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Thread: [Deck] Triton's Minions

  1. #61
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    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    Or Waterfront Bouncer, conveniently a Merfolk. If the deck is fast enough, you can just sacrifice your hand to keep the board clear while you swing for the kill. I haven't tested the deck, so I don't know if it is fast enough.
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  2. #62
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    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Wow. Maveric, I can't believe you and I are playing with the same cards. We disagree on many of the major points here. I am seeing opposing critters as a problem. In particular, Mangara, Dark Confidant and Grim Lavamancer have been hard on me. And I have not been able to jump ahead of opponents like you seem to be. My offense, when not aided by Vial, has been slow. This is the reason I liked Vision over Standstill. I never seem to be ahead until I have the card count to pull it off. Reejerey has been stellar for me, but you don't seem to like it. He lets me explode after I have disrupted the opponent fr a few turns. This doesn't add up.
    Well, I did not have to face Managara or grim lavamancer in my testing but they can simply be Forced (Mangara is often followed by vial, but vial needs absolutely to be Forced if you can) or stifled (Karakas or the 3/2 flying bouncer in the exemple of Mangara).

    Dark confidant is really not a problem. Why ? Because I play them myself, because it hurts my opponent, because standstill does quite the same (no attack but no life loss) without being "removable".

    I agree about Reejerey, I went down to 2 and at some point I noticed that I could play as many merfolk as I wanted as soon as I had 2 Reejerey into play and that's very good in order to win 1 turn after my opponent cracks the standstill. It can also remove a blocker and helps the alpha strike almost as much as the lord. Right now I'm at 3 and the deck performs very well (close to 100%) against the non-gob random decks I encounter on MWS. I still have the 4th Reejerey in SB and I enter it almost at each game 2, for several reasons : either I don't need to transform my oppoenent's lands into islands because he already plays some or I can't afford to play seasinger with only 4 lands transformer (which I keep in for alpha strikes with lord). Another reason is that the +1/+1 boost is very important on game 2 when pyroclam and engineered plagues show up.

    The main painful creatures seem to be the utility ones with a small body in the order :
    - lackey
    - grim lavamancer
    - mangara (even if it requires a lot of things : karakas, vial and no stifle in my hand)
    - dark confidant, even if I had never real troubles with him

    Vendetta could be good at dealing with that or maybe a charm (Piracy Charm which is very versatile, even quite good against combo).

    Has anyone tried Mask of Memory.
    I did not. The fact is that our creatures are not that often unblockable. I usually wait late turns to alpha strike. I really think that standstill is better though.

    Half the deck consists of tribal synergies, meaning we want to run as many playable merfolk as possible.

    The other half, apart from the obligatory Forces, consists of Mana Denial from Hell. Wasteland, Port, Stifle and Reef Shaman all in one deck is downright cruel. Daze is a Sinkhole you don't have to pay for if your opponent tries to play around it, and an efficient catch-all answer if they don't.

    Sure, it would be possible to make room for Jittes, a 2+2 Countertop, Standstills, removal or whatever... but at the expense of the things that make the deck work in the first place. If we wanted those techs, I feel this is the wrong shell.
    I removed the half of mana denial in order to make card advantage (confidant + standstill) and keep MD answers to combo (FoW + Stifle). The rest is brainstorm + tribal.

    I think you have to use Umezawa's Jitte, it's the only card that really puts you over the top against other aggro decks, and it's just god damn brutal against aggro-control and control.
    It's usually too slow against aggro decks that matter (Gob) because it is going to deal with your creatures and your mana base as you are building your jitte-wearer. Against aggro-control it is simply not needed because it is already a piece of cake. Give me your goyf / Let me draw 3 is too much for them. Their only threat is counterbalance but it's negated by a first turn vial. Against control and combo jitte sucks.

    I'd just like to add that this list top8ed Ancient Memory Convention No. 29 Legacy Tournament Akihabara, Japan October 28, 2007
    I don't want to look too pretentious but I really think that your list could be by far optimized. As well as most of the decks that did top8.

    I have seen on a french site that you won the MU against Life-combo (Daru + en-kor + diamond valley) and it is very surprising to me.

    Waterfront Bouncer
    I really want to try him since a long time but I never did and one have to admit that it's awful against gob and according to my testing gob is really the number 1 predator of the deck.

  3. #63

    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    Thats not my decklist, I just found it here in the Historical Top8s Thread in DTB Section. And I'd love to read that site.
    Last edited by Cyrus; 10-30-2007 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Asking for the site

  4. #64
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    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    So I have been practicing some. I notice myself holding my beaters until I am reasonably certain I can resolve one (I have seen FoW once and I have a fourth mana, for example) if I don't have a vial. Until that point I tend to leave mana open for Stifle, Brainstorm, Port, whatever - rather than commit all my mana to something Like Reejerey.

    Question: Is this a holdover from my days of counterspell ph3ar or is it smart playing against Threshold?

  5. #65
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    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    I finally decided myself to make a report of the Tournament I did last week end. I finished 10th on something like 45-50 persons with a record of 4-2. I could be upset with this average performance but I completely messed up in a game that I should have won and therefore go for a third game that I would maybe have won, and I did not face the best deck of the moment which is also the most played and which is also my best MU.

    First, my list :
    // Lands
    3 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [B] Island (2)
    3 [ON] Polluted Delta
    4 [A] Underground Sea
    2 [R] Tropical Island
    4 [TE] Wasteland
    4 [MM] Rishadan Port

    // Creatures
    3 [FE] Seasinger
    4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
    4 [TSB] Lord of Atlantis
    4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
    4 [LOR] Silvergill Adept
    4 [LOR] Merrow Reejerey

    // Spells
    4 [DS] AEther Vial
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [NE] Daze
    4 [LOR] Aquitect's Will

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [FE] Seasinger
    SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague
    SB: 4 [SC] Stifle
    SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    SB: 3 [US] Planar Void

    If the shop organizing the tourney had an additional planar void, I would have run no seasinger in SB and 4 Planar Void (I did my testing with 4 propaganda in SB instead of planar void). Aside from this, I played the deck I wanted to.

    Yes, I know, I splashed for Tarmogoyf, should I call my deck dark merfolgoyf ? The black splash is more for the SB options than for dark confidant which is fair, or even very good but standstill would be great too in its place. My curve is very bad (only vial castable on first turn). I don't know what to do. I really think that aquitect's will is better than any 1CC merfolk creature, and playing seasinger with no way to transform an opponent's land into an island looks stupid. The rest of the slots are just impossible to remove.

    About the MUs I tested alone with 2 instances of MWS, first the good one against Ugw threshold with MD explosives, stifle, coutnertop and Threads but nothing really relevant in SB except additional copies of threads and counterbalance (no needle for instance). It's not a list I built myself for the testing. It's a list that performed quite well in a recent tourney in France. Here are the results, I hope it's going to be readable :

    ................I play............I draw...............%
    preside....8.........2........8..........6..........68,57%
    postside...9........1.........4.........5
    Total.......17.......3........12........11.........77,33%

    77.33% is the probability that I win the 2/3 match, according to. I call it very positive MU.
    My SB against Thresh is -4 aquitect's will +4 stifle. Not crazy neither but it's one more mana denial, which is important in order to protect ourselves from threads, explosives and countertop combo (countertop combo with no mana to activate top is not great...).

    But the gob MU is very very bad. So bad, that I did not finish it in order to have real statistics. Something like 25%, even with all the hate in the world... Propaganda was just useless. Plague is good only when 2 of them are in play, which does not happen often, not mentionning the lackey to which my only solution are my free counterspells.

    Let's go to the match.

    Round1 :
    Valendir with Solidarity. I'm pissed off. I feel like I have only very few answers. I know that counterspells are very limited against solidarity.
    But I'm lucky, I go aggro and I kill twice turn 5 or 6 with free counterspell backup in order to trouble the drawing; I daze impulse as soon as I can and I keep FoW to refuse the meditates. I side out 3*seasinger+1*wasteland for 4 Stifle that I will not find.

    We make a thrid game for the fun, I continue winning.

    2/0

    1/0/0

    Round2 :
    I play Mouarf with Terrageddon. The first game pissed me off because I found 4 non mana providers on 15 cards. This kind of draw can be profitable sometimes but clearly not against terrageddon that has a Life From the Loam in his opening hand.
    I enter planar void*3 and stifle*4 (he plays deed) against daze*4 et Tarmo*3 I think (it's a first mistake: do never side out your tarmogoyfs). I can play planar void and seasinger and to transform one of his lands into an island (in addition to its other types). I targetted his bayou because it was his only black provider and I was afraid that he would wastehimself his land. I can steal a 3/4 tarmogoyf that will be stuck at that because of planar void. I think I have the game with a backup of 2 FoW + stifle in hand. And I start doing everything wrong, I don't rishadan port his only black ressource and after having Forced a deed (instead of stifling it), I have to force a STP. Then he finds a vindicate for my seasinger and that seals the game against me. The biggest misplay was that my stifle finally served to negate a maze effect although I had a wasteland into play and still my port that I never used. Retrospectively, I think that I did not use my mana denial because I wanted to hard cast my Forces, which I never succeeded to do. I have a lot of regrets.

    0/2

    1/0/1

    Round3 :
    I play against Benjamin playing Burn
    My testing was quite positive and it continued to be. It was tight twice but rishadan port gave me the game each time. I finish at 4 LP the first and 6 the second.
    I sided out 3*seasinger for 3*jitte that I never found.

    He looked surprised to lose and he wanted to do another one that I won once more.

    2/0

    2/0/1

    Round4 :
    I play against Alexandre who is a newbie that plays a well built goblin that he borrowed to somebody. He does not know the deck and he's not helped by the asian pimp of the deck. I have to explain him what his cards do. He did not realise so far that gempalm made him draw... And even if I told him, he countinued forgetting drawing. I lose very fast the 2 games and he finishes twice @ 18 life points. Fetches probably.
    My Sbing:
    -4 aquitect's will or -4 Daze (can't remember, will is good for tarmogoyf)
    -3 Seasinger
    -4 FoW
    +4 Stifle
    +4 plagues
    +3 Jitte
    I will only find stifle.

    0/2

    2/0/2

    Round5 :
    I play against a random combo slivoid. I have never been worried. He can't win against counterspells and I doubt that he could combo even if I played only the aggro mode.
    I side out 3*seasinger (he plays islands, but crystallin makes them useless), 4*aquitect's will for 4*plagues andt 3*jitte. I find double plague for the win.

    He wants to play a third game in order to show me his combo. I side out and my seasinger do the job alone (funny to play seasinger with intruder alarm into play)

    2/0

    3/0/2

    Round6 :
    I play against Ichorid.

    I lose the first but I win the next, thanks to FoW on Dread Returns, a kill turn 5 and bad luck from ichorid. I win the first game thanks to jitte making bridges useless and engineered plague on ichorid. Bad dredge once more from Ichorid.

    My SB : -3 seasinger, -4 daze and -3 vials for 3*jitte, 3*planar void and 4*plague

    2/1

    4/0/2

    My seasinger were sided out 5 times on 6 games. That's quite impressive. Sometimes I wonder if jitte would not be better MD.

  6. #66
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    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    Mav, I have been thinking about putting all of the Seasingers in the sb. I just seem to be attacking with a pumped 0/1 for UU1 far, far more often than actually stealing creatures. This move also frees up a number of slots partially devoted to supporting them. Reef Shaman has been somewhat lacking as well, and I already have Tidal Warriors in my board. I know what you would use in their stead, but I am still going for monoblue. What do you think?

  7. #67

    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    For the Aggro match-up, a 4cc card is slow but perhaps can help with your theme.

    Floodgate
    Color= Blue Type= Creature - Wall Cost= 3U MI(U)
    Text (MI+errata): 0/5, Defender. ; When ~this~ gains flying, sacrifice it. ; When ~this~ leaves play, it deals 1 damage for each two Islands you control to each nonblue creature without flying. [Oracle 2005/08/01]

    Really slow in Legacy... :S

    For the mana denial aspect and some island made tech:

    Quicksilver Fountain
    Color= Artifact Type= Artifact Cost= 3 MR(R)
    Text (MR+errata): At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player puts a flood counter on target non-Island land he or she controls of his or her choice. That land is an Island as long as it has a flood counter on it. ; At end of turn, if all lands in play are Islands, remove all flood counters from them. [WotC Rules Team 2003/10/06]
    * If this card leaves play, the flood counters continue to make the lands be Islands until they are removed. [Mirrodin FAQ 2003/10/01]

    A bit slow... will break port use, but continue is work until the opponent got no mana for a complete turn.

    Blue Removal:
    Pongify
    Color= Blue Type= Instant Cost= U PC(U)
    Text (PC): Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated. That creature's controller puts a 3/3 green Ape creature token into play.

    Good for key cards, but counterspelling is better...

    Siren's Call
    Color= Blue Type= Instant Cost= U A(U)/B(U)/U(U)/R(U)/4(U)
    Text (4th+errata): Play ~this~ only during an opponent's turn and only before attackers are declared. ; Creatures the active player controls attack this turn if able. ; At end of turn, destroy all non-Wall creatures that player controls that didn't attack this turn. Ignore this effect for each creature the player didn't control continuously since the beginning of the turn. [Oracle 2007/07/13]
    * Only creatures in play when the spell is resolved are affected. This means that any creatures which come into play after this spell is resolved are not affected. [bethmo 1994/06/01]
    * The creature is destroyed if it does not attack because it simply cannot do so legally. For example, a Sea Serpent will be destroyed if it cannot attack because the opponent has no islands. [Aahz 1994/06/01]
    * You can use this effect on a creature you know won't be able to attack. For example, you can use it on a tapped creature. [Aahz 1994/06/01]
    * It will require creatures with Haste (see Rule 502.5) to attack since they are able, but it won't destroy them if they don't for some reason. [DeLaney 2000/03/14]
    * Extended tournaments (see Rule 803) have banned this card since 1999/10/01.
    * Note - Also see Must Attack, Rule 500.2.

    Old school nightmare with propaganda it's really nice.

    Winter's Chill
    Color= Blue Type= Instant Cost= XU IA(R)
    Text (IA+errata): Play ~this~ only during combat before the declare blockers step. ; X can't be greater than the number of snow lands you control. ; Destroy X target attacking creatures at end of combat. For each attacking creature, its controller may pay {1} or {2} to prevent this effect. If that player pays only {1} for that creature, prevent all combat damage that would be dealt to and dealt by that creature this turn. [Oracle 2006/07/14]
    * The payments are made when the spell resolves. The three options are: pay {2} to let creature act as normal, pay {1} to have creature neither deal or receive damage, or pay nothing and the creature does deal and receive damage but it will be destroyed at end of combat. [D'Angelo 2000/03/09]
    * Note - Also see X Costs, Rule G24.1.


    Or you could consider something more important but could give some nice removal:

    Any change color text and having spells like hydroblast.

    Changing Color:
    Alter Reality
    Color= Blue Type= Instant Cost= 1U TO(R)
    Text (TO): Flashback {1}{U}. ; Change the text of target permanent or spell by replacing all instances of one color word with another. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

    Mind Bend
    Color= Blue Type= Instant Cost= U MI(U)/8(R)/9(R)/10(R)
    Text (9th/10): Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one color word with another or one basic land type with another. (For example, you may change "nonblack creature" to "nongreen creature" or "forestwalk" to "plainswalk." This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

    (nice with lord of atlantis - islandwalk to plainswalk?)

    Whim of Volrath
    Color= Blue Type= Instant Cost= U TE(R)
    Text (TE+errata): Buyback {2}. ; Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one color word or basic land type with another until end of turn. (For example, you may change "nonred creature" to "nongreen creature" or "plainswalk" to "swampwalk".) [Oracle 1999/07/21]

    buyback tech

    Or something that change the state of the card target with hydroblast:
    Tidal Visionary
    Color= Blue Type= Creature - Merfolk Wizard Cost= U IN(C)
    Text (IN): 1/1. ; {Tap}: Target creature becomes the color of your choice until end of turn.

    More tech with that:
    Vodalian Mystic
    Color= Blue Type= Creature - Merfolk Wizard Cost= 1U AP(U)
    Text (AP): 1/1. ; {Tap}: Target instant or sorcery spell becomes the color of your choice.

    =======================

    Destroy:

    Blue Elemental Blast
    Color= Blue Type= Instant Cost= U A(C)/B(C)/U(C)/R(C)/4(C)
    Text (4th+errata): Choose one - Counter target red spell; or destroy target red permanent. [Oracle 1999/09/03]

    Flash Flood
    Color= Blue Type= Instant Cost= U LG(C2)/CH(C3)
    Text (CH+errata): Choose one - Destroy target red permanent; or return target Mountain to its owner's hand. [Oracle 2003/07/01]

    Hydroblast
    Color= Blue Type= Instant Cost= U IA(C)/5(U)
    Text (5th+errata): Choose one - Counter target spell if it's red; or destroy target permanent if it's red.

    More tech:

    Douse

    Color= Blue Type= Enchantment Cost= 2U US(U)
    Text (US+errata): {1}{U}: Counter target red spell. [Oracle 1999/05/01]
    Mana Denial

    Chill

    Color= Blue Type= Enchantment Cost= 1U TE(U)/6(U)
    Text (6th): Red spells cost {2} more to play.

    ========================================================

    I guess all those suggestions are subpar to legacy. Perhaps the changing of color state with the merfolk and some buyback tech could be nice, but would take at least 12 to 16 slots to be effective and more 20 for consistencies.

    With all the Bloodmoon effect, Back to Basic effect.... splashing with wasteland + port is problematic. Dragon Stompy should be hard here.

    Jourdelune

  8. #68
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    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    As hoped, Wizards came through with a good contender for this deck.

    Stonybrook Bannaret

    Creature - Merfolk Wizard
    Islandwalk
    Merfolk and Wizard spells you play cost less to play.
    #51/150
    1/1

    We had been looking for pretty much exactly this card. I'm not sure precisely what this means, but it certainly speeds the deck up without really losing anything. Between him and Merrow Reejerey, I am seeing the possibility for quite a bit of mana production. Some of the Merfolk could be essentially free, making for even more explosive turns. I just don't know yet what avenues that opens for the deck.

    Critters
    4 Silvergill Adept
    4 Lord of Atlantis
    4 Merrow Reejerey
    4 Stonybrook Bannaret
    4 Tidal Warrior

    Other blue stuff
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    3 Stifle
    4 Brainstorm

    Artifacts
    4 Aether Vial

    Land
    4 Rishidan Port
    4 Wasteland
    6 Island
    3 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand

    SB
    1 Stifle
    3 Propaganda
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    4 Repeal
    3 Seasinger
    Last edited by Finn; 01-03-2008 at 03:49 PM.

  9. #69

    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    How about this one, it looks like a good creature, but is the ability really good enough to play him?


    Rare
    Creature - Merfolk Rogue
    Whenever Grimoire Thief becomes tapped, remove the top three cards of target opponent's library from the game facedown.
    You may look at cards removed from the game with Grimoire Thief.
    , Sacrifice Grimoire Thief: Turn all cards removed from the game with Grimoire Thief face up. Counter all spells with those names.
    2/2

  10. #70
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    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    Wow that looks extremely strong. I think that will make a four of. You will easily remove alot of cards and the fact that you can counter a spell for 1 mana is great.
    Call me Ishmael

  11. #71

    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    Hmmm I don't know. I was very enthousiastic at first with him too (there are not so much playable merfolks), but after all I think he's not that great. The fact that he needs to attack 2 or 3 times before he can even have a chance to do anything kind of sucks. I see him as a bad voidmage prodigy with a cheaper activation cost. Plus he doesn't give any tribal synergies.

  12. #72

    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    That was the problem I had when I saw him too. First glance he looks great, but then you realize he needs to attack, or is there another way for him to tap him without attacking? But he is a merfolk after all, so maybe 2 or 3 could get into the deck. But the casting cost is making Stonybrook Bannaret a lot less good.

  13. #73
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    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    Bannaret is bad for merfolks. The only good thing about him is islandwalk that is just fine if you play Umezawa's Jitte.

    Grimoire Thief is awful. If there was no sacrifice, and a cost of %1 or %2 (as it was first revealed), it would have been worth trying. However, even with this enhanced abilities the %U %U cost and the attack needed would certainly have made him only a SB card. And even for thatm I was very skeptical.

  14. #74
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    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    Bannaret is bad for merfolks. The only good thing about him is islandwalk that is just fine if you play Umezawa's Jitte.
    So an extra cheap warchief is bad??? Maverick, I have played this guy and he is quite good. I don't know what you are talking about.

    BTW, if you areserious about using the Grimoire Thief, the deck already has a way to tap him sans attacking: Merrow Reejerey.

    I still don't like the card though.

  15. #75

    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    Quote Originally Posted by Akasha View Post
    or is there another way for him to tap him without attacking? But he is a merfolk after all, so maybe 2 or 3 could get into the deck.
    With Reejerey, for example.

  16. #76
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    Re: [Deck] Triton's Minions

    I always have something clever to do with reejerey triggered ability. Taping out our own creatures is not tech. Moreover, the trigger from the play of thief cannot tap the thief as soon as it comes into play (the triggered abilities are put on the stack after the spell itself, which means that they resolve before the spell).

    Finn, I understand what you say, but a 1/1 for 2 is not aggro, and half the merfolks you play have no colourless cost. Warchief is good in gobs for the following reasons:
    - some interesting gobs in late game have at least 1 (only pilly and sometimes tutorable slots) colourless mana in their cost, more often 2 (matron, gempalm if you want to cast it andmost of the tutorable slots) and quite often 3 too (ringleader + SGC + tutorable slots).
    - the best is to combine it with matron. But in merfolk we do not have matron.
    - the tribality is far superior in gob than in merfolk (at least mine).

    All in one, I don't even have to test it in my list.

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