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Thread: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

  1. #2641
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    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderPreaux View Post
    I suppose it makes more sense to answer these in reverse order. To clarify, I run 17 lands, and I didn't want Badlands to be an 18th. Compared to you, it sounds like you shifted a land out for a Petal. I can see why you might want a Badlands over Volcanic, as Lake of the Dead gives you an incentive to run more Swamps, but I was looking for a third red source, so if I went for something like Wish > Pulverize, I could pull another red source for a Wish/Act on Impulse.
    Actually I would remove Lake immediately if playing with R again s it wouldn't be a concern. A lot of people on wishlists are on 3-4 Petals and 15-16 lands. The deck has such a tight mana base that with the extra Petal fixing you could (and I have) just run a single R source however for the purposes of resiliency (and Pulverise) this is not optimal. I like one Volc and one Badlands because you then can fetch USea into Badlands for say T1 Cantrip / Discard, T2 BW for T3 Doomsday off of lands.

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderPreaux View Post
    I'm not sure that Pulverize is the best choice, but it does seem like a distinctively different option given that it can cost zero mana, so you don't have to wait a turn after Wishing for it. I'm not sure how many slots to devote to artifact locks like Lands/Eldrazi, so I was thinking I'd want the Wish target to be the most decisive, to take game 1s and also reduce the burden on the sidedeck, as might then only need 0-2 Hurkyl's or red artifact sweepers. Just out of interest though, what is the bonus to playing By Force over Meltdown? As far as I can tell, By Force is better against some Trinisphere situations, but less good against multiple Chalices, which is the artifact held in common by a lot of lock piece decks. Since the second lock piece can be Thorn or Trinisphere, I figure it might be more effective across all scenarios to play Meltdown.
    By Force X = 1 kills chalice on one. By Force X = 2 kills chalice on 1 and on 2. Unless they have really upscaled it seems good to hit a lot of things. Pulverise I see as something where you don't cast it the turn you wish for it. You cast it the turn you are going off as the land loss is huge otherwise. You also have to be careful as often in matchups you want to dump as much artifact mana down fast so it does not get locked out by chalice = 0 so destroying all artifacts can be a double edged blade.

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderPreaux View Post
    My main concern was about how AoI fits with pass-the-turn piles, but do all the blue cantrips really de-emphasize those plays that much? Part of the appeal of this deck, in my opinion, was that against other combo decks or BU(x) decks, you can run full attrition into a pass-the-turn pile that negates discard. For example, with careful land plays and cantrip use, you can use discard to snipe BU(x) deck's counters and slam a doomsday, effectively blanking their discard because you'll have lands for the mana and can simply topdeck into your win the next turn. Gambling against their topdecked counters seems way better than trying to work through Seize/Hymn eating away your spare cantrips or requiring you to discard those while you also have to, at some point, beat the counterspells. Since Grixis/4C are so popular, I figure this would be a legitimate concern, but I haven't tested enough to know how good/bad the matchups are.
    Having read this paragraph a few times I'm a tad confused as to what point/(s) you are getting at, any chance you could rephrase it somehow? (Sorry!)
    From what I have seen from Gold_rook's streams the best PTT pile is simply something like DD with two lands out, fetch in hand. Stack [AoI - LM - LED - GP - R dual]. Draw AoI, play and fetch land. Cast AoI, win. It doesn't seem to hamper the PTT plan in any real form.

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderPreaux View Post
    That's why I'd be concerned about the Lab-Man-pass pile costing more and costing red, which comes off non-basic lands (though, with 3 red lands, I could more easily draw one naturally, which lets me conserve a red against non-hymn discard spells). It's also worth noting, though, that against Storm/Reanimator/SnS, your nonbasics wouldn't get challenged (and you can play AoI off Blood Moon anyway) and they have neither removal or damage to challenge a pile of AoI, LED, Probe, Probe, Lab Man, which wins the game for 2R anyway. I do like the idea of MB/SB AoI, it's just hard to let go of IU entirely, I'll know for sure as I test against the BUG/Grixis/4C lists.
    Yeah, I couldn't let go of IU hence why I am on my current listy
    The Doomsday Codex



    We're catching bullets in our teeth,
    Its hard to do but they're so sweet.
    And if they take a couple out,
    We try to work things out.....

    Meow.

  2. #2642

    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    Quote Originally Posted by Doishy View Post
    I like one Volc and one Badlands because you then can fetch USea into Badlands for say T1 Cantrip / Discard, T2 BW for T3 Doomsday off of lands.
    When I was playing this deck a lot I found that non-blue non-basics were miserable. I found I'd have to mulligan perfectly reasonable hands due to having a Badlands (or sometimes a Scrubland or Bayou) and it was far more frequent than I wanted to go land, land, land, doomsday, pass. In terms of casting Doomsday off lands, the thing I wanted the most was to be able to do it vs prison/control in the midgame (turns 4-6) as a threat, and to do that around wasteland consistently, I needed 2x Swamp. Any further concessions (particularly if you're on 15 or 16 lands) resulted in more mulligans. At 16-17 lands I'd play a max of two non-islands. At 18 I'd consider a third.
    BZK! - Storm Boards

    Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
    Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.

  3. #2643
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    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    Is it worth starting a new (post SDT) thread for this deck?

  4. #2644
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    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Requiem View Post
    Is it worth starting a new (post SDT) thread for this deck?
    Nah, this thread started in 2007, the deck has changed quite dramatically quite a few times since then. Sure the banning of SDT has had a lot of impact on how the deck plays. But I'd like to argue that it's actually less dramatic then switching from the German list that played Meditate to the UBrw lists that played Ideas Unbound somewhere in 2011.

    To summarize the recent changes: We've basically replaced SDT with some Preordains and replaced Ideas Unbound with Act on Impulse. No SDT means we can do with fewer lands. So we see an increase in Lotus Petals and the 4th Burning Wish is getting more popular. Meanwhile, Conjurer's Bauble is being tested as it enables a couple of efficient high-storm piles.

  5. #2645
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    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Requiem View Post
    Is it worth starting a new (post SDT) thread for this deck?
    Well, the first post literally starts off with; "This archetype is extremely customizable. The basic requirements are blue/black fetchlands, brainstorm, dark ritual, lion's eye diamond, and tendrils of agony." .... and that has not changed at all so could be considered still relevant? However this thread is a delightful history through many iterations of the archetype and having a refresh is probably not a terrible idea.

    I'm happy either way :)
    The Doomsday Codex



    We're catching bullets in our teeth,
    Its hard to do but they're so sweet.
    And if they take a couple out,
    We try to work things out.....

    Meow.

  6. #2646
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    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    For anyone needing a hand in grasping the deck, we now have a website of how to play it!

    The Doomsday Codex :)

    Updates will be as and when and we hope to start pushing some other articles and whatnot too.

    Massive thanks go to emidln, bennotsi and d8dk32 for this so give them some love.
    The Doomsday Codex



    We're catching bullets in our teeth,
    Its hard to do but they're so sweet.
    And if they take a couple out,
    We try to work things out.....

    Meow.

  7. #2647

    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    Quote Originally Posted by Doishy View Post
    For anyone needing a hand in grasping the deck, we now have a website of how to play it!

    The Doomsday Codex :)

    Updates will be as and when and we hope to start pushing some other articles and whatnot too.

    Massive thanks go to emidln, bennotsi and d8dk32 for this so give them some love.

    Hey! Very interested in learning to play the deck but was having trouble finding your/a base list to start from. Help!

  8. #2648
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    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    See for example here: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16749&d=303582&f=LE

    There's also the deck database subforum on stormboards where we discuss individual lists (http://teamstormboards.proboards.com)

  9. #2649

    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    Quote Originally Posted by bennotsi View Post
    See for example here: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16749&d=303582&f=LE

    There's also the deck database subforum on stormboards where we discuss individual lists (http://teamstormboards.proboards.com)
    Highly appreciate ! (Both, the wiki and the list).
    IT IS TWO AND A HALF MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT

  10. #2650
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    Re: emidln's tendrils lists

    It's turn two. You've played a land. Storm is two and you have resolved Doomsday. Life is at 10.

    To the left is your hand. To the right are your options.

    Win this turn.




    These are your potential wish targets:


  11. #2651
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    Re: emidln's tendrils lists

    Quote Originally Posted by beardstorm View Post
    It's turn two. You've played a land. Storm is two and you have resolved Doomsday. Life is at 10.

    To the left is your hand. To the right are your options.

    Win this turn.



    These are your potential wish targets:
    Nice and easy.

    Stack [BS, AoI, CB, LED, LED]

    Island for U.
    Cast GP (Go to 8 life) (3 Storm)
    Draw BS.
    Cast BS for U (4 Storm).
    Draw AoI, CB, LED, replace AoI, BW.
    Cast LP (5 Storm)
    Use LP mana to cast CB (6 Storm)
    Cast LED (7 Storm)
    Crack LED for RRR
    Activate CB targeting LED, draw AoI.
    Cast AoI (8 Storm) exile BW, LED, LED
    Cast LED and LED (9 and 10 storm)
    Crack LEDs for RRRBBB
    Cast BW (11 Storm) targeting Tendrils
    Cast Tendrils of agony for 12.
    The Doomsday Codex



    We're catching bullets in our teeth,
    Its hard to do but they're so sweet.
    And if they take a couple out,
    We try to work things out.....

    Meow.

  12. #2652
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    Re: emidln's tendrils lists

    Quote Originally Posted by Doishy View Post
    Nice and easy.

    Stack [BS, AoI, CB, LED, LED]
    You got it. I took a long, hard look at it and I can't seem to find another line than exactly this one, not even one with Laboratory Maniac.

  13. #2653
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    Re: emidln's tendrils lists

    Quote Originally Posted by beardstorm View Post
    You got it. I took a long, hard look at it and I can't seem to find another line than exactly this one, not even one with Laboratory Maniac.

    I can see a few more for my list (MD ToA as well as SB one) however I cannot work a LM one efficiently. You are one mana off a LM one.
    If you had +1 Mana you could also do an IC line using the BW and first card as LED.
    The Doomsday Codex



    We're catching bullets in our teeth,
    Its hard to do but they're so sweet.
    And if they take a couple out,
    We try to work things out.....

    Meow.

  14. #2654

    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    Quick question : why do we not play Grim Tutor (or Dark Pétition) ?! Seems a decent tool for the deck.
    Last edited by kravkenov; 11-19-2017 at 03:52 PM.
    IT IS TWO AND A HALF MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT

  15. #2655
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    Re: emidln's tendrils lists

    Quote Originally Posted by beardstorm View Post
    You got it. I took a long, hard look at it and I can't seem to find another line than exactly this one, not even one with Laboratory Maniac.
    If you weren't playing Infernal Contract in the sideboard but Act on Impulse or Edge of Autumn instead, there would have been more options.

    Quote Originally Posted by kravkenov View Post
    Quick question : why do we not see play Grin Tutor ?! Seems a decent tool for the deck.
    I think the main reason is that you can't really use it post-Doomsday, unlike Burning Wish. Using GT post-Doomsday reliably requires using Draw4s instead of the draw/exile 3s that have much cheaper piles. Also, casting GT early in the game almost certainly requires a Dark Ritual that I'd rather use to cast Doomsday.

  16. #2656
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    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    Ran a UBr(w) DDFT list for fun at a local today, probably the first time playing it in about 4 years. Played Mentors sb (3 Mentor, 2 Serenity, Chain, Karakas, bunch of Sorceries) since they fit the fun idea. Missed the prizes, but went better than I had expected beforehand. With tighter play/list/boarding a 6-0 (or at least 5-1) would have certainly been possible, although I'd still not take it to a big event.

    R1: Miracles 0-2
    Played somewat sloppily in the general decision making I think (cantrips, timing etc), although he drew pretty good (triple FoW in the early turns g2, then drew the StP+Terminus for Mentor, and Fluster for the DD after).

    R2: BR Reanimate 2-1
    Inexperienced opponent, but got there in both postboard games (including a PTT pile for hate for his board like Chain+Karakas with a Mentor + some tokens in play.).

    R3: UR Delver 2-0
    Two smooth games with double cantrip piles, his hands weren't the greatest. Had to choose whether to play around Daze or Bolt in g1 with Probe, which would you choose? (1 Daze/0 Bolt seen, couldn't counter anything if he had another Daze in hand up to this point)

    R4: Moon Stompy 2-1
    Had a great hand g1, but t1 Trinisphere OTP beat me (and Ape Beatdown was too fast for my Labman plan). Won g2 with discard and then combo I think. G3 he had the t1 trinisphere again, but I had the Serenity with three lands. He has some Moon effects but I get there.

    R5: Ugr "Lands" with FoW/BWish/Intuition 1-2
    Won g1 after having to hit a business spell with AoI (he FoW'd the wrong spell also). Lose g2 playing Mentor and getting outraced when his unknown card turns out to be DD to pair with the Stage in play. Lose g3 when he has to brainstorm into fow+blue card with a lethal Wish on the stack, and he does (3rd card was Surgical for the Wish too, but it was over anyways).

    R6: Maverick 2-1
    Lose to Mom->Thalia g2, couldn't find an answer in time despite playing plenty.

    So I somehow lost two good matchups, but beat some pretty bad ones..

    @Bennotsi
    Why don't you ever play the Amsterdam bimonthlies (or other Dutch legacy tournaments)? You're clearly a strong player seeing the stuff you've written in the past (I remember articles on double DD piles, playing around QPM etc.), but I don't think I've ever seen you around irl.
    37th GP Ams'11 | 80th GP Stras '13 | 5th BoM Paris '13 | 12th GP Lille '15

  17. #2657
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    Re: emidln's tendrils lists

    Quote Originally Posted by Doishy View Post
    I can see a few more for my list (MD ToA as well as SB one) however I cannot work a LM one efficiently. You are one mana off a LM one.
    If you had +1 Mana you could also do an IC line using the BW and first card as LED.
    Yup. I saw those lines as well. Interesting that you play the main deck Tendrils, I might try that out.

  18. #2658
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    Re: emidln's tendrils lists

    Quote Originally Posted by beardstorm View Post
    Yup. I saw those lines as well. Interesting that you play the main deck Tendrils, I might try that out.
    It enables things such as being able to have no mana floating post AoI to then pay for the CB with the LED to then loop once and then cast ToA or to be able to play a grindy game by doing small value Tendrils a couple of times (can also achieve same effect by casting ToA then using CB to loop back into the deck).

    I run 3 BW and 1 ToA where most run 4 BW main. I think either is fine, I just like some of the lines it provides.
    The Doomsday Codex



    We're catching bullets in our teeth,
    Its hard to do but they're so sweet.
    And if they take a couple out,
    We try to work things out.....

    Meow.

  19. #2659
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    Re: [Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

    Quote Originally Posted by JamieW89 View Post
    Ran a UBr(w) DDFT list for fun at a local today, probably the first time playing it in about 4 years. Played Mentors sb (3 Mentor, 2 Serenity, Chain, Karakas, bunch of Sorceries) since they fit the fun idea. Missed the prizes, but went better than I had expected beforehand. With tighter play/list/boarding a 6-0 (or at least 5-1) would have certainly been possible, although I'd still not take it to a big event.
    Do you have a complete decklist?

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