Ah, but you can feed Shard Volley with Barbarian Ring. And 18 Mountain is certainly enough to support 3 Fireblast. As a rule of thumb, it will work like this:
If you have BRing and only get 1-2 Shard Volleys or 1 Fireblast, you'll sac mountains so you can activate BRing and burn with it. In this scenario, BRing increases your chances of a smooth t4 goldfish.
If you have the "t3 win" hand, 1 of 3 lands can be BRing and 1 of the 4 bolts can be Shard Volley without any problem. In this case, BRing fuels the Shard Volley, leaving the 2 Mountain for the final Fireblast.
In short, playing Volley + the fact that BRing sacrifices to it means that you increase chances for t3 wins, while playing BRing + the fact that Volley helps build threshold for it increases chances for t4 wins.
Kar bankooer jeg
oh, I just misred the card!Originally Posted by urdjur
Sorry for going a little offtopic, but I would like to discuss a deck that won a 10 person tournament (ok, it is the same as saying: almost nothing!). It's a burn splashing black for terminate/confidant/blightning.
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32585
Mainboard:
4 Badlands
4 Wasteland
4 Great Furnace
4 Mountain
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Incinerate
4 Shrapnel Blast
2 Fireblast
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Chrome Mox
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Dark Confidant
4 Blightning
4 Terminate
4 Chain Lightning
Sideboard:
3 Blood Moon
3 Price of Progress
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
What do you think? Would you play it over normal burn? Ok, I think the performance of normal burn is better; but playing confidants and blightnings on burn deck is so funny. Problems I see: it may be funnier, but is not faster that normal burn, mabase is sooo weak, and in topdeck mode it works worse... Any opinion?
Just write this to revive a little the topic, because now the core of the deck is more or less always the same (there's no discussion), and worldwake doesn´t have any special card to mention.
Heh you haven't even convinced yourself, so it's a non-starter. If you're trying to have fun with a deck idea, then have at it. But if you want to have an effective burn deck, then play mono-red.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
No, no, it wasn´t me who played the deck! I just saw it on deckcheck :P But it got my attention because of blightning, I always thought how to play this card but never found the spot/deck.
I have been thinking about the deck... considering other player doesn´t have FoW, any hand with chrome mox is pretty solid: Confidant on first turn or SDT with activation, and it allows t2 marauders + spark or blightning: 3 damage and 2 cards. Ok, they are not random, but always hurts. Still it is true, I think it kills on average on T4-T5 so playing monocolor is a better option.
Pros:
-potential card advantage from Bob
-Terminate can kill creatures that Lightning Bolt can't
-Shrapnel Blast isfor 5
Cons:
-Wasteland is a threat
-removal is a threat (kills Bob)
-colorscrew more often than with mono-red
-Chrome Mox is card disadvantage
-Terminate isn't burn
In my opinion, the blue splash is stronger than the black splash because it gives you access to card draw without being on a creature. Realize that every deck in the format can deal with creatures or is fast enough to ignore them. Bob will eat removal almost every time, whereas running blue for Brainstorm + fetchlands is a bit harder to fight than a 2/1 creature, and has the side benefit of getting you closer to Threshold for your Barbarian Rings. And I'm still not sure it is worth opening yourself up to Wasteland/Stifle shenanigans.
"If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him.
If he is in superior strength, evade him.
If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him.
Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.
If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
If his forces are united, separate them.
Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected."
-Sun Tzu
There are several issues with that list. First off, if you want to play burn, you're better off with mono-red and a non-shrapnel blast list at that. Trying to fit shrapnel blast even after you have splashed is even greater folly - there are so many better things to pick from at that point.
If you DO splash, look to Goyf Sligh. It makes the deck more powerful at the cost of opening it up to Wasteland and Stifle. Is it worth it? I think that if you're gonna do that, you might as well go all the way and play Zoo instead.
Now, if one wanted to build a RB burn list, looking to Goyf Sligh first would be a good starting point. We don't get Tarmogoyf (doh!) but we do get Tombstalker, Blightning and Nyxathid instead. If we're looking at fitting Blightning, we should automatically look to Lightning Bolt and Hymn to Tourach (its components). After that, why not include those big black beaters to capitalize on your filled grave and discard?
Something like:
20 lands
4x Goblin Guide
4x Tombstalker
4x Nyxathid
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Blightning
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Rift Bolt
4x Magma Jet
4x Fireblast
+ Sideboard with lots of pin point discard against combo, counterbalance and such. I'm NOT saying this is a good list, but if one was looking to fit Blightning and splashing burn with black, this is the direction I'd recommend.
Kar bankooer jeg
BURN
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
3 Browbeat
3 Flamebreak
3 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
1 Fork
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Blackvice
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Ankh of Mishra
2 Barbarian Ring
17 Mountains
BURN
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
3 Browbeat
3 Flamebreak
3 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
1 Fork
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Blackvice
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Ankh of Mishra
2 Barbarian Ring
17 Mountains
If Black Vise were legal in Legacy you would want to play 4 of them. Also, please add some content other than just a decklist to your (double)post. We can't read your mind, and decklists are a dime a dozen.
Red/Black Sligh is a completely different deck from straight-up Red Burn and thus belongs in another thread. 'Nuff said.
I'm curious what seems to be the problem with the tried-and-true, more straightforward approach to Burn decks. Something more like:
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast (Burn NEEDS to run 4 of these)
4 Magma Jet
4 Flamebreak/Firespout
3 Flame Rift
2 Cursed Scroll
17 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring
Sideboard:
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Price of Progress
3 Shattering Spree
2 Anarchy
2 Sirocco
Scrolls and B. Rings for late-game damage, cards like Flame Rift and Fireblast to keep your clock as fast as possible, Hellspark is clearly interchangeable with cards like Goblin Guide, Mogg Fanatic, Slith Firewalker, Magus of the Scroll, etc.
Ugh, we're moving backwards again. In a burn thread, even. Who woulda thought?
Run Flame Rift only if Zoo doesn't exist in your meta. Who does that really apply to? Turning the game into a 16/16 or 12/12 race is generally fine for Burn, but not when it costs us 2 mana and a card, and not when opposing decks are getting ever-faster.
Suggesting 4 Fireblasts and zero Shard Volleys makes your argument really suspect. I've got a suspicion that you're used to doing something one way and nothing will convince you otherwise. Fine.
Cursed Scroll? This was discarded years ago as a Burn candidate. It's only a consideration in metas that don't include Pridemage.
I simply don't like Hellspark Elemental though I realize that's a purely subjective reaction against anything that doesn't guarantee damage. The other ideas are simply bad ones. MHO.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
Where are the Price of Progress? They're the best card in the deck!! The problem with Burn is... there is not any way to innovate, as 55 cards more or less are already fixed.
19 lands
16 3 damage x R
4 Magma jet
4 Fireblast
4 Price of progress
4 Keldon marauders
4 Flamebreak / Volcanic Fallout
With this, you have 55 cards... the other 5, each one's decission.
About flame rift... if it was "instant" it would have a place, but I personally hate 2º turn wasting RR in 4 damages, sorcery speed, also to me.
And cursed scroll, you are going to take advantage of it on turn 4th as soon... by then, you should be waiting for the spark that will take the last 2 points.
Has anyone tested Searing Blaze in the deck yet?
It really does seem very strong with all the creatures running around the meta lately. Perhaps in the sideboard if nothing else.
Searing Blaze is an excellent sideboard addition that drastically improves the challenging Zoo matchup. Especially in Burn builds that splash green for Krosan Grip and black for Bob/Terminate, the landfall trigger is quite reliable, which essentially turns the single card Searing Blaze into a double Lightning Bolt. It is particularly powerful against Goyf, a creature that sometimes must be burned away, to allow Marauders and Hellsparks to charge through. In this case, it is sometimes disadvantageous to use 2 burn spells to get rid of Goy. Searing Blaze essentially means you only "waste" one spell on the Goyf, because the Blaze will affect BOTH the player and the creature.
Regarding the maindeck, what considerations have been made regading the other "Direct damage" Creatures: Hell's Thunder and Ball Lightning, specifically? Hell's Thunder is particularly interesting, as its 4 toughness keeps it out of Lightning Bolt range, and the only cards that can feasibly block it are Birds (and who uses those). Unearth is especially useful in its circumventing of Daze/FoW. Ball Lightning consistently encounters problems owing to its low toughness and lack of evasion, and its vulnerability to counter magic. What are the thoughts on this?
-ktkenshinx-
They are both horrible. White or black based removal still hit Thunder, and that makes it unplayable. The risk and reward here is poor.
Sorry for the double post, but this is completely unrelated to my last post.
Ok so this deck sucks right? Yeah we hate to admit it, but this deck is crap. With that being said, why don't we try some splashes? Yeah yeah you lose some of your immunity to non basic hate. Who cares? Monored burn blows and there are at least 10 other decks someone should bring to a tournament instead. Granted splashing something may not fix anything, but it should be tried more than it has prior. I agree with Sevryn that the blue splash would probably be better than black and I think it at least merits an honest go. If that doesn't work we didn't lose much, because the deck is already destined for the trash heap.
BURN
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
3 Browbeat
3 Flamebreak
3 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
1 Fork
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Blackvice
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Ankh of Mishra
2 Barbarian Ring
17 Mountains
1 of each artifact is the best combination becouse makes a 4 artifact permanent dmg which some are for early game some for middle and some for late...some with 1 cost and some with 2..some with activated ability some passive..
1 Fork = MUST for a burn deck , its a finisher and its a controler ( and maybe 1 more in sb )
4 Mogg Fanatic = are all creatures that a pure burn deck needs.. otherwise try Sligh
3 Magma jet becouse they are for middle and late game, not for early + thay are to choose what you need next , not for dmg ( no way 4 )
3 Browbeat becouse thay are for middle+late game too and they are for drawing ( no way 4 )
3 price of progress becouse they are for middle+late game and they are for finishing ( no way 4 md , maybe 1 more in sb )
3 Flamebreak becouse they are for middle+late game and only to clean up the board vs decks like Merfolks/goblins/zoo + makes dmg to player (no way 4 , maybe 1 more in sb )
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
becouse with 1 mana make 3 dmg..
4 fireblast...becouse we are playing BURN and becouse runs over counterbalance ( NO WAY 3 OR LESS OMFG )
2 Barbarian Rings becouse...it runs over standstill and over counterbalance
17 mountains becouse...its pure red burn deck with 4 fireblast
SIDEBOARD:
here are the cards that needed , in what dose now..its a pov and matter of environmentend
tormod's crypt / Relic of Progenitus ( maybe 2/3 or 2/2 )
Pyroblast / red elemental blast ( maybe 2/3 or 2/2 )
4 Smash to Smithereens
Sulfuric Vortex / pirostatic pillar ( maybe 3 )
Pyroclasm / flamebreak / Cave-In / Volcanic Fallout ( maybe 3 )
Pithing needle ( maybe 3 )
You had already been reminded to follow the Site Rules. Warning issued. ~Nihil Credo
Last edited by Nihil Credo; 03-08-2010 at 04:59 PM.
i dont know why it posted again twice..sorry
*ps: those 4 artifacts are giving you the variety of gameplay and the variety to face either control decks ( black vise / ank ) either aggro ( scroll / scepter )
I'm currently working on this deck here:
18 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Incinerate
4 Flame Rift
4 Price of Progress
4 Chain Lightning
Sideboard:
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Pyroblast
4 Flamebreak
3 Shattering Spree
3 Smash to Smithereens
Last edited by YigSnakeDaddy; 03-08-2010 at 06:33 AM.
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