Thanks guys, I'm definitely gonna put something together and goldfish for awhile (a long while). To me, playing without burning wish seems like a poor choice, as drawing useless cards that i could easily wish for wouldn't be great. I'll proxy for now, and let you guys know how it goes.
So what do the latest lists look like? I got the point that UBrw lists are being used now, with 3 Wishes? Be nice if Silent or emidln post something for me
Ask and ye shall receive.
Here's the list that took 28th place at GP Amsterdam last year (1000+ players):
1 Badlands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
17 lands
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Burning Wish
4 Dark Ritual
3 Doomsday
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Orim's Chant
3 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Silence
Sideboard
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Deathmark
1 Doomsday
1 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Flusterstorm
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Pulverize
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Spiral
Here's the list that recently came in 5th at BoM (700+ players):
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
3 Orim's Chant
1 Rain of Filth
4 Silence
3 Burning Wish
3 Doomsday
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Ponder
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
Sideboard:
2 Serenity
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Doomsday
1 Duress
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Infernal Contract
1 Massacre
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Spiral
1 Virtue's Ruin
1 Shelldock Isle
4 Petals vs 2 Petals seems pretty drastic. Is that some sort of deck evolution over the last year, or just his personal list? Also, what do you run?
edit: value of Rain of Filth? Serenity also looks weird to run when this deck runs 4 SDT itself.
Four Petals is necessary if you want Ad Nauseam to be a legitimate plan B. Otherwise, most piles only call for one Lotus Petal, if any. So, if you decide not to run Ad Nauseam, Lotus Petal becomes far less important (although there is an element of "explosiveness v resilience" to consider too).Originally Posted by Kanti
Rain of Filth is brokenly good, although these lists don't abuse it as much as some. It's basically the 5th Dark Ritual most of the time, but in long games it generates huge amounts of mana on the combo turn, powering the piles you need to fight through the hate.
However Rain of Filth is even better in Meditate lists, which tend to run some number of Cabal Rituals because they don't need to float as much blue mana. And of course, getting threshold is pretty trivial if you have Rain of Filth in hand.
I can't comment on Serenity, as I've never run it, other than to say that it seems a pretty common sideboard choice. Remember that Top can save itself in response to the trigger.
Im not a huge fan of serenity. I think it was originally used to combat mavericks hatebear of choice (ethersworn cannonist) through a mother of runes. Since the printing if thalia and other non-artifact hatebears come to the fore, I think it loses some of its utility. Its still super-awesome against chalice/stax type decks and can get rid of a counterbalance (although that could be somewhat of a push if its active...). Not to mention its hilarious 'one sided obliterate' uses vs affinity :D.
Also for people moving to the red builds... I know that burning wish is basically demonic tutor for the deck, but a lot of my kills (with the black/blue/white build) come from T1 cantip T2 IT ---> mana T3 profit. The piles for IU are cheaper, but there always seems to be less mana available for me when going off anyway, so it seems a bit moot that the piles are cheaper. Do you never miss the extra mana to power through the hate?
Also, I love tendrils in the main. it enables some funny 'bait storm and kill you'/IGG (yes, im still there :)) efforts. Im not quite sure that no wincon main is as strictly better as people say. Its not like we dont run cantrips to avoid/shuffle it away if there is no value to drawing it.... Just thought i'd share :).
The Spanish Tunnel King
4 LED
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Probe
4 SDT
4 Silence
3 Orim's Chant
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Doomsday
1 Tendrils
1 IGG
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
This is what I've been working on lately. The mana is much better, it feels like I can more consistently go off on turn three. I'm still hammering out the SB.
Confused about this thread,why isn't this called Doomsday?
I was hoping to compare with ANT,is there an actual Fetchland Tendrills list on the thread?
From the OP...
Fetchland + Tendrils has turned into many different magic archetypes, TES, ANT, Doomsday, Etc. Ad Nauseum Decks got their own thread, TES is a different beast and thus got its own thread, and this is still a Fetchland tendrils deck that fits into none of the above categories.
is there a doomsday pile that lets you win ( infinite loop what will let you tendrils for as much as you want ? ) with omniscience ?
If you have Omni in play why would you bother with Doomsday? You can just burning wish into Petals of Insight (or really anything that recycles itself) into grapeshot/tendrils and win on the spot. The two cards together in one deck doesn't really make any sense...
Why would you ever play omniscience in this deck??
If I have Onmi in play ... I would not doomsday ... that was not my question .
I was wondering if we could use doomsday as a tutor effect ( so you can tutor the combo pieces )
Ex:
You doomsday
Pile can be something like :
- brainstorm
- show and tell
- Omni
- draw spell
- kill con
This way you need only one show and tell and one omni as your win con... and you can maximize your deck space for more protection or tutors
Just for answering the question with a few thinking for infinite loop you'll need 2 Doomsdays, a kill condition, a Top, Meditate. then add SnT + Omniscience. So except from the pile you must have enought mana and other condition conditions.
how about :
a pile of ...
Brainstorm
show and tell
Onmi
burning wish
tendrils
that's an infinite loop
I've also (finally) settled on UBw Doomsday, probably for much the same reasons as you - I like a more stable mana base and I find that only needing two colours (three if I need protection) makes me faster, which is relevant in a lot of matchups.
I'm running Meditate over Ideas Unbound (simply personal preference), though, so the 4 Probes come out and are replaced with 2 Cabal Ritual (<3), Karakas and a Lotus Petal.
I'm not certain this deck wants less than 17 lands, and another land is my 61st card. How has 16 lands (with no Petal!) been working for you?
Can u explain me how this is an infinite loop? i'm telling this because i wouldn't cut any sb card for petals of insigh.. If you want to play Omniscience and win throught storm you can just play SnT deck and win with petals. There's no reason to do this to this deck because it loses it's concistency.
Omniscience in doomsday combo?! Serious?
Back to some Tendrils...
I´ve been playing something like this on and off again, with only -1 Ponder, -1 Probe, +1 Petal, +1 Scrubland. I do agree that you could possibly cut one land if you´re on Ubw only, but cutting a Petal seems just wrong. The most standard piles require a Petal and spending an extra turn to meet the minimal requirements hurts a deck like this, which can be attacked from various angles.
If you have the full set of Brainstorm, Ponder and Probe available, I guess IGG or IT could get the axe but I´m still not sure about it.
I don't see, why you absolutely need a Lotus Petal in that list. Most of the time you are setting up double cantrip piles anyway, where you don't need a Lotus Petal. I don't like the Chain of Vapor in that list. In the current metagame the only permanent based hate, that opponents play are Gaddock Teeg and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Therefor I like a Karakas way more in that slot and it's an additional land. I never felt comfortable playing the deck with "only" 16 land.
Also don't see the point of petal in the UBw list posted above. Seems like a waste of space. I wouldn't cut IGG from the list though, as 7 chant effects make that IGG look amazing. If you wanted to play a petal you could MAYBE cut an infernal tutor as playing 3 isn't going to make your deck terrible as you then have 7 business spells and that seems perfectly fine seeing as how Lejay's list currently has 6 business spells (3 DD and 3 Wish ideas unbound doesn't really count as a business spell since it's card disadvantage typically. At least with meditate you could occasionally cast it EoT against control and they would practically have to counter it or else risk losing to your 10 card hand when you untapped.) Hardcasting DD off of just lands and a petal isn't particularly appealing to me either as wasteland can make that plan quite tricky to pull off sometimes and I don't want to lose to wasteland in a deck with 3 basic lands. I'd much rather be running a singleton cabal ritual over a singleton petal in the list as cabal ritual actually casts DD while petal isn't guaranteed to cast DD.
You could place omniscience under shelldock isle although I don't see the point of that really although you could theoretically win when you untapped with shelldock hiding omniscience it requires more hoops to jump through to win with petals of insight unless you're running with sparkcaster to ping them to death although that opens you up to creature removal unless you have a chant effect in hand or something or you have exactly 3 cards in library after you draw so you can brainstorm into sparkcaster + silence. Although I don't see how this is any better than emrakul other than karakas foiling the emrakul plan unless you put your own karakas in the pile.
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