[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

[Doishy]

For anyone interested in terms of deck discussion:

Quick update:

Currently on:

2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Act on Impulse
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Dark Ritual
3 Doomsday
2 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:

1 Ancient Grudge
1 By Force
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Chromatic Sphere
1 Doomsday
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Fire // Ice
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ideas Unbound
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tropical Island

But looking to switch into:

1 Badlands
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Act on Impulse
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Dark Ritual
3 Doomsday
1 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:

1 Ancient Grudge
1 By Force
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Chromatic Sphere
1 Doomsday
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Fire // Ice
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ideas Unbound
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tropical Island

I still don't own a Badlands or a second TS hence the pending changes.
Recent changes are trying out a touch of G in SB again and switching IC to IU (Provides cheaper BW into draw piles, allows boarding in to enable UU BW -> ToA piles, allows 1UU LM piles and sometimes a 2 mana temp Ancestral is fine to wish for as is.

I'm still not 100% sold on the SB. Fire//Ice has been very nice in terms of the Fire side. Ice has yet to shine based on what I have been facing, I look forward to the day I tap a 3Sphere with it.

I'm also not sold on needing the G. Carpets are a concession to try and gain more resource back vs Grixis to basically mitigate the soft counters they run and keep mana resource post hand shredding war. Suggestions welcome.

People seem to be running 2 CB a fair bit now and are happy with that number. I still like 3 but I do keep thinking I want to shoehorn in either a Chain of Vapor somewhere in the main or a 4th BW on top of the 3BW, 1 ToA already there so the 3rd CB seems like an easy take out.

[kravkenov]

Why playing a Tendrils main deck ?!
From what I read on the wiki, every pile listed strictly end by BW into ToA.
Is this only to enable some kind of «*double ToA*» or «*cheap*» ToA pile ?

[Dr_D]

Why playing a Tendrils main deck ?!
From what I read on the wiki, every pile listed strictly end by BW into ToA.
Is this only to enable some kind of «*double ToA*» or «*cheap*» ToA pile ?

Those same piles work with tendrils instead of burning wish if you just cast one more thing pre Doomsday. Also, his list is running conjurer's baubles, opening up many high storm lines that you don't get in a baubless wish list. There are also ptt piles that can storm for 15+ storm and the maindeck tendrils and baubles help facilitate this. Check out the new pile document to see how many piles are possible by having a maindeck tendrils.

[Doishy]

Why playing a Tendrils main deck ?!
From what I read on the wiki, every pile listed strictly end by BW into ToA.
Is this only to enable some kind of «*double ToA*» or «*cheap*» ToA pile ?

Most people aren't running ToA main and opt for 4 BW instead.

Those same piles work with tendrils instead of burning wish if you just cast one more thing pre Doomsday. Also, his list is running conjurer's baubles, opening up many high storm lines that you don't get in a baubless wish list. There are also ptt piles that can storm for 15+ storm and the maindeck tendrils and baubles help facilitate this. Check out the new pile document to see how many piles are possible by having a maindeck tendrils.

As stated it opens up some cool lines.

One nice thing is with something like Cantrip and ToA in hand with 1U you can go (Quick note: This is a BS pile so having CB, BS, AoI or ToA in hand would work or can be done with a LP in hand if have less mana or if need to sub LP for CB etc etc, you get the drift).

[BS, LED, AoI, CB, CB]

Play line is thus with numbers being storm:

1. Doomsday
2. Cast GP, draw (BS)
3. Cast BS, draw (LED, AoI, CB), replace (AoI, ToA)
4. Cast LED
5. Cast CB
- Crack LED for RRR
- Activate CB targeting LED, draw (AoI)
6. Cast AoI, exile (ToA, CB, LED)
7. Cast LED
- Crack LED for BBB
8. Cast CB [This is the key part, the fact you can cast CB using the LED mana where with BW you have to have an additional mana and thus cannot afford the loop]
- Activate CB, target CB, draw (CB)
9. Cast CB
- Activate CB, target LED, draw (LED)
10. Cast LED
- Crack LED for BBB
11. Cast ToA for 11 storm.

To also note this is a pile that scales storm by X so +X mana = +X storm :)

MD ToA also allows some grindy games where you can just value ToA, rebuild, ToA again or use it as a finishing strike after Goblins don't quite get there....

[Doishy]

Hey all. Myself and a couple of others have started a project in terms of the deck and where we sit in the world. One of the annoying things about our little archetype community is that we are relatively small. We don't have a potential thousand people to glean results from and because of this we don't actually know how the deck looks results wise other than our own personal experiences.

Because of this we have put together a spreadsheet to start recording results on. The idea here is to try and gather as much data as possible in terms of tracking where the deck is in regards to Match wins/losses, wins and losses broken down by game, average winning turn, average winning method and so on.

Because of this I am inviting everyone who currently plays to please help us out filling in the sheet. Please only fill in a line if you have complete data for a given match. If a field has a dropdown and the field is not relevant (eg: You never make it to game 3) please input N/A to it! If you could also possibly note down in the end column the notable bits of your list. We assume a standard list has BW, LP and whatnot but anything different such as my use of CB and MB ToA should be noted there.

The second tab of the sheet has an explanation of all the kill lines.

I have inputted ten example lines to give people an idea of what sort of thing is expected under "Doishy".
We already have 100 or so matches recorded which are starting to show some cool trends but we need more data! (These are saved on a non public master sheet with added data processing playground).

Here is the link to the sheet: LINK

Props to angrybacon for sorting out the google sheet formatting and d8dk32 for helping us gather initial data to play with.

[Doishy]

Congrats to Gold_rook 5-0-ing a recent league :)

https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...gue-2017-12-10

[Ninjastill]

First time lurker in this thread would love if someone could answer my nooby questions...

1) What does Doomsday storm do better than other storm lists?
2) What are the common Doomsday Piles? and How do you go about going off after a Doomsday
3) On a Scale of 1-10 How competitive is Doomsday in a wide open meta, lets say a GP or something.

Thanks:D

[bennotsi]

First time lurker in this thread would love if someone could answer my nooby questions...

1) What does Doomsday storm do better than other storm lists?
2) What are the common Doomsday Piles? and How do you go about going off after a Doomsday
3) On a Scale of 1-10 How competitive is Doomsday in a wide open meta, lets say a GP or something.

Thanks:D

1) Consistency and robustness mostly. Ad Nauseam remains random and requires plenty of life, Doomsday kills are deterministic and can be performed from as little as 2 life. Ad Nauseam also emposes severe constraints on deck design, although the current lists are not that far off. Past in Flames is vulnerable to most graveyard hate, Doomsday only to Surgical Extraction. In Doomsday, Burning Wish is a true business spell, whereas in ANT you can fetch Past in Flames but need another tutor to find Tendrills, and in TES Burning Wish is mostly for fetching Empty the Warrens, other lines are not impossible but require insane amounts of mana. This adds consistency to the deck as you get to play 7 business spells that can lead to deterministic wins.

2) List of piles: https://github.com/Bennotsi-MTG/DDFT...ster/README.md
I am not sure about what you mean with going off after Doomsday, do you mean pass the turn piles? In case you want to read up a bit on the theory to playing the deck: http://ddft.wiki/

3) Doomsday requires a ton of practice. You'll lose way more games to your own mistakes than to your opponent's doing. The current lists have very good game 1 results, we're currently looking at what and how to sideboard to increase the win rates to game 2 and 3.

[Doishy]

3) On a Scale of 1-10 How competitive is Doomsday in a wide open meta, lets say a GP or something.
Thanks:D

3) Doomsday requires a ton of practice. You'll lose way more games to your own mistakes than to your opponent's doing. The current lists have very good game 1 results, we're currently looking at what and how to sideboard to increase the win rates to game 2 and 3.

To elaborate on bennotsi's point, the deck will have good game against the same decks other traditional storm decks do, and likely have a better long game too however this comes at a price of having a lot of decision points both pre-combo and during the combo. This means a lot of potential bad decisions. In some decks these decisions can be not so bad however in a deck with a title card such as ours, these mistakes become more punishing.

Over a longer tournament where constant thinking is required, it can be quite heavy going but if you have put the work in beforehand, you can easily do well. I think the deck also requires a tad more dedication than many decks where people can dip in and out with them but, it is very rewarding nonetheless. I can provide more in depth stats if required.

[kravkenov]

thank you for these very constructives answers.
Basically I’m playing with the deck for 4 or 5 years now. No, to be honest I have the deck sleeves in a box for that time but never feel confident enough to play it at any given tournament. So I mostly just goldfish. I started thinking about it and I’m on this point at the moment : I want a list with a very efficient way to kill with LabMan while killing with Tendrils as a backup plan. From the Gold_Rock list above, I shaved 2 petals for one more Lands (16 Lands) and 7 discards spells with a 3/1 CB/CS split and a Tendrils main (because the line provided by Doishy is pretty cool. Is there anything wrong with a list like this ?

1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Preordain
3 Conjurer’s Bauble
1 Chromatic Sphere
1 Three Wishes

4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Doomsday
3 Burning Wish
1 Tendrils of Agony

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal

4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
2 Island
1 Swamp

[Silent Requiem]

Out of curiousity, has anyone tried adding Recross the Paths? With 0 lands, Recross the Paths is functionally another copy of Doomsday. Presumably you'd have to be pushing the T1 wins as you would not be dropping any recurring resources (bar Chrome Mox, potentially). My understanding is that there were Belcher variants that played this with some success.

[d8dk32]

thank you for these very constructives answers.
Basically I’m playing with the deck for 4 or 5 years now. No, to be honest I have the deck sleeves in a box for that time but never feel confident enough to play it at any given tournament. So I mostly just goldfish. I started thinking about it and I’m on this point at the moment : I want a list with a very efficient way to kill with LabMan while killing with Tendrils as a backup plan. From the Gold_Rock list above, I shaved 2 petals for one more Lands (16 Lands) and 7 discards spells with a 3/1 CB/CS split and a Tendrils main (because the line provided by Doishy is pretty cool. Is there anything wrong with a list like this ?

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with it exactly but I think Lab Man should remain the backup plan. I've never felt like I needed Chromatic Sphere and having 4 petals makes Empty the Warrens a much more reasonable wincon. 4 petals also speeds up the normal Doomsday storm kills. I view Lab Man as a necessary evil, letting us play through hate and heavy discard. But Tendrils of Agony is the main plan in about 70% of games.

[kravkenov]

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with it exactly but I think Lab Man should remain the backup plan. I've never felt like I needed Chromatic Sphere and having 4 petals makes Empty the Warrens a much more reasonable wincon. 4 petals also speeds up the normal Doomsday storm kills. I view Lab Man as a necessary evil, letting us play through hate and heavy discard. But Tendrils of Agony is the main plan in about 70% of games.

So cutting a CS and a CB for 2 more Petals looks reasonable to you ?
I said I want to kill with LabMan first because I don’t feel confident enough to build Tendrils pile on the go. So the «learning plan» was to play the deck with a solid LabMan kill configuration, but if a Tendrils line show up, let’s go for the Tendrils kill. And I do not (yet) play Empty the Warrens as a sideboard kill option.

[d8dk32]

So cutting a CS and a CB for 2 more Petals looks reasonable to you ?
I said I want to kill with LabMan first because I don’t feel confident enough to build Tendrils pile on the go. So the «learning plan» was to play the deck with a solid LabMan kill configuration, but if a Tendrils line show up, let’s go for the Tendrils kill. And I do not (yet) play Empty the Warrens as a sideboard kill option.

I think that would be reasonable. I also think Empty the Warrens should 100% be in the sideboard. A fast empty is a great option against Delver, Czech pile, and any deck with lockpieces.

[Ninjastill]

Thanks for answering my questions, have been doing a lot of goldfishing learning basic piles so far. Are the Baubles there for easier Lab man kills? and I assume Labman is the backup plan where Wish for Tendrils should be the main win con?

[Dr_D]

Thanks for answering my questions, have been doing a lot of goldfishing learning basic piles so far. Are the Baubles there for easier Lab man kills? and I assume Labman is the backup plan where Wish for Tendrils should be the main win con?

Actually, the Baubles are insane for making pass the turn piles that storm for high amounts (12+). I believe there's some in the pile document if you want to have a look.

[d8dk32]

Thanks for answering my questions, have been doing a lot of goldfishing learning basic piles so far. Are the Baubles there for easier Lab man kills? and I assume Labman is the backup plan where Wish for Tendrils should be the main win con?

Baubles do lots of things. They make your pass the turn piles, both lab man and tendrils, more flexible and robust. An onboard Bauble makes BW + 2 LED a kill. An onboard bauble saves you mana at the cost of storm when drawing into piles, which can be great vs soft permission like daze. They make it easier to play through hate and heavy discard by being cantrips you dont need to hold or cast. In more corner cases, the instant speed draw can be useful for helping play around surgical extraction, predict, DRS, and other random crap. It also gives you a cantrip you can play off black mana. The downside is that sometimes casting Bauble feels like a wasted turn and it's a shit topdeck.

[Doishy]

Baubles do lots of things. They make your pass the turn piles, both lab man and tendrils, more flexible and robust. An onboard Bauble makes BW + 2 LED a kill. An onboard bauble saves you mana at the cost of storm when drawing into piles, which can be great vs soft permission like daze. They make it easier to play through hate and heavy discard by being cantrips you dont need to hold or cast. In more corner cases, the instant speed draw can be useful for helping play around surgical extraction, predict, DRS, and other random crap. It also gives you a cantrip you can play off black mana. The downside is that sometimes casting Bauble feels like a wasted turn and it's a shit topdeck*.

* Yes and no. CB can be the worst card to draw and it can also be a great card. At worst, it's the next card in the sequence like any other cantrip (scry effects aside). At best it means you can shift anything in the yard back in. This means things like rebuying SB cards or using Wish targets again. I have a slight bias as after writing an entire article on the card I sort of fell in love with it. It is certainly not a maindeck requirement and the deck functions well without but it does enable some cool interactions and increase the potential number of decision points.

Same with MD ToA. I think I am the only one who runs that (please correct me if I am wrong) and again, I would never try and advocate it as a "must have" however it adds further choice to the deck and enables cheaper CB piles thanks to net +1 loops and the lower cost by 2 mana compared to BW into ToA.

For reference: http://ddft.wiki/pages-output/ch2/cb-piles/

If it helps at all, here is the list I am currently running, I would ask the others to post theirs too as there is a fair amount of variation between pilots.
The list really needs to be at -1 Underground Sea and +1 Badlands however I do not own a Badlands as of yet.
With the config as it is probably would better to go -1 Burning Wish and +1 Bauble.


2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Act on Impulse
4 Brainstorm
4 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Dark Ritual
3 Doomsday
1 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Thoughtseize


1 Ancient Grudge
1 By Force
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Doomsday
1 Echoing Truth
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Fire // Ice
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ideas Unbound
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tropical Island


In regards to query on CB facilitating LM piles, yes this is the case but only when running Ideas Unbound main. It enables a cheap pile for 1UU plus cost of cantrip which is [IU, CB, LED, GP, LM] with CB used as the winning draw effect.
ToA is the main plan as d8 said by about 70% of total games.
We have a community google doc for putting in game stats for the deck and currently it shows Doomsday engines are used in high 70% of games as the wincon and, of those, about 70% are ToA lines.

https://imgur.com/a/GgPKG

[Ninjastill]

Baubles do lots of things. They make your pass the turn piles, both lab man and tendrils, more flexible and robust. An onboard Bauble makes BW + 2 LED a kill. An onboard bauble saves you mana at the cost of storm when drawing into piles, which can be great vs soft permission like daze. They make it easier to play through hate and heavy discard by being cantrips you dont need to hold or cast. In more corner cases, the instant speed draw can be useful for helping play around surgical extraction, predict, DRS, and other random crap. It also gives you a cantrip you can play off black mana. The downside is that sometimes casting Bauble feels like a wasted turn and it's a shit topdeck.

Thanks that makes a lot of sense, now do you think with the version with baubles that's been having solid success is a real competitor right now in the format? I love challenging decks, its why I play MTG and this makes me want to learn/build it but obviously haven't played it in a tournament or anything like that.

[d8dk32]

Thanks that makes a lot of sense, now do you think with the version with baubles that's been having solid success is a real competitor right now in the format? I love challenging decks, its why I play MTG and this makes me want to learn/build it but obviously haven't played it in a tournament or anything like that.

"Is it a real competitor" is a hard question to answer. Since the SDT ban, Gold_r0ok has 5-0'd with it and I think won a small 1k, I've top8'd a 1k and lost a win and in for a 1k top8. I have a positive winrate over my last 100+ matches. So yes, you can win with the deck. You'll need to put in lots of reps. I think the deck is worth learning even if you never take it to a real event. It's fun and rewarding and will teach you a lot about cantripping. And you can do well with it.

EDIT to add my current decklist:

3 Doomsday
4 Burning Wish
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Act on Impulse
2 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Preordain
3 Conjurer's Bauble
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
2 Island
1 Swamp

1 Doomsday
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Act on Impulse
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 By Force
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Rending Volley
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

My 1k lists were Bauble-less with 16 lands, so there's a lot of variation in what works.