, since he’ll likely overwhelm you. Sandstorm will buy you a turn. Maybe you can use Crime to steal something permanent, who knows (unlikely, given the mana requirement)? You won’t need your counters, but Stifle might be useful versus Bridge or some of the creatures. Unfortunately, Ichorid seems to be gaining in popularity, which may well mean that you will need to devote some sideboard slots to hate it out (Leyline of the Void, since other decks suffer splash-hate from it). I would imagine that Pithing Needle is what you can most afford to take out (since Deed and Punishment sort of substitute for it), and if you replace a Lonely Sandbar with a Savannah, that gives you the necessary fourth slot.
+4 Stifle
+3 Crime//Punishment
+3 Sandstorm
+1 Savannah
-4 Force of Will
-3 Daze
-3 Ghastly Demise
-1 Lonely Sandbar
CRET Belcher: Win some, lose some. You need to counter Belcher to win. In fact, you’ll probably lose game one—especially since your opponent is likely to use Empty the Warrens. For subsequent games, you gain Stifle, Crime//punishment, Pithing Needle, and Sandstorm, and these should help immensely. Even then, however, this is no bye. Initially, you may be just as well off countering mana.
+4 Stifle
+3 Crime//punishment
+3 Pithing Needle
+3 Sandstom
+1 Savannah
+1 Tombstalker
-3 Ghastly Demise
-3 Umezawa’s Jitte
-3 Intuition
-1 Lonely Sandbar
-1 Stinkweed Imp
-1 Genesis
-1 Wonder
-1 Gigapede
-1 Wild Mongrel
Burn: Generally favourable. You can counter whatever extras point your way. Aim to resolve and activate Umezawa’s Jitte—to do so should win you the game. Also aim to make your opponent feel that s/he should burn your creatures (that’s a mistake, unless death is imminent). Bring in Pithing Needle for Ghastly Demise, and use it to name Barbarian Ring (unless, of course, the deck you’re facing runs some critters like Ball Lightning). Hey, it’s better than nothing. Also bring in Stifle and a Tombstalker for Deed, since you never know—maybe you can Stifle a fetchland, or something.
+3 Pithing Needle
+2 Stifle
+1 Tombstalker
-3 Ghastly Demise
-3 Pernicious Deed
Moon Vineyard RG Beatdown (or whatever you want to call it): Favourable. Try not to let Magus of the Moon resolve. Even if he does, the Vineyards will give you the green mana that you need to win. Gigapede is a house. You could also take out Deed for Crime//Punishment, just to give you an edge against Needle (and to grab as Ascetic or something if you can hold off Blood Moon effects!). Your own Needles should hit Sword of Fire and Ice first, then Troll Ascetic.
+3 Crime//Punishment
+3 Pithing Needle
+1 Savannah
-3 Pernicious Deed
-1 Lonely Sandbar
-1 Psychatog
-1 Tombstalker
Various Stax Builds: Slightly unfavourable to yucky, depending on the build. You’ll want to counter Smokestack and Trinisphere (less important), and use Wasteland liberally on the manabase. A single safe fatty will win you the game, but you’ll need to hold its hand the whole way through.
Random decks: You should crush most of these, largely thanks to Deed and, later, Crime//Punishment.
Some Issues:
Lonely Sandbar – How good is it, really? I’ve noticed that I almost always side one out for a Savannah to speed things up (it really sucks when it’s one of the two lands in your opening hand). Myself, I haven’t been too impressed--before, everyone was clamouring for their inclusion, saying that the deck’s draw was insufficient (which it isn’t, considering that Dredge is also a draw engine of sorts). Having one every once in a while to dredge on is nice, but two? I really, really want to replace one with a Savannah and just call it a day, opening one more SB slot. I realize, however, that I’m not wholly objective on this point, so you tell me: how has it played out in your own testing?
NOTES:
I can guarantee that such situations will come up, and they can really decide the game.Originally Posted by A recent rules article on MTGSalvation:
I think I rather like this deck, nice list
I'm wondering, however, have you tested Eternal Witness? It seems to me that you sometimes wish to recur a dead Deed or Jitte or maybe go nuts with a repeated Ghastly Demise. Witness has nice synergy with Genesis/Intuition as well. I must admit I haven't read the other 3 threads about this deck, so maybe it's discussed before, excuse me if that's true
"Magic is not just a game, it's a lifestyle"
Nice job Goaswerfraiejen. You have really put some soul into this now. :)
Anyways, I would like to ask, have you taken it to any tournaments lately? Would love to see a report on this.
A little concern I might have: To few beaters. I know that you run Genesis, but only running one and three Intuitions doesn't make it reliable enough IMO. As far as I can understand, you have to draw a starting hand consisting of Goyf/Mongrel and a balance of removal/counters, while not drawing excessive amount of non-relevant cards in the early game, like Tombstalker, Gigapede, etc.
From my experience, that tactic is very hard to depend on. Personally I run as often as I can, at least 8-10 of a card type I want in my start hand. Want a beater in the start hand? I'll say run 12 or so, especially because beaters are easily removed.
What if your opponent Extirpates Genesis? Sorry to say this, but to me it seems you have a hard time to keep up your defenses against creature decks that pack fast removal (even worse if they run Extirpate as well).
Oh, and btw, IMO Portent > Serum Visions. Portent have the advantage to dig one deeper overall, and is able to be used as an offensive tool as well, while early game being able to stailize your board.
That will be it for now. Hope you can use my thougts.
- Mordenkain
This is debatable depending on how big my boobs feel in the morning.
From my previous testing with other versions of DAT in the past, a 1-of Cephalid Coliseum is really strong. It allows you to Intuition for Genesis and Wonder and discard them both even without a discard outlet. I see that you utilize Gigapede instead... I guess that works too. Cephalid is also fairly strong with Loam when you draw 3 fresh cards to replace 2-3 lands in hand. 2 Lonely Sandbar 1 Coliseum was always my draw engine configuration with Loam.
Another thing I found when testing this deck is that you really want that 4th Intuition. Casting Intuition sets the entire deck up. I know the deck doesn't need the Loam engine online, but it's really nice to be able to make consistent land drops and such.
I'm not sure I agree with Jitte and Deed in the same pick. I'd probably choose 1 or the other... since this deck utilizes Genesis, I'd probably drop the Jitte.
Gigapede seems pointless with Genesis, though using it as a discard outlet seems like it works too.
Tombstalker is nice, but the deck should get flying via Wonder, and the deck has Tog as a finisher. I'd probably cut this.
In replace, I'd put Mongoose. Mongoose is just really really good in Aggro DAT.
The only other thing that I don't like is the 1 Tog. I know the deck can grab it with Intuition and Genesis it back if need be, but the fact that Tog just wins games would make me want more than 1. Not sure what else I'd cut though, and you seem like you have enough aggro to win without Tog anyway.
Considering that this list uses Intuition and Life from the Loam with little emphasis on black, I'm wondering whether or not Tog could be cut for Terravore and black could be cut for white so the deck gets access to Swords to Plowshares, Meddling Mage, Solitary Confinement and Nantuko Monastery. The Pernicious Deeds could be replaced with Intuition, Life from the Loam, Academy Ruins and Engineered Explosives for removal and Solitary Confinement is just as good at stabilizing the board if the deck is going to get Wonder and win in the air.
I'd be all over Merchant Scroll and Mox Diamond in this to.
I'm surprised that I didn't think about it before, but you're right: even just a single Eternal Witness could go a long way to reusing spent cards. Indeed, I've sometimes run into situations where I would have loved to be able to recur something. I doubt I can find room in the deck for very many, but even just a single one to be dredged away/caught out with Intuition would probably be very, very good. I'll make room for a loner. Thank you.
I'm wondering, however, have you tested Eternal Witness? It seems to me that you sometimes wish to recur a dead Deed or Jitte or maybe go nuts with a repeated Ghastly Demise. Witness has nice synergy with Genesis/Intuition as well. I must admit I haven't read the other 3 threads about this deck, so maybe it's discussed before, excuse me if that's true
Unfortunately, no. I live in an area without much of a Magic scene, let alone a Legacy scene. I'm hoping to be around (and have the time to attend) for a few small Legacy events in Montreal, but I'm not counting on it. Nevertheless, I've been on the lookout for Apprentice/MWS tournies, since at least that's something. Just waiting for one I can participate in.
The most important thing in your opening hand is to have two lands and a beater, or some kind of draw. My own concern in this department is that the Apprentice and MWS shufflers aren't accurately representing my opening draws, since I seldom have trouble beyond mulliganing once or twice. I agree that fitting in more would be good, I'm just unsure as to what it should replace.A little concern I might have: To few beaters. I know that you run Genesis, but only running one and three Intuitions doesn't make it reliable enough IMO. As far as I can understand, you have to draw a starting hand consisting of Goyf/Mongrel and a balance of removal/counters, while not drawing excessive amount of non-relevant cards in the early game, like Tombstalker, Gigapede, etc.
Extirpate on Genesis sucks, but it's no worse than Tormod's Crypt on a graveyard with it and Wonder in it. When that happens, you just have to turn to what you draw--especially your reusables (Imp and Gigapede). Extirpate tends to hit Genesis targets more often than Genesis/Wonder themselves--granted, maybe that's just a function of the calibre of my opponents. To be honest, at this point, one-sided graveyard hate/removal worries me less than extensive creature destruction complemented by Swords to Ploswshares.What if your opponent Extirpates Genesis? Sorry to say this, but to me it seems you have a hard time to keep up your defenses against creature decks that pack fast removal (even worse if they run Extirpate as well).
[/QUOTE]Oh, and btw, IMO Portent > Serum Visions. Portent have the advantage to dig one deeper overall, and is able to be used as an offensive tool as well, while early game being able to stailize your board.
Portent is certainly something I'll need to test out. What attracts me to Serum Visions at present is that it can thin out my library (so to speak) and thereby increase my chances of drawing certain cards--if I need a land, for example, I can send two non-lands to the bottom and, as far as drawing a land is concerned, it's like I've just drawn three cards. Shuffling your library, on the other hand, is like resetting everything. At present, I feel that the number of fetches is more than enough to reset when necessary. In any case, I'll certainly give it a spin, since they're so similar, functionally.
Actually, I like the idea of Cephalid Coliseum quite a bit--better than Lonely Sandbar, to be honest, but that's probably just a bias. It'll basically be a reusable draw spell without much of a drawback. I definitely need to try it.
What I disliked about the fourth Intuition was that it was so often dead--that is to say, I wasn't running many one-or-so-ofs to fetch with it, and often I didn't want to cast it to grab my multiples (Jitte, Deed, etc.) because I had no way to recur them, and drawing them later on was more important. If I include Coliseum, Witness, and company, however, it's worth revisiting the fourth Intuition. At present, I cut the fourth for a third Deed.Another thing I found when testing this deck is that you really want that 4th Intuition. Casting Intuition sets the entire deck up. I know the deck doesn't need the Loam engine online, but it's really nice to be able to make consistent land drops and such.
That may well in fact be a fair assessment. I will try it out. Or even (and this may just be too cute) just a single Jitte with an Eternal Witness.I'm not sure I agree with Jitte and Deed in the same pick. I'd probably choose 1 or the other... since this deck utilizes Genesis, I'd probably drop the Jitte.
I have just one concern with a single Wonder, and that's what happens when one-sided Graveyard hate hits. Losing Wonder to Tormod's Crypt is going to be pretty serious, since it can cause a huge stalemate. Tombstalker is essentially Psychatog but with Flying and a permanent butt and without the discard capability (he removes up to six cards, which would give Psychatog +3/+3, making it a 4/5). To be honest, it's the 'Tog that doesn't prove spectacular--simply because there's often no real need to make him huge. On the other hand, he's a removal magnet because, if he isn't dealt with, he spells DOOM. I realize that it seems random, but I'm happy with that configuration at the moment. It's an issue that I revisit over and over, however.Tombstalker is nice, but the deck should get flying via Wonder, and the deck has Tog as a finisher. I'd probably cut this.
What I especially like is how you've found room for me to run Nimble Mongoose. Especially since I finally finished my playset.
There's a fair bit more testing to be done, but I think that we're really hammering out a VERY strong deck.
I've often considered cutting black altogether in favour of white (red would be a mistake, I think, albeit a sexy one), but ultimately that would just be TerraGeddon/Loam Confiment. Now, I love those decks to death, but I think that there's something worth pursuing here, in this black splash.
Thanks for the comments. I'll get back to everything once I've had the chance to fit in the Witness and see if Mongeese work better than Jitte.
It has that interesting ability to easily switch between control and aggro roles, and the draw engine + pseudo-toolbox can really shine.
After playing around and looking at the suggestions, I adjusted it a little bit, and here is what I have:
-=17 Mana Sources/Land (not including draw-land)=-
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Wasteland
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Windswept Heath
3 Polluted Delta
-=16 Draw Engine=-
4 Intuition
4 Brainstorm
2 Serum Visions
1 Life from the Loam
1 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
1 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Lonely Sandbar
-=13 Control=-
4 Force of Will
2 Daze
3 Ghastly Demise
1 Stinkweed Imp
3 Pernicious Deed
-=14 Beats=-
3 Nimble Mongoose
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Psychatog
1 Gigapede
1 Wonder
Changes from your original list:
+1 Cephalid Coliseum
+1 Tropical Island
+1 Intuition
+1 Eternal Witness
+3 Nimble Mongoose
-2 Serum Visions
-3 Umezawa's Jitte
-1 Daze
-1 Tombstalker
+1 Cephalid Coliseum: No need to really explain this one.
+1 Tropical Island: Even with your cantrip count, I don't feel comfortable going below 20 total mana sources (including the draw-land). If you don't mind 19 land, then stick with 19 of course. With mongoose in the board, I felt it was better to have a slightly better chance of opening with green.
+1 Intuition: This is the real engine of the deck. From goldfishing, I felt it was a necessary card to see within 4 turns. I especially like how you can 2-drop a creature and intuition into gas.
+1 Eternal Witness: A strong pick. Genesis+Witness is a house. Recursion is fairly powerful, and I think it is too synergistic with the Intuition/Discard/Dredge theme not to run at least one. Consider this going to 2 even.
+3 Nimble Mongoose: This is a great aggro card. Obviously, you aren't playing thresh, but this card still belongs. Consider this going to 4 (I had a hard time making room).
-2 Serum Visions: Serum visions is a good card, but I don't like it in this deck. I think there could be better options if you are intent on sticking to 8 1cc cantrips. For now, I cut them to make some room.
-3 Umezawa's Jitte: powerful card. It needs to be run in multiples or none at all usually (although e-witness helps). Jitte and PD can't be in the same deck, and deed seemed stronger.
-1 Daze: Making room.
-1 Tombstalker: I honestly just wasn't impressed with this card in this deck. Don't get me wrong, I think stalker is great in the right deck, and it certainly was good in your deck, but it didn't do anything overly special. Tog did the job just fine.
Other random comments:
I do have to say, because the deck can be somewhat toolboxy with many 1-of's, I felt that GY hate really hurt this deck a lot more than other more redundant GY-based decks.
Gigapede is an interesting card. I'm not totally set on its inclusion, but it can be very useful. It is definitely a niche card.
With Intuition and Ltfl, you can consider other utility land cards as well.
Anyways, nice deck.
peace,
4eak
I know that I am basically the only person on the source that would endorse this idea, but why not run Accumulate knowledge?
you already have 1/2 of the engine with intuition, you can also draw a lot mid-late game with early game dredge engine (in AKs) and then play a single 1 to draw 3-4 cards (refills your hand for 2 mana)... I think that it would be perfect for this deck, but that could be just me.
What would make AK better than the current draw engine?why not run Accumulate knowledge?
1.) Instant speed
2.) Less mana intensive
3.) Easier on the color curve
4.) Recurring Witness->AK is cool
5.) Unlike LftL, it doesn't replace your draw step.
6.) Arguably less cogs with more independently usable cards.
How is it not as good?
1.) Without Witness, Int/AK is really a one time use. LtfL, on the other hand, is constant.
2.) It doesn't put junk in the GY as easily (dredge) etc.
3.) Intuition often grabs the TnT rather than CAdv.
4.) AK can die to permission, LtFL+Cycling does not.
If you did run Int/AK, what would you take out for AK?
peace,
4eak
U/G/b Dredge A Tarmogoyf (DAT)
Lands (19)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Windswept Heath
4 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Wasteland
Creatures (14)
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Mongrel
1 Genesis
1 Wonder
Spells (27)
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
4 Intuition
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Darkblast
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Life from the Loam
Sideboard (15)
3 Stifle
3 Duress
4 Engineered Plague
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
This is more the direction I would go with the deck.
I cut the Lonely Sanbars. They are replaced with Coliseum in my deck. This deck doesn't really need to keep drawing cards with Loam every turn. I'm not running Tog, therefore once I hit Threshold for Mongoose or pump Tarmogoyf to his max size, there's really no need to put extra cards in the bin. The Loam engine is good for mana stabilization, Wasteland lock, pumping Mongrel, and draw with Coliseum. The draw engine doesn't need to be anything fancy, IMO, and Lonely Sanbars just seem like overkill. This isn't Dredge A Tog. Coliseum has a few major benefits. For one, you only need 1 Coliseum... with Sanbar, you need both. Secondly, it is a discard outlet for Genesis/Wonder. Lastly, it doesn't come into play tapped if you need to use it as a mana source.
I tightened up the manabase to make sure the deck isn't getting mana screwed early on when it doesn't have the Loam engine online. This means more colored mana sources, fetches, etc. The deck has a fundamentally higher mana curve than normal Thresh with Intuition, Loam, Deed, and Genesis. With only 8 cantrips, 19 lands seems appropriate.
Like I said above, I don't even run Tog anymore. There just doesn't seem to be much of a point for it now. By the time Tog gets online, it's just going to be win-more if you've been hitting them with the green beats.
Gigapede seems pointless. You have Genesis for recurring beaters, Mongoose for untargetability, and Coliseum/Mongrel as a discard outlet.
Stinkweed Imp also seems pointless. In typical DAT, it's good to have because the deck doesn't have big fat green men to block for it. In this deck, I don't see what Imp is going to do that Tarmogoyf can't as far as playing defensively. Stinkweed can Dredge (irrelevant, for the most part, with Genesis) and Stinkweed has Flying (irrelevant, for the most part, with Wonder). Tarmogoyf isn't just good defensively... he's also a strong aggressor.
Tombstalker just doesn't seem necessary either. This can easily fund his Delve cost, BB should be relatively easy to get, but does the deck really need another beater? The only valuable thing that comes to mind with Tombstalker is that he can avoid Deed... for that reason, I'm still keeping him as a consideration.
The 4th Intuition is important. You have 6 toolbox targets MD that you can grab with Intuition:
1 Wasteland
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Genesis
1 Wonder
1 Darkblast
1 Life from the Loam
Beyond that, Intuition can still grab cards like Deed and such too, and it's still a pitch target for FoW. Intuition gets the card advantage engine online, whether it be via Loam + Coliseum or Genesis. Having 4 increases your chances of doing so.
Everything else seems pretty run of the mill. My sideboard is just tossed together for now, but it seems to be pretty solid. Stifle/Duress answer combo, E Plague answers Goblins, EE answers EtW tokens or can come in as additional removal, Needle answers randomness. I didn't put Krosan Grips in the board, but those could also find their way in there.
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5297
I started working on U/G/b Aggro DAT a long while back. It was a fairly strong deck then, and obviously Tarmogoyf just puts it over the top. The link above is the link to the thread for the U/G/b Aggro DAT deck I was working on a while back. There might be some useful information there that could help you with the tuning of the deck.
Hanni, that build is some kind of hotness. When I looked at your linked thread, I remembered scanning the old list and thinking there needed to be another beatstick (and that mox diamond just didn't fit). With both of those issues resolved, I think I'd like to get behind the testing of this deck. If only I didn't travel to New Zealand for 5 months and leave all my cards besides threshold behind...proxy time!
I would, however, like to echo some of the other posters and suggest portent in place of visions. It's a much better play first turn, finding you your counters and setting up 2nd turn plays. More than that, it's fantastic at setting up efficient dredges (i.e., see genesis, ghastly demise, and wasteland on top; draw ghastly demise on upkeep and then dredge the other two on your turn).
As for eternal witness, I think its inclusion, while strong, is not good enough. Witness->deed recursion, etc. is powerful but incredibly mana-intensive. This deck is not built to be flooded with mana, even with loam, so witness should take a backseat for the time being, me thinks.
Yea, I suppose Portent works too. I don't think it's a big concern either way, I just usually prefer Serum Visions because it is a superior dig spell. This deck wants to find Intuition and Serum Visions will dig for it faster. However, I see the benefits of Portent too... you get your instant on their upkeep, whether it's Daze or Force or Ghastly Demise or whatever, and are able to play it on their turn. I also like how it can screw with the top of the opponent's deck when you are in a winning situation. Both cards have their pros and cons, choose the one you like better. I'll try Portent out and see if I like it better in this deck.
I'd use a Cabal Pit over a Darkblast, unless the Darkblast is being used for its Dredge, Cabal Pit deserves to be in there some where. Tomb of Urami could be an interesting finisher inside of a Loam shell as well.
I'm using Darkblast instead of the 4th Ghastly Demise. It's just another answer to a 1st turn Lackey, except it's recurrable. With a Plague on the table in games 2 and 3 vs Goblins, Darkblast can do nice work. Typically though, it's just there as a recurrable 1cc answer to stuffs. It hits Confidant's, which is useful because Demise doesn't. It's not really there to be used specifically to dredge, but it can be if needed.
Tomb of Urami doesn't seem to make sense when this deck doesn't really need any more finishers. I tried Cabal Pit before but I never really found it necessary... it doesn't work as removal until you establish Threshold. It's not recurrable until you have Loam. By that time, the deck should almost always be able to answer 2/2's with my own aggro + Genesis, Deed, or Ghastly Demise. The interesting thing their would be to win the Goyf vs Goyf battle with an uncounterable colorless removal source, but Darkblast should work well enough in this scenario. If you want to fit a Cabal Pit, though, I'd probably drop 1 Tropical Island or 1 Swamp.
Well, I've been doing significant testing with a version of the deck that's somewhere between my original, 4eak's, and Hanni's. The biggest difference between the current list and the original is that now Nimble Mongoose is back, and that changes things a little. For one thing, the deck once again becomes incredibly aggressive (note too that Genesis recursion becomes that much better). The deck also now fixes its weakness to excessive removal (notably Swords to Plowshares). The opening plays change a bit; a first-turn mongoose is often a great move (although, if you're going first, you can afford to cantrip to put out a strong Tarmogoyf on turn two). Lastly, the Goblins matchup now becomes much, much more favourable--dealing with Lackey is largely a non-issue with my present version. Oh, and I'm surprised to say that losing Jitte isn't so bad.
That said, here's the new decklist:
Lands (17)
3 Polluted Delta
3 Windswept Heath
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Wasteland
Creatures (16)
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Mongrel
1 Genesis
1 Wonder
1 Gigapede
1 Eternal Witness
Spells (27)
4 Serum Visions
4 Intuition
4 Force of Will
3 Brainstorm
3 Daze
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Darkblast
1 Life from the Loam
Sideboard (15)
4 Stifle
3 Sandstorm
3 Pithing Needle
3 Crime//Punishment
1 Savannah
1 Tombstalker
The other notable new addition is Darkblast; yes, indeed, I've come back to it once more. I particularly like Hanni's balance between Darkblast and Ghastly Demise--Darkblast is just enough to do what Demise can't. Plus, it dredges.
Eternal Witness: I think that it's an important addition. Not just for Deed recursion and Genesis interaction, since that's uncommon enough (gotta make it to the late game, after all), but just as a general situation-fixer. I've found myself using it to recur creatures and removal (or Wasteland/Coliseum!) rather often. I wouldn't want to run more than one, but at one, I feel that it's really earning its slot.
Cephalid Coliseum: Still undecided on this one. I like it (especially since it doesn't come in tapped), but the fact that it can only draw on Threshold is a bummer (since I'd love to use it to set up Thresh instead). On the other hand, the super-draw comes in handy, sometimes.
Gigapede: At first I took him out, but now he's back because I was really missing the ability to discard something to him when I don't have a Mongrel or the Tog in play. So very, very useful.
Serum Visions: Right now, I'm still in favour of Serum Visions for the reasons that I posted above; I constantly find myself wanting stuff at the bottom of my library rather than shuffled around.
Intuition #4: I'm still adjusting to the new 1-of setup. I've cut a Brainstorm (Serum Visions is too important) for it, without any real kickback. Still deciding if four is one too many, however.
THE SIDEBOARD
Still unchanged, I know. I've noticed a few things, however: notably, that it's almost overkill against EtW-based combo (you'll probably lose game one, but only horrid luck can lose you game two!). Basically, I think that my Stifle count can afford to go down by at least one. What should go in its place? Beats me, really. Could be, say, Jitte, Tabernacle, Leyline/Void/Crypt... honestly, I'm not sure. As of this post, I'll be taking out one Stifle for a single Tormod's Crypt, and we'll see where it goes from there.
I tinkered around with a Living Wish-based board (not a Wishboard, but a board that allows you to SB your one-ofs to create a Wishboard after sideboarding), but it wasn't all that successful. An interesting idea, but ultimately I think that it sacrifices too much of what makes the maindeck so good.
Another option is to start running Trinket Mage and to create a Mage-Board, but I'm not enamoured with that idea either. I'm happy enough with the current SB as a generic sideboard.
Tombstalker: Still in the board because you WILL face graveyard hate after the first game, and only having a single Wonder makes flying around a risky expectation. I've been very happy subbing him in for Gigapede or Psychatog in relevant matchups. He can also weaken enemy Tarmogoyfs (minor consideration) and evade Deed (also minor). Yes, he's another beater--but he can fly. That's what's most important about him in my mind: he reduces your reliance upon Wonder. The other option, in my mind, is Stinkweed Imp--but that's mostly just good defensively.
Crime/Punishment + Savannah: Still deciding just how useful these are overall.
Thanks very much for the replies--we've brewed up something truly formidable. Oh, and I played a random guy on MWS tonight who said he was tired of facing this deck again and again, so thanks for taking it up!
Siding in tombstalker to fight graveyard hate is...not that smart. If they draw hate before you draw stalker you may have yourself one dead card.
Second, please tell me you're planning on putting the fourth brainstorm in. That card is essential, seriously.
Finally, I'd be a tad worried about only having 17 lands and expecting to use genesis to recur threats.
However, your inclusion of witness is interesting me more and more. While I agree that expecting to recur it is greedy, using it as general card advantage/selection is rather good. I'll test it. But please, drop a serum visions for brainstorm and gigapede for another land, I think that will make the deck far more effective.
Pernicious Deed is a good sweeper and all, but the deck isn't even using black for its better cards, Duress, Dark Confidant, Engineered Plague, Psychatog etc. I've been running a similar list with white and loving it, you guys should really reconsider your splash. Pernicious Deed and Solitary Confinement are different beasts, but the deck can pick up Academy Ruins and Engineered Explosives and Swords to Plowshares is so much better at dealing with Jotun Grunt and July 14th Dreadnoughts.
You probably want Nostalgic Dreams over Eternal Witness, but both of those cards seem like such over kill to me.
That's a valid point. Here's my problem, though: what do you do when Wonder is unavailable for one reason or another? There's basically zero evasion in this deck. Sure, you can rely on brute force, but that doesn't help when you need to win now, or even just sooner rather than later. With that in mind, what do you suggest for a more synergistic in-colour evasive fattie?
EDIT: Avatar of Woe, perhaps?
Of course I plan on it, I'm just testing to see how vital it is compared to the fourth Intuition. As it is, I've been getting along fine without the fourth copy of either one, so it's just a question of tweaking things around.Second, please tell me you're planning on putting the fourth brainstorm in. That card is essential, seriously.
I don't ever expect to need to recur via Genesis--it's merely an option. That is to say, Genesis is for when the game goes long. In the late game, Genesis has enormous potential as massive card advantage. I was concerned about going from 18 to 17 lands (although I was mroe concerned about passing from 19 to 18, truth be told), but it hasn't proven to be a problem. With Life from the Loam (Eternal Witness if need/luck be), there's really no reason why you won't have Genesis recursion (capability; let's be clear--Genesis won't always be in the yard at the time, since there are often better plays available) online before or around your eighth turn. Sounds late, but the fact is that you shouldn't want or need it before then anyway. In my own testing, I usually reach a situation where I have Genesis in the yard along with a few ideal creatures by turn 8. Before then, there's usually little reason to start recurring creatures: you have plenty more to come (especially through cantrips). You only want to start recurring once you feel that you're running out of steam. In any case, the majority of your creatures cost two mana, which isn't very much--like I said, you should already have five mana by the time you want to start using Genesis in the first place. If not, then at least four for Mongoose recursion.Finally, I'd be a tad worried about only having 17 lands and expecting to use genesis to recur threats.
Long story short, Genesis is about maintaining a stable, controlling board in the late game. As such, I myself have not yet had any problems with the land count. Besides, back when I had was 18 and 19 lands, two of those were Sandbars, which don't really help. ;)
Glad you like the Witness--I have only good things to say about it, myself.However, your inclusion of witness is interesting me more and more. While I agree that expecting to recur it is greedy, using it as general card advantage/selection is rather good. I'll test it. But please, drop a serum visions for brainstorm and gigapede for another land, I think that will make the deck far more effective.
While I'll certainly try your suggestion, I have to confess that I don't like it. Serum Visions has proven far more important overall than Brainstorm (not just because it's a sorcery but, as I said in an ealier post, because it lets you manipulate your draws and increase your chances of drawing whatever; Brainstorm's main advantage [other than its speed], as far as I can tell, is that it saves important stuff from discard--discard isn't really prevalent enough in Legacy to worry me overmuch; besides, I don't care what's in my graveyard, since it all works for me anyway
Likewise, I'm not convinced about dropping Gigapede. I'll readily concede that Gigapede's main use is as a discard engine; seldom do I need to cast him, and even when that happens he's rather easily killed. Nevertheless, I think that he fills a very fundamental role in the deck: I fetch him out a lot, simply because relying on Mongrel/Tog to be alive just isn't good enough. Now, I'll readily recognize that the important part about Gigapede is the discard; in other words, the deck seems to want some sort of foolproof failsafe.
So, like i said: I'm definitely biased in what I say, but I'll give things a spin your way nonetheless. Always worth a try.
If not most, then a number of these have been addressed in the card discussion in the opening post. Without repeating myself too much, here's the gist of it all:
Duress: Too often dead. It's a horrible topdeck, and wholly useless in this deck given that we don't care what goes to our graveyard. What I mean is this: Duress is only particularly good (for this deck) against StP and storm combo decks. After all, we couldn't care less about aggro-control, since the control elements just feed the yard, which eventually turns into card advantage for us. As for aggro, well... Duress is always pretty much dead there. Against storm-based combo, Duress is more useful--but it doesn't hit the heart of the deck. Too often, you'll be taking a mana provider (one among many) or you'll be faced with a tutor vs. kill condition situation. Myself, I'd prefer to simply wipe the board of EtW tokens or wawit to Stifle Tendrils. In most local metagames, combo seems to enjoy a low profile; even at large tournaments, it doesn't make up such a huge portion of the field. Accordingly, Duress and its ilk belong--if anywhere--in the sideboard. I tried it there, as the deck history will show, but didn't like it at all. It was cluttering my hands and making me keep bad combo hands (that is to say, a hand with force, a blue spell, and Sandstorm is much stronger versus Legacy storm combo than one with force, blue, and Duress). I'm not saying that Duress is bad, just that it doesn't belong here.
Confidant: Even without Tombstalker, there are simply too many high casting costs floating around. FoW, Genesis, and Wonder, for one (three). Gigapede, if you run it. Lastly, too many 3-cost spells--these are the ones that will kill you. I tried Confidant, but he was subpar at best, and the life loss is far too significant for you to expect to be able to reliably switch gears. In the context of this deck, Confidant effectively forces you to keep to the aggro role pretty strictly--and that's not good.
EDIT 2: Forgot to write about the other two cards.
Plague: Deed and Punishment are more versatile, and simply better in general. Without Dark Ritual, Plague's effectiveness versus Empty the Warrens is significantly compromised. As for regular tribal matchups, they're already very strong.
Psychatog: Already running one. It's not worth cutting Mongoose, Mongrel, or Tarmogoyf to run a second--which would simply be overkill. Mongrel and Tarmogoyf are awesome early beaters, and they both hit for more than one. Mongoose hits for one for a time, but ultimately can't be targeted, which is a huge plus. Psychatog requires a more significant investment best suited for the endgame, when it will win. The gigapede slot is certainly one that could be replaced by a Psychatog but, like I said, Gigapede is quite important when you're trying to set up your set-piece Intuitions.
I agree, white is definitely a strong splash for this kind of deck. As I've said before, though, it resembles TerraGeddon a little too much. I love TerraGeddon, but it's a deck that tries to do different things.I've been running a similar list with white and loving it, you guys should really reconsider your splash. Pernicious Deed and Solitary Confinement are different beasts, but the deck can pick up Academy Ruins and Engineered Explosives and Swords to Plowshares is so much better at dealing with Jotun Grunt and July 14th Dreadnoughts.
I'm glad that you reminded me of Academy Ruins, because I've been thinking about EE again. I'm thinking about it because I don't like relying on the opponent to provide artifacts, and because it can deal with Dreadnought faster. On the other hand, Crime//Punishment is often simply better (in terms of token destruction, certainly, as well as for permanents that cost more than three mana; plus, it's "faster"). To be honest, I'm not sure either way, yet. I suspect that Academy recursion would just be too many cool things in one package, however.
While I'd forgotten about Dreams, Witness is probably better--simply because a countered Witness is no loss, and it can also be recurred if necessary (in the most extreme of circumstances, might I add!You probably want Nostalgic Dreams over Eternal Witness, but both of those cards seem like such over kill to me.). Besides, it chumps or swings for two.
Other than that, I've nothing earthshaking to report. Most of my tinkering lately has been with the sideboard, but I've not found a better general configuration yet. I've replaced a Stifle with a Tormod's Crypt simply because... well, overkill easily describes games two and three versus Warrens-based combo, especially Belcher. Tendrils remains a problem, however, so I'd be uncomfortable cutting Stifle altogether. A single Crypt goes a long way to helping versus Reanimator/RecSur/Ichorid, but Ichorid is going to be an auto-loss anyway.
Again, thanks for your comments. It's great to get these different perspectives.
Last edited by Goaswerfraiejen; 07-18-2007 at 08:29 AM. Reason: 1: Thought of Avatar of Woe. 2: Forgot to discuss two cards.
Just some updates. I've come back from some extensive testing and have made some minor adjustments. Too bad I missed the tournament run here.
Avatar of Woe: It's just been too unreliable. Great card, great ability, but too often it has to be hardcast. Otherwise, it comes into play at a time when it makes no real difference. I'm going back to Tombstalker for now. As I've explained, he's essentially another Psychatog, only he flies automatically. He has the added advantage of allowing you to select your Delve setting. I'm open to other independent (read: backup) fattie suggestions, though. Running a full complement of Negators would be interesting, but a whole other kettle of fish.
Extra Lands? Nope, not worth it. Runs fine as it is.
Eternal Witness: Still amazing.
Gigapede: Also still amazing. He's officially a keeper.
Daze: I wasn't too happy with Daze's role in the late game, and the loss of tempo made using it a precarious thing. I'm trying out 3x Stifle in its place. So far, I like it. The card is obviously seldom dead. Plus, it frees up sideboard space.
The Sideboard:
Currently, it looks as follows
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
3 Crime/Punishment
1 Savannah
1 Stifle
2 Free - Krosan Grip? Engineered Explosives? Engineered Plague? Sandstorm? Yixlid Jailer?
Really, there are two big changes, and one more minor change (Stifle going into the MD, thus freeing 3 slots). As I said earlier, I often found that my generic (base) sideboard was overkill when it came to goblin tokens--I've thus adjusted the numbers a bit more. With 4 Stifles and 6 sweepers, those matchups don't seem to have suffered at all (indeed, game one improves drastically, although it's still up to Lady Luck; also, dealing with Tendrils is now easier).
The second big change comes with Tormod's Crypt. Quite simply, I'm tired of Ichorid being an auto-loss, especially given its growing popularity. The four Crypts are a start when it comes to giving the deck a fighting chance. Perhaps the remaining two slots could likewise be devoted to Yixlid Jailer or something. Hard to say. I'm checking out my options.
This is probably the last significant update I'll be making for a while; at least, until new sets give me new tools to work with. I've made some changes to the main deck (-1 Wild Mongrel, -3 Daze, +1 Psychatog, +3 Mana Leak) and to the sideboard (brought in 4 Energy Field to fill the testing slot). Thus far, I'm sold on everything but the Energy Fields; still, time will tell. In any case, I've re-written the primer in the first post to reflect the current decklist (which is vastly superior). Hope more of you pick up the deck.
Take care,
-Goaswerfraiejen
Current Primer:
Deck History: This is an evolved version of what I used to think of as BUG Threshold. It started as a direct port to black, with Tombstalker for a finisher and Tarmogoyf for beatz (and Deed for versatility). Unfortunately, the deck felt significantly weaker than its other variants due to the loss of Meddling Mage, Worship, and decent spot-removal.
Clearly, then, the deck needed something more to make it viable—I started experimenting with elements from Gro-a-Tog (‘Tog, Genesis, Wonder) and dredge-based decks, and found that Wild Mongrel could be used to greatly increase consistency. From there, it was a small step to include Intuition and a small base of tutorable utility tools. There’s been some tinkering since, and what I present to you today is a base list that’s been largely finalized, although there are still a few question marks.
First phase.
Second phase.
Third Phase.
Fourth Phase.
(FYI, this is the deck’s fifth distinct incarnation)
Now, a decklist:
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Wasteland
1 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
3 Windswept Heath
3 Polluted Delta
4 Serum Visions
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Leak
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Life from the Loam
1 Darkblast
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Wild Mongrel
2 Psychatog
1 Genesis
1 Wonder
1 Gigapede
1 Eternal Witness
Sideboard:
4 Stifle
4 Energy Field
3 Crime//punishment
3 Pithing Needle
1 Tundra
Playing the deck--basics:
Basically, you want an opening hand with at least two lands and a creature (or two), or at least some kind of card-drawing. You can keep one-land hands with a lot of draw, but I just don’t trust that on MWS or Apprentice. Alternately, hands with a few lands and a few draw spells are fine too. In real life, things are sometimes different, depending on how well you shuffle. Generally, you want to keep a fairly aggressive strategy early on (as much as your hand will allow—you don’t really need counter backup early on) and then switch to a more controlling position when necessary to end the game with a flying alpha strike. Most games will play out as variations on this theme; the important thing is to remember to switch gears; if you don’t, you run the risk of being out-aggroed or out-controlled. If you drive a car with a standard transmission, then you should be familiar with the concept.
Why play this over other Threshold or ‘Tog variants? As always, I’ll be honest about my biases, but I believe that this deck is more resilient than typical Threshold, ‘Tog, or non-Ichorid Dredge builds, and the reason for this lies in the combination of strategies. Before I get into that, though, I want to point out your biggest advantage: people will think that you’re playing Threshold until you’re ready to show them otherwise. Accordingly, your opponents will waste valuable early resources on your early beatsticks, not realising that you’ve got significant recursion and evasion a little later on. You can almost always allow your creatures to be destroyed early on; it just doesn’t much matter. This is especially relevant versus aggro-control decks like Threshold, which you can force into making bad counters (thus protecting your control aspect and late-game). If your opponent mistakes your deck for Threshold, you are very likely to win game one (unless, of course, it’s a horrid matchup for you to begin with).
Now, TarmoTog begins the game aggressively, much like Threshold (except perhaps a little more aggressive—you want those extra points of damage, and you don’t need to wait for them very long). It has more (and bigger) creatures, however, and thanks to Genesis (coupled with Eternal Witness and Gigapede) it can recur them when it needs to (thus effectively negating most removal). When the aggro strategy starts to wind down, you can easily switch into ‘Tog mode and swing for a bazillion (ish) with a flying Psychatog (or whatever else: everything you play is a threat, barring perhaps Witness).
Now, originally, I wanted to reduce graveyard dependence when compared to traditional Threshold; as I’ve perfected the deck, however, I’ve had to sacrifice some of that independence for a more streamlined deck. Nevertheless, graveyard hate really isn’t that big a deal (especially if it’s one-sided, like Crypt). Your graveyard is a VERY useful tool, but it’s hardly necessary: almost all your creatures are scary even without a graveyard, the fact that you run both dredge and cantrip engines means that you can easily recover from temporary hate, and the deck packs far more aggression than ‘Tog or Threshold typically does, and so it can get away with it’s preference for a strong graveyard. It also doesn’t rely on a huge swing with ‘Tog—the ‘Tog swing is just one option among many (that are often equal); that alone is a huge bonus.
As far as more traditional Psychatog builds are concerned, my problem with them has usually been that they aren’t quite aggressive enough (at least, not for my taste—I don’t feel comfortable running 6-8 creatures in a format rife with removal); what I like even less is the reliance on a single massive swing (eggs, basket, etc.). Granted, I’m an aggro kind of guy--on the other hand, StP (which any Legacy deck with at least a white splash—and there are a lot--is bound to run) really sucks for you when you only run two or three real threats. This deck has a further advantage in that Pithing Needle is not very effective as a hate card, since the deck does not depend on any of the valid targets to an inordinate degree (Psychatog, Mongrel, or Deed) and can side them out—or can riposte with alternate mass-removal.
Sure, Psychatog decks have a scary number of counterspells—but these cards are reactive, and leave the deck largely defenceless if and when something punches through. While TarmoTog retains a minimum of counter-power, it relies more on Deed and Punishment to clear the way for lethal attacks/whatever. It’s also obviously much more aggressive (especially initially) than ‘Tog decks are, and therein, I think, lies its greatest strength: TarmoTog’s creatures can all win the game on their own (i.e. without the “finishers”). You don’t need Psychatog or Tarmogoyf to win the game—you can punch through with Mongrels/Gigapede/whatever. Indeed, I’ve found that a number of games are resolved without a Psychatog ever touching the table. In large part, of course, this is due to the fact that Tarmogoyf is essentially a finisher for IG.
So… yes, I’m biased towards my creation. On the other hand, I think that it embodies the best of both worlds (Threshold and ‘Tog), and I feel that the result is well worth noting. The deck’s composition gives it strong options in role assignment, and indeed allows it to switch roles at pretty much any point in the game—you can be aggro when you need to be, and you can be more controlling when that’s what’s required, but the best thing (in my opinion) about the deck is its ability to apply tremendous early pressure and then simply sit back and turtle through the opponent’s riposte until a kill can be set up.
Why not BUG Threshold? Like I said earlier, this deck originated as a Black-based Threshold port. I found that it lost too much, however, and that its gains eventually compromised its aggression (ex. Deed is counterproductive with Tarmogoyf and Nimble Mongoose). Losing Meddling Mage is also a huge blow. I just didn’t feel comfortable with the roles that the replacements were fulfilling (ex. Ghastly Demise for Swords to Plowshares). This deck functions in largely the same way as BUG Threshold, but its dependencies are reduced and the synergies have been increased, and the net result is, I think, a deck that is simply better.
How it works: Well, this part is pretty straightforward, especially for people who are familiar with Psychatog and Threshold. Open with a cantrip (OR Mongoose), follow up with a creature (hopefully Mongrel or Tarmogoyf), and continue to cantrip/cast creatures at your leisure while you beat face. Once your creatures start having a harder time getting through, switch into your control elements; that is, dig for Genesis/Wonder/Deed/Witness/etc. and counter what you can’t answer. Generally, your hardest matchups are against combo (because, initially, you haven’t got much; “combo” includes Ichorid) and Reanimator, but you can fight through. Don’t hesitate to shift gears (from aggro to control, or whatever) to keep your opponent off-balance long enough to kill him. The longer the game drags on against combo, the better your chances—although, to be fair, that goes for most decks.
The deck’s initial games are mostly favourable, since few decks run hate in the main deck and most people will waste their resources thinking that you’re playing a crappy version of Threshold. The biggest problem the deck faces is splash hate, since graveyard hate and Pithing Needle all work against it. I’ve tried to minimize this kind of hate’s effect on the deck (by giving it a quick graveyard recovery system and a certain independence from the grave, as well as by giving it alternative finishers), and these measures are certainly successful—nonetheless, the problem remains. That means that your second and third games will be harder, but I think that the deck has enough initial resilience that clever sideboarding (and in-game gear-shifting) will prove to be enough of a defence. In testing, this has certainly been the case. In fact, the only piece of hate that should really worry you is Jotun Grunt, but it’s not all that hard to handle.
Single Card Discussion:
Genesis - Single-handedly negates most removal, thus allowing you to make aggressive openings (trading with whatever your removal can’t touch, etc.). Genesis-based recursion also makes it so that you’re running more creatures than you really are, thus making Jitte all the more effective.
Wonder - As in more traditional Psychatog builds, Wonder is here to prevent stalemates and to allow for lethal attacks.
Tarmogoyf - Better than Werebear in every way, reduces dependence on my own graveyard; probably the single most important card in the deck. ‘Nuff said.
Gigapede – Quality beatstick that can’t be hit with targeted removal (like Swords to Plowshares!). Has the added advantage of recurring without Genesis, and acting as a discard outlet. Gigapede has proven invaluable, although Trample/more toughness would be nice. To be honest, Gigapede is probably the single most important recent addition to the current version of the deck—he’s just been amazing. Most of the time when you cast Intuition you’ll want to grab Gigapede, Genesis and/or Wonder, and/or something else. If the wrong card gets returned, you can just Gigapede it away, even without a Mongrel or Psychatog. Otherwise, you’ve got a bloody scary insect on the way.
Psychatog - A secondary or even tertiary strategy option. If the smaller ones can’t quite punch through, use Psychatog to crush the defences. Also acts as a fifth Mongrel. How useful is it really? In earlier versions of the deck I often found myself using Tombstalker in its stead, but I think that, if nothing else, it’s important as Mongrel #5. Definitely a removal magnet, but very useful nonetheless. Sometimes I think of cutting it, but I’ve always decided against it; the raw power and the utility are simply to significant to ignore. Accordingly, I’ve cut a Mongrel to fit in a second Psychatog.
Ghastly Demise - The weakest slot in the deck, since it can’t target black creatures and is also dependent on your graveyard. Vendetta is the only other real in-colour option, but I dislike the life loss (since Demise is best used against fatties). Smother would work, but the extra mana requirement is a significant hindrance, plus it can’t get rid of anything particularly large and threatening beyond Tarmogoyf (weenies are easily dealt with, what with your ginormous creatures and all; it’s big flying fatties that are scariest).
Life from the Loam – Helps you skirt LD strategies, feeds the grave (acting as a draw engine even without Lonely Sandbar or Cephalid Coliseum), recurs Wasteland, and pumps Mongrel and Psychatog. Very important inclusion, but not a crucial part of your strategy.
Pernicious Deed - Too important not to play. Deed is both a wrath-effect and more pinpointed removal, and clearing the board is always good—especially since you can just use Genesis to put the fat back on the table. Deed is the bane of Legacy’s lower tiers, and that alone is a great reason to run it. Destroying hate is awesome.
Sideboard:
Crime/Punishment – My sideboard seemed to lack versatile mass removal when I took out Engineered Explosives for Sandstorm, and so my thoughts turned to these. They can go in for Deed when Pithing Needle/Meddling Mage is expected, or they can be played in conjunction with Deed for some serious hate. Sometimes, the fact that they can be played slightly faster is preferable to Deed being an enchantment. Crime presents an interesting extra option (but only that: using it as a Deed should be your and its primary task), and one I’ve been testing out by including a single Tundra in the board. The question, of course, is whether this is simply a nod toward “cool things,” or a meaningful addition to the deck. Myself, after all this testing, I’ve been leaning towards the latter.
Energy Field – Currently testing in place of Sandstorm and/or Engineered Explosives as a solution to the Ichorid and Burn matchups (which needed a helping hand), despite its obvious lack of synergy with much of the deck. It’s working well, but still does nothing against Tendrils—although it sure does help trump other combo win conditions. It’s also your only option (and not a great one at that) against Lands.dec.
[i]Tundra/i] – Replaces Wasteland in matches where it’s irrelevant, less useful, or when you might want to use Crime. Alternately, it replaces Cephalid Coliseum. I plugged in a Tundra rather than a basic Plains because I always want to be able to fetch it out.
Pithing Needle - Only really necessary against 'Belcher: FoW, Daze, Stifle, or Pernicious Deed (or Punishment) can help to take care of the rest. Along with Deeds and Punishment, it should really shore up the Belcher matchup. Other than that, the Needle is almost always great.
Tried or Suggested (but dismissed):
Daze: Great card, but I’ve cut it for Mana Leak for a few reasons: Mana Leak is more effective in the mid to late game, and Mana Leak doesn’t tempt you into making bad moves that result in significant tempo loss. You’ve got to be as wary of Daze as Wasteland; besides, Deed can easily take care of any of the early permanents that might hit the table. Daze was particularly handy early on against Faerie Stompy, Stax, and storm-based combo, but I felt that the disadvantages were too significant. In most games, it’s in the late game that you need Daze; and that’s precisely when it’s useless. Besides, competent opponents will think you’re running Daze until you somehow reveal a Mana Leak (And sometimes even after), which can be a significant boon.
Berserk: Just a win-more card. It’s more useful in typical Tog lists, which tend to be creature-light (well, lighter). Sure, using it on Mongrel/Tog/Goyf is attractive, but it’s unnecessary since you’ll be applying pressure from the very start. It will help you win a turn earlier, but that’s not really enough to justify it’s inclusion over something else. Besides, it’s expensive.
Engineered Explosives: Great sweeper, but I was mostly using it to sweep Goblin tokens. Sandstorm does that better. As for general sweepers, I’ve now got Punishment, which I think is generally better despite being a sorcery.
Sandstorm: Originally replaced Engineered Explosives. I was mostly using the Explosives to destroy goblins from EtW, but the Explosives often come online a little too slow to make the difference they need to make. Yes, they're versatile, but I already have Deed to sweep the board, and too often EE has become a replacement for targeted removal--in other words, not so great. So, I've replaced it with Sandstorm to increase the chances of beating EtW-based combo, and also because Sandstorm is much more effective than EE against Goblins (hell, at worst, it kills a first-turn Lackey). Besides, nobody expects it.
Big Game Hunter: Great extra removal, good synergy with my discard outlets. As a singleton, useful in fairly specific circumstances. I’ve got Crime//Punishment now, however.
Engineered Plague: At first glance, a no-brainer in the sideboard. Unfortunately, it’s not as useful as one might hope: without Ritual, the mana commitment is intensive, and difficult to manage when trying to play around Wasteland/Port lockdown from Goblins. In its stead, I’ve chosen to rely largely on Sandstorm to get rid of miscellaneous 1/1s and tokens. It’s obviously not as good, but it works well enough in conjunction with the big beaters. It’s too bad that Plague doesn’t work so well--it would really make the Goblins matchup stellar. Some may still want to include it, but I feel that EtW-based combo decks pose a much larger threat to the deck, and Sandstorm and Crime//Punishment are both better suited to dealing with that than Plague is.
Tombstalker: Often questioned. Usually, the complaint is that he eats the graveyard. What most of his detractors fail to realise, however, is that TarmoTog’s graveyard is a resource, unlike Threshold, where it’s a necessity (even a crutch). Ghastly Demise can suffer under Tombstalker, but by the time you cast this bugger you should have used most—or you should have the ability to cantrip/dredge into a graveyard. Tarmogoyf doesn’t much care because he feeds on your opponent’s graveyard as well (in fact, Tarmogoyf is the key to winning against Fish decks with Leyline of the Void, since he’ll still be bigger than their stuff). Your dredge engines are there for two reasons: to feed Tombstalker and Psychatog, and to dominate the late game through recursion. You should, of course, try to keep at least a single dredger in there if you can)—in any case, you can recover your grave quickly enough. He’s a healthy alternative finisher (rather than Psychatog), since he flies without Wonder. Ultimately, when you play Tombstalker, you’re playing him to win—at that point, what’s in the grave is less relevant (either because there’s more than enough in there, or because you just need a fattie with evasion). In the end, I’ve cut him out for now, simply because I needed more room in the sideboard for problematic matchups, and my creatures are all pretty fat to begin with.
Stinkweed Imp: Recurring removal, creature, graveyard-filler (engine), etc. I kind of miss using this guy.
Some matchups:
Goblins: Even or a little better, pre-board. You have a much better intial matchup than either Threshold or Tog due to your increased fat and sweepers. Start by beating face for a couple of turns (if you can safely do so), and then you should arrive at a stalemate. Attack (and block) carefully while you wait for Genesis, Wonder, Psychatog, or Deed to give you an advantage. Post-board, you gain Crime/Punishment to complement your Deeds, which ultimately really turn the matchup in your favour. You can also opt for Pithing Needle or even Energy Field. Bringing in Stifle for Mana Leak can also be a good move. Before Mongoose’s inclusion, a first-turn Lackey was the biggest threat you’d face from Goblins; now, I’d say you’ve got to be wary of Kiki-Jiki and Siege-Gang Commander silliness, since these games are likely to drag out a little. Even if you can’t answer a first-turn Lackey, if you don’t panic, you’re quite capable of turning the tables—as long as you put some kind of creature on the table fairly soon (preferably turn two). I myself have recovered from slow starts a number of times (and I’m not such a great player), but I won’t lie: it isn’t easy, and such a situation is far from favourable. My sideboarding choices are pretty simple, really: Punishment to kill everything, Needle for Siege-Gang Commander or excessive Wastelands/Ports, and Stifle replaces Mana Leak’s role. Energy Field is entirely up to you. Gigapede goes out simply because he’ll die to a weenie, which sucks for a five-mana drop. Likewise, Mana Leak goes out because it doesn’t do much versus Vial, and you could use the slot for something more pro-active. Oh, and Cephalid Coliseum is probably better off if it becomes a Tundra.
+3 Crime/Punishment
+3 Stifle/Pithing Needle
+1 Tundra
-3 Mana Leak
-1 Gigapede
-1 Darkblast
-1 Genesis
-1 Cephalid Coliseum
The EPIC Storm: Game one is an ugly matchup simply because you’re not likely to keep a hand fast enough/with the immediate tools to deal with TES. With Deed, you might be able to force your opponent into a Tendrils-win if you can stall long enough with Fow/Mana Leak, but it will only get you so far. I expect to lose game one. For subsequent games, however, your chances are strong for as long as you can avoid the Tendrils-win. If you’re playing with Sandstorm, just remember that you can stack Sandstorm so that it will kill both Xantid Swarm and Goblins, but you won’t be able to cast anything else that turn (shouldn’t be a problem, though, since so many resources will have been expended on Goblin tokens; if your opponent is reaching for a Tendrils kill, however, Sandstorm won’t help). Watch out for Goblin War Strike, since it can make things a little sticky.
+4 Stifle
+3 Crime/Punishment
+1 Tundra
-3 Ghastly Demise
-1 Darkblast
-1 Genesis
-1 Wonder
-1 Gigapede
-1 Cephalid Coliseum
Threshold: Generally favourable. Expect to take some losses early in the game (to counterspells and so on), but as the game progresses, your odds get better and better—and the game can’t help but to progress, since each and every one of your creatures (barring Wonder, if it’s not in the graveyard, and Eternal Witness) is a bigger threat than their own. Usually, you can just sit tight with just a Mongrel or Tarmogoyf to block things and keep a small army (say, two Mongeese and a Werebear or perhaps even a Tarmogoyf) at bay. Tarmogoyf is their biggest threat against you; use Ghastly Demise on it. Gigapede is an all-star in this matchup, since enemy burn and Swords to Plowshares can’t touch it—and Mages are unlikely to ever name it. Your first Intuition should fetch it out along with Genesis and Wonder, and everything should be peachy. Your opponent is likely to expend StPs early, so use that to your advantage. Your better creatures and mass removal should ultimately prove too much to contend with when coupled with timely counterspells and a lot of recursion. Expect Pithing Needles to name Deed, and prepare accordingly. I like to side out Deed for Crime/Punishment because of opposing Needles and/or Mages, but Ghastly Demise could also come out for it if you want to keep both. The nice thing about this matchup is that you can use Crime on opposing creatures, since the game is likely to go on long enough. You’re also lucky in that your opponent is likely to waste his resources in the first game, thinking you’re playing Threshold as well. Just be careful when you play against UGR Thresh—the burn can really turn the game.
+3 Crime/Punishment
+1 Tundra
-3 Pernicious Deed/Ghastly Demise/Mana Leak - - depends on what you plan on doing.
-1 Darkblast
Countersliver: Hard matchup, often decided early on. With an active Mongrel or Tarmogoyf, you can hold the bastards at bay for some time; you really want Tarmogoyf, though. The tricky thing is not getting overwhelmed before you can clear the board and start killing your opponent. Accordingly, you need to stall the early game. That means keeping Mongrel as a blocker (you opponent will be reluctant to swing into it without two Muscle/Sinew Slivers or a lot of other slivers), and hoping to resolve Tarmogoyf to do the same. You want to try to counter Crystalline Sliver so that you can still remove stuff with Ghastly Demise. Unfortunately, your opponent also has counterspells, so you need to prioritize: should you protect Tarmogoyf, or Deed? These are decisions that you’ll have to make yourself. Post-board, lose Ghastly Demise in favour of Crime/Punishment. You probably won’t want to use Crime, but the Tundra is important to speed you up. Surprisingly, Energy Field can be quite good here, since what you really need is a means of stalling for a while. Alternately, Pithing Needle can help by targeting Aether Vial. Having six sweepers is the most important thing, though.
+3 Crime/Punishment
+3 Pithing Needle/Energy Field
+1 Tundra
-3 Ghastly Demise
-1 Cephalid Coliseum
-1 Darkblast
-1 Life from the Loam
-1 Intuition
IggyPop: Easier to deal with than other storm-combo decks, since your counters are actually useful (countering either Ill-Gotten Gains or the tutor reaching for it, etc.). Still, game one could be ugly - -especially since IggyPop sometimes runs Empty the Warrens now. Afterwards, you gain Stifle, which should even things out for you. You pretty much need your counterspells to win - - keep your mana open. If you fool him into thinking you have a Stifle, so much the better. Just use your counters wisely, and you can win. Aafter stopping him from going off once, just about any beatstick should do it.
+4 Stifle
+3 Crime/punishment (just in case Empty the Warrens is being used)
+1 Tundra
-3 Pernicious Deed
-3 Ghastly Demise
-1 Darkblast
-1 Wonder
Solidarity: Without Stifle, don’t expect to win this one. Even then, victory is less than certain—unless, of course, Solidarity fizzles. Game one, try to counter High Tide, Reset, or Cunning Wish (you’re not likely to succeed, of course) in the hope that it will make your opponent fizzle. Below, you’ll see that I board in Needle - - yes, I know it’s not very useful. On the other hand, it can at least sometimes do something to slow the deck down, and it’s more useful against Solidarity than anything you’re taking out.
-3 Ghastly Demise
-3 Pernicious Deed
-1 Darkblast
-1 Wasteland
+4 Stifle
+3 Pithing Needle
+1 Tundra
Faerie Stompy: Usually a pretty exciting match. The amount of removal that you run will pose problems for Faerie Stompy, but FS can easily break out Chalice and Pithing Needle to slow you down. Needle is especially unfortunate since Deed and Mongrel are the real all-stars in this matchup (Psychatog too, but Mongrel comes out faster). Counter Needle whenever possible, and you should be OK. Chalice at one only hurts you because you lose Ghastly Demise and half of your draw engine (Dredge being the other half). Remember that you can still play Brainstorm/Serum Visions, they’ll just go straight to your graveyard (and into your Tarmogoyf). If your opponent manages to set a Chalice at two… well, you’re in serious trouble unless you’ve got the better board position. If you can get beyond the first few turns without having to face down 2-3 huge fliers with nothing of your own, you are favoured to win. FS’ biggest asset in this fight is its explosive speed early on; its greatest weakness is its tenuous creature base. Often, you don’t really need to even counter SoFI—you can just destroy every creature that might wear it. Counter it if you can—I’m just saying that it won’t end your world. Oh, and this is one matchup where Crime (oh Gilded Drake, where are you?) is pretty useful. Energy Field is something that FS will have a very hard time dealing with, too. Deeds should come out, though, because of Trinket Mage.
+3 Crime/punishment
+3 Pithing Needle
+1 Tundra
(+4 Energy Field - - this is just an option. It’s not really necessary at all, but it’s there if you feel more comfortable with it.)
-3 Pernicious Deed
-1 Psychatog
-1 Gigapede
-1 Darkblast
-1 Cephalid Coliseum
Reanimator: Big, flying, pro-black (and black) things are NOT good. Deed, Mana Leak, and FoW, however, ARE (but Deed is not very useful in this matchup, unfortunately). Expect a fight, game one. For subsequent games, you’ll want to use Crime, if possible—meaning that you need to live that long. Energy Field should also prove very effective.
+4 Energy Field
+3 Crime/Punishment
+1 Tundra
-3 Pernicious Deed
-3 Mana Leak
-1 Cephalid Coliseum
-1 Darkblast
Ichorid: See Reanimator; I’d basically call this an auto-loss. Hell, I’ve pretty much stopped trying to win. Without graveyard hate in the SB, you just aren’t likely to win against an opponent that’s familiar with his deck. I figure that your best chance is if your opponent decks himself, but the odds are against you if this happens, since he’ll likely overwhelm you. Your only option, really, is Energy Field. Maybe you can use Crime to steal something permanent, who knows (unlikely, given the mana requirement)? You won’t need your counters, but Stifle might be useful versus Bridge or some of the creatures. Unfortunately, Ichorid seems to be gaining in popularity, which may well mean that you will need to devote some sideboard slots to hate it out (Leyline of the Void, since other decks suffer splash-hate from it). I would imagine that Pithing Needle is what you can most afford to take out (since Deed and Punishment sort of substitute for it).
+4 Stifle
+4 Energy Field
+3 Crime/Punishment
+1 Tundra
-4 Force of Will
-3 Mana Leak
-3 Ghastly Demise
-1 Wasteland
-1 Cephalid Coliseum
CRET Belcher: Win some, lose some. You need to counter Belcher to win. In fact, you’ll probably lose game one—especially since your opponent is likely to use Empty the Warrens. For subsequent games, you gain Stifle, Crime/Punishment, Pithing Needle, and Energy Field, and these should help immensely. Even then, however, this is no bye; if you can survive the first kill condition that he casts, however, all you need is a single creature (of any size, really) to win. Post-board, you go into overkill mode.
+4 Stifle
+4 Energy Field
+3 Crime/Punishment
+3 Pithing Needle
+1 Tundra
-4 Intuition
-3 Ghastly Demise
-2 Wild Mongrel
-1 Cephalid Coliseum
-1 Eternal Witness
-1 Genesis
-1 Wonder
-1 Gigapede
-1 Darkblast
Burn: Oddly difficult. Aim to make your opponent feel that s/he should burn your creatures (that’s a mistake, unless death is imminent) in the first game, and counter significant spells headed your way—just remember to save one for that Fireblast. Bring in Pithing Needle for Ghastly Demise, and use it to name Barbarian Ring (unless, of course, the deck you’re facing runs some critters like Ball Lightning). Hey, it’s better than nothing. Also bring in Energy Field for Deed and Darkblast (unless you’re facing Ball Lightning-type decks): you should be able to play it and keep it alive long enough to stabilize, provided you don’t have a Mongrel on the table. You could side out Mongrels for Stifle and hope to hit a fetchland; that might help, but I<m not a big fan.
+4 Energy Field
+3 Pithing Needle
-3 Ghastly Demise
-3 Pernicious Deed
-1 Darkblast
Raffinity/RafFOWnity: Honestly, this is ususally a really easy matchup for you. Deed and Punishment blow up their entire board, lands included, and Pithing Needle and Energy Field are also very relevant. So is your removal; win-win (for you).
+3 Crime/Punishment
+3 Pithing Needle
+2 Energy Field
-3 Mana Leak
-3 Wild Mongrel
-1 Gigapede
-1 Darkblast
Moon Vineyard RG Beatdown (or whatever you want to call it): Favourable. Try not to let Magus of the Moon resolve. Even if he does, the Vineyards will give you the green mana that you need to win. Gigapede is a house. You could also take out Deed for Crime/Punishment, just to give you an edge against Needle (and to grab an Ascetic or something if you can hold off Blood Moon effects!). Your own Needles should hit Sword of Fire and Ice first, then Troll Ascetic.
+3 Crime//Punishment
+3 Pithing Needle
+1 Tundra
-3 Pernicious Deed
-1 Wasteland
-1 Cephalid Coliseum
-1 Psychatog
Various Stax Builds: Slightly unfavourable to yucky, depending on the build. You’ll want to counter Smokestack and Trinisphere (less important), and use Wasteland liberally on the manabase. A single safe fatty will win you the game, but you’ll need to hold its hand the whole way through. Not yet sure about optimal sideboarding.
Random decks: You should crush most of these, largely thanks to Deed and, later, Crime/Punishment.
Some Issues:
Cephalid Coliseum – How good is it, really? It’s amazing when you have extra cards in hand; not so good when you don’t. The only other options, however, are going back to cycle-lands (mmmno) or perhaps Dakmor Salvage (coming into play tapped is crappy, though). So I<m keeping it for now, but looking to future sets for a better option.
NOTES:
I can guarantee that such situations will come up, and they can really decide the game.
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