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Thread: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

  1. #61
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Dxfiler View Post
    Kataki reads: Pay 1 for your top or put it on your library every turn

    That's the main reason why he's maindeck, and for that purpose he's been great. About 60% of the decks in my area use top. Plus if you run into affinity randomly, he's your best shot at taking game 1.
    As I said, Goblin Piker + Rishadan Port is not bad.

    But does it really compare favourably to, oh, let's say Blood/Silver Knight (16-17 sources of each colour should be plenty, especially since turn 2 Wastelands are usually sacrificed on the spot)? Immune from a whole category of removal, doesn't get traded with by random dorks, and you can even swing it into Tarmogoyf and Tombstalker if you are decent at bluffing Bolts?
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil Credo View Post
    As I said, Goblin Piker + Rishadan Port is not bad.

    But does it really compare favourably to, oh, let's say Blood/Silver Knight (16-17 sources of each colour should be plenty, especially since turn 2 Wastelands are usually sacrificed on the spot)? Immune from a whole category of removal, doesn't get traded with by random dorks, and you can even swing it into Tarmogoyf and Tombstalker if you are decent at bluffing Bolts?
    Silver knight is a great card. It's what would be in the deck if I didn't maindeck Kami. But I don't think it should ever take the spot of Kataki. The double white can actually be an issue and given that many people run top, yes i'm fine with goblin piker + rishadan port. If goblin piker had port's ability tacked on you'd play it in RDW, right? I know I would.

    Silver knight really is great though. I want to play it but again I'm more comfortable with kami right now given my meta and I do feel Kataki is superior to him maindeck.

    As for sideboard I cannot picture a universe where I'd run Silver Knight over Burrenton forge Tender, so for right now Silver is completely out of my version.

    If enchantments die down, then he could very well make it back into the main.

    - Dave

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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Why play Burrenton Forge Tender over MoR?
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  4. #64
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by raharu View Post
    Why play Burrenton Forge Tender over MoR?
    Probably because it can carry a Jitte all day against burn and goblins. However, I don't like it too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape, TrialByFire, Silverdragon mix
    We got Goyf Threshold, Deadgoyf Ale, Survival of the Goyfest and Goyfalid Breakfast.
    It probably won't end until we have decks like Goyf Stax, Goyfbelcher, Goyfchantress, Vial Goyflins, Goyfstill, Goyf from the Loam, Faergoyf Stompy, Goyf-Pox, Goyf Confinement, 8-Land Goyfstompy, and the Dave Gearhart classic, Goyfidarity.
    And Ichgoyfrid, Red Deadgoyf, GES, 42landand4goyf.dec, Goyf Game and Ill-Gotten-Goyf-y Pop
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  5. #65
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    I'm guessing Mor is Mother of Runes.

    Burrenton is at the stage right now where he's just under-appreciated. I've played him in multiple formats and trust me when I say white hasn't had a color hoser this good in years.

    I've been on the giving and receiving end of the card multiple times and it's an absolute beating against red. If you drop it against Goblins turn 1 you've shut down any offense they can muster for at least the first two turns, if not three. If things gets out of hand it acts as a nice fog against a giant piledriver while blocking something else. And yes if you get Jitte on it then you win the game.

    It doesn't just stop red either. Dreadstill/Survival like to be cute and board in firespout/pyroclasm. When I had tender in my UW fish board I would actively side into it and take out lions. Now getting your board cleared is a little less painful in RW because the creatures are more expendable, but it's still nice to keep your 2 power beaters on the board. Not to mention it can save figure before you've turned it into a 4/4.

    Burrenton Forge-Tender is just one of those cards that will be given alot more respect the older it gets. It's still a new card so people don't immediately look to it, but it is the single best hoser against red that you have access to and it's good in a multitude of matches, including the mirror.

    I can see why people might not like Kataki or Kami of ancient Law, but not liking Burrenton blows my mind. All I can say is sideboard it and you'll probably change your mind.

    - Dave

  6. #66

    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Have any of you tried Sunforger?
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush View Post
    Have any of you tried Sunforger?
    Really, what do you want it to do?

    It costs 6WR to tutor up and cheat a spell into play and simply 6 to power up your creature.

    That is definately not for this build. You might try another build, but this deck can - as far as I know - not support that mana intensive cards.
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  8. #68
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Dxfiler: Why don't you play Grim Lavamancer? I'd cut down on the Grunts for it (of course I've never ever found Jotun Grunt to be that spectacular, even in Fish). Also, in a less artifact-oriented metagame, would you find a creature base like this one reasonable? (note the pared down Grunts and 4x 'mancers, which I would think a personal choice).

    // Creatures: 23
    4 Mogg Fanatic
    4 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
    2 Jotun Grunt
    3 Silver Knight
    3 Figure of Destiny
    4 Ronom Unicorn (No reason not to run it. It's a Seal of Cleansing on legs, worst comes to worst it swings and blocks)

    EDIT: Sunforger answers Counterbalance and is remarkably annoying/ backbreaking in a more mid range deck.
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    Mother of Runes is a woefully underplayed Tier 1 card.
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    Power wouldn't lay in the hands of the few if the general population was more educated and actually voted. Why should the government care about you if you don't vote? (Partially why I hate the electoral college and 2-party system)

  9. #69
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by raharu View Post
    would you find a creature base like this one reasonable?

    // Creatures: 23
    4 Mogg Fanatic
    4 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
    2 Jotun Grunt
    3 Silver Knight
    3 Figure of Destiny
    4 Ronom Unicorn (No reason not to run it. It's a Seal of Cleansing on legs, worst comes to worst it swings and blocks)
    This is my view on it.
    2 Jotun Grunt - I'm thinking about running 2 or 0 in a 4 Lavamancers deck. 2 is ok.

    3 Silver Knight - Why do you want those? Goblins is not widely played as it was, and STP is the most common creature removal in the format. I'd play Blood Knight all day over it, but I'd probably play Goblin Legionnaire over both. First strike is not so relevant in this format cause you have small critters. Yeah, it can kill a Goyf with an added bolt going 1for1 against the biggest creature in the format, but if they counter the bolt it's a 2x1 for them. Against control and combo Legionnaire is better IMO.

    3 Figure of Destiny - I'm not sure about hat number. usually Boros decks needs 6-8 2 Power drops on Turn 1. Right now your deck has 6. I'd probably go with 4 Figure of destiny, especially if you're running <2 Fireblast.

    4 Ronom Unicorn - It's not a seal of cleansing cause it can't deal with artifacts. It's also a 2CC drop, so it can't deal with Counterbalance unless you already have it into play and the opponent doesn't remove it before dropping CB. That's why you're playing 4: you want it to land before the opponent's CB.
    Did you test Duergar Hedge-Mage?
    Pros:
    - You don't have to sacrifice it to take away those pesky cards.
    - It's a 3cc drop, so counterbalance doesn't deal with it.
    - It takes care of artifacts too. I know that artifacts are not the main problem in your meta, but I guess that there are some landstill (takes EE when they're tapped out), Goblins (Vial), Threshold (Takes both CB and they must flip SDT on the top. EE too). And sometimes you can encounter a Dreadought, a Ravager, a Jitte, a Vedalken Shackles, a Chalice of the void and you'll thank him.
    - Since you don't need it before they land CB, you can play just 2/3, freeing some space in the deck for more aggro-cards.

    Cons:
    - It can't destroy enchantments at instant speed
    - You have to wait in playing it until the opponent landed its disruption piece.
    - It's 3cc so it's not huge as an aggro piece.

    This is what I'd play with 23 critters in your meta:
    4 Goblin Legionnaire
    4 Mogg Fanatic
    4 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
    4 Figure of Destiny
    1/2 Jotun Grunt
    3/2 Duergar Hedge Mage
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape, TrialByFire, Silverdragon mix
    We got Goyf Threshold, Deadgoyf Ale, Survival of the Goyfest and Goyfalid Breakfast.
    It probably won't end until we have decks like Goyf Stax, Goyfbelcher, Goyfchantress, Vial Goyflins, Goyfstill, Goyf from the Loam, Faergoyf Stompy, Goyf-Pox, Goyf Confinement, 8-Land Goyfstompy, and the Dave Gearhart classic, Goyfidarity.
    And Ichgoyfrid, Red Deadgoyf, GES, 42landand4goyf.dec, Goyf Game and Ill-Gotten-Goyf-y Pop
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    Current Record: 1-83-2

  10. #70
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Silver Knight: well, Pyroclasm is no fun, and it's always good to have some sweeper protection, I presume. StP may be more relevant, but one piece of spot-removal that will hit something else anyway isn't as threatening as a sweeper that will likely kill the whole team. ofc, Pyroclasm isn't that present in the average metagame, but where I play, 5c thresh w/ PyroK, Dryad Sligh w/ PyroK (most annoying match ever), and smallguy agro/ elves (which make First Strike relevant) are fairly present. That, and I've never liked Goblin Legionnaire. The meta is fairly casual, to say the least.

    The Figure/ Isamaru split: I've always liked 4x Isamaru in decks of this style because, as a smaller creature, they're expendable by nature, so you're not likely to have a duplicate in hand. It also seems like the Legendary rule keeps you from over-extending in most situations, but that's not really a relevant note. FoD seems like you would only want one in the early game, and want to put mana into it in the mid/ late game where you wouldn't really have mana to spend on another Figure (because you would rather be doing other, more relevant things), so I'd play 3. ofc, maybe 4 Isamaru is wrong and 4 Figure is preferable.

    Unicorn Vs. Hedge-Mage: I like Hedge-Mage more, but Unicorn is more aggressive and a less-dead feeling card in the absence of a CB. Perhaps Mages in the place of SB O-Rings, iDunno. In the main, though, Unicorn feels... right. Not better, but more aggressive.

    Would it slow the deck down too much to play 'Jitte in the main?
    Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?

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    Mother of Runes is a woefully underplayed Tier 1 card.
    Quote Originally Posted by dude 666 View Post
    Power wouldn't lay in the hands of the few if the general population was more educated and actually voted. Why should the government care about you if you don't vote? (Partially why I hate the electoral college and 2-party system)

  11. #71

    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by raharu View Post
    Unicorn Vs. Hedge-Mage: I like Hedge-Mage more, but Unicorn is more aggressive and a less-dead feeling card in the absence of a CB. Perhaps Mages in the place of SB O-Rings, iDunno. In the main, though, Unicorn feels... right. Not better, but more aggressive.
    I played a Boros Deck Wins at the German Legacy Championship (dropped after 7 rounds). For the tournament I had 2 Duergar Hedge-Mages in the main and I've been very happy with them as they were rarely just acting as a vanilla. Several times I got double hits as well (e.g. Counterbalance/Top, Seismic Assault/Mox D., SurvivalotF/Vial). So I'd advocate to at least play 2 in the main and 2 more in the sideboard. It's usually out of reach of Counterbalance and Chalice which is a benefit as well.

  12. #72

    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    i have an interesting list let me know what you think.

    Creatures:
    3 hound of konda
    3 grim lavamancer
    3 figure of destiny
    4 dark confidant
    4 tarmogoyf
    4 goblin legionnaire
    3 mogg fanatic

    Spells:
    4 lightning bolt
    4 chain lightining
    3 fire blast
    4 lightning helix

    Lands:
    4 plateau
    2 sacred foundry
    2 taiga
    2 badlands
    4 wooded foothills
    4 bloodstained mire
    2 windswept heath
    1 mountain

    Sideboard:
    4 orim's chant
    4 shattering spree
    4 honorable passage
    3 krosan grip
    -go team "get there"-

  13. #73
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    lol 4c? Interesting. Erm... Enjoy your wasteland?

    On a more constructive note, why don't you pla Chrome Mox? Actually, that looks like dark 3duce. Not exactly Boros, but hay, why not. What are the Honorable Passages for? Red isn't super-relevant, so why not invest the extra mana for Boros Fury-Shield? It makes the OPs Tarmogoyfs better for you, at least and is relevant against Dreadnought, Tombstalker, other non-red threats.

    Why no Thoughtseizes in the Sideboard? Seems like they'd be solid against combo, perhaps in the Passage slot, considering that looks rather narrow and underpowered.
    Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?

    If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil View Post
    Mother of Runes is a woefully underplayed Tier 1 card.
    Quote Originally Posted by dude 666 View Post
    Power wouldn't lay in the hands of the few if the general population was more educated and actually voted. Why should the government care about you if you don't vote? (Partially why I hate the electoral college and 2-party system)

  14. #74
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalDragon09 View Post
    i have an interesting list let me know what you think.

    Creatures:
    3 hound of konda
    3 grim lavamancer
    3 figure of destiny
    4 dark confidant
    4 tarmogoyf
    4 goblin legionnaire
    3 mogg fanatic

    Spells:
    4 lightning bolt
    4 chain lightining
    3 fire blast
    4 lightning helix

    Lands:
    4 plateau
    2 sacred foundry
    2 taiga
    2 badlands
    4 wooded foothills
    4 bloodstained mire
    2 windswept heath
    1 mountain

    Sideboard:
    4 orim's chant
    4 shattering spree
    4 honorable passage
    3 krosan grip
    If you're playing that many colors, you probably want to play something like Domain Zoo, that leads to an entirely different deck and thread: this one

    Here's my decklist of domain zoo, for reference, but don't let the discussion go away from the boros decklists here.

    // Lands
    3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
    4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    4 [ON] Windswept Heath
    2 [A] Taiga
    1 [U] Badlands
    1 [B] Savannah
    2 [A] Plateau
    2 [B] Scrubland
    1 [A] Bayou
    1 [B] Volcanic Island

    // Creatures
    4 [9E] Kird Ape
    4 [CHK] Isamaru, Hound of Konda
    4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
    4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
    4 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
    3 [EX] Skyshroud Elite

    // Spells
    4 [B] Lightning Bolt
    4 [RAV] Lightning Helix
    4 [TSB] Tribal Flames
    2 [LG] Chain Lightning
    2 [AP] Vindicate

    // Sideboard
    SB: 2 [AP] Vindicate
    SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
    SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
    SB: 3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
    SB: 1 [TSP] Krosan Grip
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape, TrialByFire, Silverdragon mix
    We got Goyf Threshold, Deadgoyf Ale, Survival of the Goyfest and Goyfalid Breakfast.
    It probably won't end until we have decks like Goyf Stax, Goyfbelcher, Goyfchantress, Vial Goyflins, Goyfstill, Goyf from the Loam, Faergoyf Stompy, Goyf-Pox, Goyf Confinement, 8-Land Goyfstompy, and the Dave Gearhart classic, Goyfidarity.
    And Ichgoyfrid, Red Deadgoyf, GES, 42landand4goyf.dec, Goyf Game and Ill-Gotten-Goyf-y Pop
    Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
    Current Record: 1-83-2

  15. #75

    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Hello.

    I'm trying to get into Legacy more, and took the Boros Decklist from the GenCon Legacy Top 2

    http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=19270

    I had most of the cards, and it appeared to be a easier deck to pilot, so it felt right to try out in an unknown field (for me... most Legacy is).

    I was a bit underwhelmed with Price of Progress. It felt like most of the competent opponents were able to play around it. It was sided out a lot.

    Lavamancer and Jotun Grunt kept stepping on each other - I feel that the Lavamancer was more effective most of the time. Even against Tarmogoyf the Grunt wasn't amazing.

    I mulliganned more that I would have hoped, with the low land count (20 land) - and felt that the lost a lot of power when going down in cards. Wasteland also usually hit me very hard - making me wish I had at least 1 more land.

    Is Pyrokinesis a sideboard card just vs. Goblins? I keep feeling that Engineered Explosives would be a better card in that spot.

    Would you board in Shusher vs. Counterbalance?

    Thanks for any thoughts...

  16. #76

    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Have any of you tried Sunforger in your decks?
    Team PGK (Psychopathic Garbage Kids)

  17. #77

    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    I don't see how Sunforger could be useful. It's cost, equip, and ability take too much resources to setup. It has to be attached to a creature to work, and the creatures are not that resilient.

  18. #78
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush View Post
    Have any of you tried Sunforger in your decks?
    Why would anybody in their right mind use a card that costs at least 6 mana before doing anything? If you want equipment, play Jitte, it's just better.

  19. #79
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    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by mhinsz View Post
    I was a bit underwhelmed with Price of Progress. It felt like most of the competent opponents were able to play around it. It was sided out a lot.
    It depends on which decks did you encounter. If all you faced was 8 lands stompy, MUC, death and taxes and the like you're right. But the DTBs have usually a real low number of basics (aggroloam, Thrashold, Landstill, etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by mhinsz View Post
    Lavamancer and Jotun Grunt kept stepping on each other - I feel that the Lavamancer was more effective most of the time. Even against Tarmogoyf the Grunt wasn't amazing.
    Sometimes it's amazing against threshed mongeese, sometimes it's huge against ichorid, sometimes it plain sucks. I'm currently playing 1-2 maindeck with the others SB. Lavamancer needs to be 4x imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhinsz View Post
    I mulliganned more that I would have hoped, with the low land count (20 land) - and felt that the lost a lot of power when going down in cards. Wasteland also usually hit me very hard - making me wish I had at least 1 more land.
    21 Lands is good if you're playing Figure of Destiny (cut those Savannah Lions..). You'll never have spare mana and halps against overextending.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhinsz View Post
    Is Pyrokinesis a sideboard card just vs. Goblins? I keep feeling that Engineered Explosives would be a better card in that spot.
    Yeah, it's only against gobbosand belcher. You can play Jitte in this spot too. Engineered explosives is a bit mana intensive to be useful and hurts you a lot too. I'm playing duergar hedge-mage in this spot and I'm really happy with him (look the discussion some posts above).

    Quote Originally Posted by mhinsz View Post
    Would you board in Shusher vs. Counterbalance?
    Yeah. I'm playing Hedge-Mage against it and you're playing Shusher. That's probably the only matchup where it's really useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape, TrialByFire, Silverdragon mix
    We got Goyf Threshold, Deadgoyf Ale, Survival of the Goyfest and Goyfalid Breakfast.
    It probably won't end until we have decks like Goyf Stax, Goyfbelcher, Goyfchantress, Vial Goyflins, Goyfstill, Goyf from the Loam, Faergoyf Stompy, Goyf-Pox, Goyf Confinement, 8-Land Goyfstompy, and the Dave Gearhart classic, Goyfidarity.
    And Ichgoyfrid, Red Deadgoyf, GES, 42landand4goyf.dec, Goyf Game and Ill-Gotten-Goyf-y Pop
    Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
    Current Record: 1-83-2

  20. #80

    Re: [Deck] Boros Deck Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by mhinsz View Post
    I mulliganned more that I would have hoped, with the low land count (20 land) - and felt that the lost a lot of power when going down in cards. Wasteland also usually hit me very hard - making me wish I had at least 1 more land.
    20 lands should be more than sufficient IMO. Why did you have problems with Wasteland if your only nonbasics are Plateaus (assuming you played said list)? When you're in fear of Wasteland I would propose going for basic lands first when you fetch.

    Btw, something I love about Figure of Destiny is that it can be played off either Mountains or Plains.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenOne View Post
    It depends on which decks did you encounter. If all you faced was 8 lands stompy, MUC, death and taxes and the like you're right. But the DTBs have usually a real low number of basics (aggroloam, Thrashold, Landstill, etc).
    Green One's right. Price of Progress helps against a lot of the top decks. So unless your metagame really is heavy on monocolored decks I would stick with PoP, too. It's just too good to exclude, normally.
    This reminds me of a game against Aggro Loam. My opponent's playing a huge Devastating Dreams while still at a good amount of life points (around 10 maybe) and in response he dies to Price of Progress followed by Fireblast.

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