Abrupt Decay adds a lot to this. BG Pox was good enough for a SCG top 4 this past spring. Now I think it's much better.
It's that top 4 finish that put this deck on my radar. The deck belonged to Ali Aintrazi (sp?).
With Abrupt Decay, it's worth noting it can't hit creature lands, like Mishra's Factory, Dryad Arbor, Mutavault, etc.
I assume it gets around Judge's Familiar ( or Daze) without the tax, but not around Thalia or Trinisphere.
With these latest builds, I like Darkblast very much. It is so good against so many of the decks that rule the meta. I'm only lukewarm on Ravens Crime.
I want Dread of Night in my side, which is a meta call. Choke perhaps too, for the same reason. And options to deal with Storm, Omniscience, and Dredge.
Thanks for the contributions to this thread. I'm excited to play this deck.
Pox
Stax
Deadguy Ale
I m happy that more people try out this deck, it feels very solid, you won t be disappointedOriginally Posted by berksowl
. However, it does take a while before getting confident with the deck and not finding yourself in awkward situations after a wrong timed smallpox
But yeah thalia is a bitch. Luckily she has only 1 thoughness so darkblast does the job (once again). You can also make them discard her T1. All our removals deal with her, she is annoying but she is by no means a gg. When I first builded this deck the thing I was most afraid of were GY hate cards game 2 and 3. My build especially relies a lot on GY. However, I was surprised by how much it can tolerate GY hate. A surgical extraction on your life from the loam is not gg. Tomodo s crypt, relic of progenitus and faerie macabre are all possible to play around. The only things you kind of have to deal with is layline of the void and RIP. However, if they mulligan to hard on them it can be that your only mishra s factory does the job or that T1 inquisition takes care of RIP. And there are very few decks that play this kind of hate anyway. Nevertheless, krosan grip is an amazing SB card
@berksowl: I feel I have to say something in defense to raven s crime. It is real good, i suggest you to try it in this deck. It has a perfect synergy with life from the loam and it keeps your opponent hand clear all game long. It is also a good card to discard with smallpox/liliana+1. It is a house against control and combo.
I'll continue to give Raven's Crime a chance. Here's my list at the moment:
BG Pox
2 Nether Spirit
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Cursed Scroll
2 Darkblast
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Pox
2 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
2 Bayou
1 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
SIDEBOARD
3 Choke
3 Duress
3 Extirpate
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
For the side, I really want to include Dread of Night for the Seattle meta, where we're seeing Death & Taxes a lot (though one less D&T pilot with me switching over to this build). But maybe of more general utility would be Night of Souls' Betrayal or Damnation. But also, maybe I should be more focused on match-ups that are our least favorable, like combo decks.
Any thoughts are welcome.
I really like your list. I think the right card against D&T for this deck is darkblast. Darkblast does what dread of night does but it has a wider spectrum. It also kills phyrexian revoker in D&T and delvers and nobles in other MUs. Also, one darkblast can kill X/2 guys like stoneforge if you cast it in the upkeep and then dredge it. And it fits better with the rest of the deck (GY friendly). But I can see you already pack 2 in your main deck so you should be fine. If you want a way to tutor for it just add a couple of entomb to the deck. In that way you will have 4 virtual copies of both darkblast and raven s crime. 4 virtual copies of darkblast should crush D&T.
I am not a fan of playing basic forests, not having black mana sucks, but I guess it is just matter of taste.
On the othe hand I don t like your SB much. You don t have any outs to burn or fast aggressive decks. I think you should fit chalice of the void in there. It would also help you against combo. maybe you can remove choke? Choke is slow and you are gonna crush control anyway with raven s crime.
By the way why playing 2 nether spirits rather than a 1/1 split between spirit and bloodghast?
I look forward to hear how the deck performs!
I'm surprised that people playing this deck and its mono-black progenitor haven't caught on to how a 1-of Maze of Ith is aMAZEing in both variants. Perhaps it's because most people who think about adding Maze try to think of a land to cut for it and ending up sticking with the land that taps for mana, which isn't how you want to think about Maze. You want to think about cutting a spell for Maze of Ith, likely another removal spell.
Here's my explanation I used when I used to play both Smallpox variants and posted in the Pox thread. It's still relevant today:
I guess I will add "5. It's a land. Stated again because you don't have to worry about it getting hit by targeted discard spells that only hit nonland cards."
I have been to a small tournament, about 30 people. I started at 3-0 and finished 3-3. Pretty disappointing but that is just how it is sometimes.
I played my usual list with a few changes:
+2 bloodghast
-1 worm harvest
-2 pernicius deed
+1 maelstrom pulse
R1 vr UW miracle, win 2-0. I kept him low of mana and the only time he managed to play entreat the angels I had a deed.
R2 vr D&T, win 2-0. I have a darkblast going both games.
R3 vr deadguy ale, win 2-0. I raven s crime his hand away and manascrew him both games.
R4 vr D&T, loss 2-0. I had everything I wished for, he had even more.
R5 esperblade, loss 2-0. He plays very well both matches while I fix his mana with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
R6 BUG, loss 2-1. G1 is very closed, he is dow to 2 life I am down at 1 life. So close. He plays an extra creature and wins. G2 I mana screw him. G3 I raven s crime his hand away. He is low on mana but manages to draw a sylvan library. I am at 4 life, he is a 4 life. His library finds him goyfs and win from there.
The loss against D&T was too ridiculus, he drew every single turn the best card he could have drawn that turn. G2 I manage to go through a tomodo s crypt, relic of progenitus and rest in peace. After that I am at 4 life and he is at 7 life. I have my GY filled with bloodghast. He has a board with vial@3, serra angel+jitte, mom and pyrexian revoker naming liliana. He named liliana even though he did not know at this point whether i was playing her at all. And of course I had 2 liliana in my hand. I play deed with 2 mana open and pop deed for 2. He responds by vialling Flickerwisp and removing serra avenger. GG for him, he played well anyway.
G5 and G6 I ended up in some awkward situations that make me do some thinking... I ended up missing some land drops because of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth... What is the point of mana screw them if you then fix their mana with an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth?. It happened that I had to play Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and they got obvious benefits from that. It also happened that I didn t play Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth not to fix their mana and then should have needed that. I dont really know what to do about that. It is simply awsome to turn your mishra s factory and tabernacle into swamps when you need to cast hymn and liliana. But it is really frustrating to loose games because of it. Maybe I ll try to cut 1 (or 2?) and see how it performs.
Also, sylvan library is a bitch. If you don t have a fast clock it is gonna steal you the game eventually. I wished I played more abrupt decay.
By the way I was content on how bloodghast performed. The fact that you don t have to invest any mana in getting a clock going is really good. You can spend your time loaming and disrupting the opponent while bloodghast gets online and start beating. The fact that it gets haste is also very relevant, so that the opponent doesn t have time to recover after a sweeper.
@ Shawon: I think maze of it is an OK card in this deck and it could be played. However, I don t like it for the simple reason that it doesn t get rid of the problem. You cannot attack with your mishra s factory if you have a 5/6 tarmogoyf in front of you. We need to have the board clean. It is not good enough to deserve a spot between the lands and It is not good enough to deserve a spot between the removal spells. I d rather play a more stable mana base or play an extra abrupt decay than playing maze of ith. However, I think it is mostly a matter of taste.
It's not a matter of taste if you think are flat-out better cards.
I actually scrolled up and looking at your list, I can understand why you wouldn't want Maze instead of other removal as you really don't have too much, given that another portion of your deck is focused on abusing the graveyard. My Smallpox variants were streamlined to just contain Attrition + Lands + Trumps and used minimal graveyard abuse (Nether Spirit & Dakmor Salvage w00t w00t), and I definitely think Maze is a wonderful card in such variants because it preserves itself in the long game of attrition. Although, I don't think Maze would be horrible in your deck, either. You have LftL and Entomb, so having the option to Entomb for a Maze if you have Loam in your hand gives you an option to buy time until you land any bombs (Liliana, Deed, Pox). But I can understand your need to prioritize removal. I would make some critiques on the other removal you're using, but I have retired from playing Smallpox decks and besides, I only wanted to talk about Maze.
Ugh.
Went 0-2 tonight (at Card Kingdom in Seattle), then got a bye, and decided not to wait around an hour to play one final round.
Lost Round 1 to Mono-Red Burn. Not a good matchup, and my discard and land destruction didn't do a thorough enough job to overcome the odds.
Round 2 I played Bant Stoneblade. Or call it WUG Delver with a Stoneblade pakcage and Swords to Plowshares. Anyway, again, it wasn't pretty. To summarize the matchup, I wasn't able to draw or play answers at the rate he was playing threats.
I need to improve when it comes to choosing when to draw versus when to dredge. That seems like a big hurdle for the pilot of a BG Pox deck to overcome. I'd like to play enough of the deck to have a good sense from one game to the next which situations demand drawing and which dredging. For now, it seems like when I'm stable in terms of board state and I need to find a win-con, I should dredge. If I like my hand, it's okay to dredge. If I need a big answer that I don't have (and a Darkblast in the GY won't cut it), I need to draw. This is a gross oversimplification, but I'm just trying to articulate some rules of thumb while I gain experience enough to have good instincts with the deck.
I did bring in two Entomb before tonight, removing two Pox. They seemed okay, and certainly the Pox would not have been worse. In fact, I doubt I would have been able to cast the Pox at any point.
I would love to hear what you have to say, please go on. I think that everybody can benefit from that.
@berksowl: the "gross oversimplification" is correct. But you are right that sometimes the line is not that clear. It takes a while before feeling confident playing with this deck and that is the reason why my build is so GY-centered. Unless I have to answer a permanent I want to dredge. Hence, I want that many cards in my deck do something from the GY.
By the way Mono-Red Burn is possibly the worst MU for this deck so dont be too disappointed
I played BG Pox yesterday at another event at Card Kingdom in Seattle. It was a 31-person event I think, and I went 1-3-1. I didn't play brilliantly, but I think I'm learning a thing or two about how to play with some cards that are pretty new to me. My list is attached at the end for reference, including some weird new tech.
Round 1, I was paired against RUG Delver. I lost miserably in game 1 once he flipped a Delver, countered my Smallpox, flipped another Delver, and countered another Smallpox. Round 2 I was able to wipe away his board and get Liliana ticking ever upward. He attacked into Liliana when I had an Entomb in my hand, which I cast in response putting Vengeful Pharaoh in my GY and targeting his Goyf. Then I won with two Assembly Workers. Game 3 was similar to Game 2, except that I was able to cast the Pharaoh and win faster.
Round 2 I lost in two to a UB Tezzeret/Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek deck. I never had a chance, especially not with bad mulliganing in Game 2.
Round 3 and 4 I lost to RUG Delver. With Bloodghast and Pharaoh as my creatures, there's not much I can do against an attacking Mongoose, except block and attempt to pump and trade with an Assembly Worker. This wasn't a winning strategy, and I couldn't find the cards that would have bailed me out, and I couldn't get going with the Loam/dredge cycle to find them via the GY.
Round 5 I drew with UW Miracles. I won Game 1, taking about 37 minutes to win. Abrupt Decay was huge, as was a resolved Liliana. Once I had cast Life from the Loam once, I was able to use Raven's Crime to strip has hand completely. Late game I had a handful of lands in my GY, I cracked four more fetches, only finding two lands to replace them, then cast a second Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to legend rule the other one. If ever someone telegraphed a forthcoming Worm Harvest... But he had been floating a Force of Will with his three Tops in play, and he hardcast it. I was then able to win without retracing the Worm Harvest with two Bloodghast and an Assembly Worker. Game 2, he resolved an early Rest in Peace. I very quickly got Liliana up to be able to perform her ultimate, and I made him choose between his RIP and a top Top and four lands. He took the Top and lands. Next turn he cast another RIP, and then Enlightened Tutored for a Helm of Obedience. Game over, with no time for a Game 3.
2 Bloodghast
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
3 Entomb
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
1 Worm Harvest
1 Barren Moor
2 Bayou
1 Cabal Pit
1 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
SB
2 Damnation
2 Duress
2 Coffin Purge
2 Krosan Grip
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Zuran Orb
thank you for the report!
The Vengeful Pharaoh tech seems awsome. Does it actually work? It seems like it was relevant R1 to get rid of his goyf. Round 3 and 4 you say it was awkward because it cannot target mongoose, however, it can get rid of 2/3 of RUG delver creatures so it seems very relevant anyway. We play smallpox/deed that can get rid of mongoose. Apart from hexproof/shroud creatures, is Vengeful Pharaoh reliable enough as creature hate? I really want to try it out.
It sounds like Worm Harvest was cluncky, did you wish it was another win condition?
Did you miss nether spirit at any time?
how did you like the 4-1-1 split Abrupt Decay-Maelstrom Pulse-Pernicious Deed?
thanks!
Vengeful Pharaoh works, yes. But maybe not well enough and not enough of the time. It is perhaps "too cute." It's really more of a defensive card, and something that has to be played around, sort of like a Ghostly Prison. But as long as they're playing around it, it's not going to come out of the GY. So in that way, it's pretty conditional as a win con. But the things I like about it: With an Entomb in hand, and a Pharaoh in my library, that first attack phase for them is a real shock. If I have mana to cast it the next turn, then I've just put them on a pretty short clock. If I dredge it into my GY, a lot of players won't notice it or won't take the time to read it. Then when they attack and I (or a planeswalker I control) take damage and I mention that it triggers, they're surprised.
Granted, I don't want to base my opinion of the card in what mediocre players will do against the card. But even a good player needs to figure out a way to deal with the triggered ability. And since I'm playing it on the slot where I'd generally be playing 2x Cursed Scroll or 2x The Rack, I really like that I don't need to draw into it.
That feels like this decks weakness: It has trouble finding the answers that it must draw into. Liliana. Abrupt Decay. Maelstrom Pulse. Pernicious Deed. Hymn and Inquisition of Kozilek do best in your opening hand, but you don't want to rely on starting the game with those other four spells in your hand. It makes me want to play 2x Mirri's Guile. Curious to hear what others think of that. It would help a lot with a Loam or Darkblast int he GY, in order to know whether to draw or dredge.
I think Deed belongs in my SB. I'll probably play 2x Maelstrom Pulse from now on.
Worm Harvest is clunky, but as a one-of I think it makes sense.
The Bloodghasts weren't great. Nether Spirit is good, but with the Vengeful Pharaohs it doesn't make as much sense. I've tested 2x Stinkweed Imp in place of the Bloodghast/Nether Spirit. It works well to get other dredge cards into the yard, or to get Pharaoh into the yard, but it's slower to get into play as an attacker. And also, since Pharaoh is a zombie, I've thought of 4x Gravecrawler.
I think you are right, the deck could immensly benefit from library manipulation. We want to force the game to go in topdeck mode but if the opponent has casted a top or a sylvan library we are often going to get screwed. It happened to me multiple times. There are some good options out there mirri s guile, Sensei's Divining Top, sylvan library. The problem I have with all those is that they are not recurrable from the GY. Also, what would you cut for it? I can only see cutting entomb. It is worth a try I think. However, I would be more inclined to play either top or guile since library costs 2 mana.
I think gravecrawler will always be worse than bloodghast in this deck.
I have 2 things buzzing in my head and I d like to hear someone s opinion. The first thing is 4 dark confidant in the SB. Lands decks do that. People will side in GY hate and will side out creature removals against us. An unanswered T2 dark confidant is many times gg and we have a pretty low mana curve anyway. Ok, it doesn t synergise with smallpox but it may be worth a try?
The second thing is a bit more far out. I was thinking about using Buried Ruin to get even more value out of the GY. In that case it would be less awkward to dredge away sweepers because we could recur them. I am thinking of life from the loam + buried ruin + Engineered explosives/oblivion stone. In that case I could swap Pernicious deed/maelstom pulse to EE/oblivion stone. That could allow a dredged Sensei's Divining Top to be played as well. I may be going too far but I was just considering it.
went to a 31 players event and ended up 4-2. Won against D&T, BUG (shardless agent), food chain-Misthollow Griffin combo and infect. Lost against BUG control and Deadguy ale. This time I added to the deck 3 sensei s divining top, 1 engineering explosives, 1 buried ruin and 1 (extra) darkblast. I neither played entomb nor maelstrom pulse and liliana/inquisition of kozilek went down to 3 copies.
My loss to BUG control was due to a jace one game and tombstalker the other game. The loss to Deadguy ale was due to plainswalkers one game and too many spirit tokens the other game.
take home messages:
sensei s divining top was really good, even better than I expected. If you have a loam/darkblast in the graveyard you can look at 6 cards deep every turn meaning that you are gonna find the liliana/deed/abrupt decay you are looking for. Dark confidant was good especially with top, but not extraordinary. The same was for buried ruin/Engineering explosives.
Hi everyone,
I know this question may sounds stupid but I would appreciate if you guys could enlighten me about it: I know it's pretty obvious that "Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth" adds the basic land type swamp to the other lands, but why is it that necessary to have that? Is it because of the double black mana cost of some of the cards?
Thanks!
Yup, It is a necessity to have some number of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. You want to reliably have double black by turn 2 and you cannot do without 4 Mishra's Factory and 4 Wasteland. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is a necessary evil.
It's always fun to be able to tap a fetchland or even, say, a Maze of Ith for black mana. It's also cool if you're playing a Swampwalk creature.
Thanks for answering. I noticed that most of the list run Nether Spirit/Bloodgast/Factories, so is there any good quality swampwalk creature we would put in the maindeck or even sideboard? And since Urborg fixes opponents' lands as well, will you guys think that it's a drawback?
Filth is a creature with Swampwalk that's been suggested for Pox decks, though I've not tested it.
I played against a variation of this deck splashing white. He had Swords to Plowshares and Lingering Souls from white. For discard he played Cabal Therapies (very good with Lingering Souls) in addition to Hymn to Tourachs. He had at least 2 Maze of Iths (could be a total of 3 or 4 I don't know) and a number of Crop Rotations to find his utility lands. It gave my RUG deck a run for its money.
I really liked the splash for white as it gave him a lot of spot removal power (in addition to Abrupt Decays). Also the Lingering Souls-Cabal Therapy package is better against combo than Thoughtseize/Kozilek. The same goes for the Raven's Crime as well but having Lingering Souls in there recurring multiple times gives this deck a lot of power since its going for heavy resource denial and Lingering Souls is an incredible resource boost to further unbalance things.
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