[Deck] Welder Survival 2K7

[Atwa]

This is the deck a couple of guys played at worlds. Since I've always had a fetish for toolbox based control decks, I've tested it a couple of rounds on MWS and it is kind of strong.

Land:
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
2 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Savannah
1 Tree of Tales

Creatures:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Goblin Welder
2 Mesmeric Fiend
2 Shield Sphere
2 Sundering Titan
1 Anger
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Platinum Angel
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Triskelion

Other Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Survival of the Fittest
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Chrome Mox
2 Mox Diamond

Sideboard:
4 Pyroclasm
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Genesis
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Wispmare
1 Shriekmaw

First Impresions:
Overal, the deck seems strong. I'm not quite sure how it handles the current meta, but in a vaccuum it's a beast. I do have a feeling however, the deck isn't finished. I've discovered some raw edges in the couple of games I've played which wouldn't have been there if it had been tested and developed decently. I get the feeling the deck was build in a hurry.

Changes I want to test right now:
-2 Polluted Delta
+1 Tropical Island
+1 ????

I also want to put shriekmaw in the maindeck. Goys is played too much to ignore. Sure, this deck could care less when you have a 7/10 online, but you might not even get there with goys trampling your face.

I also want to try Genesis maindeck, since this deck plays no Eternal Witness and I really feel survival decks must have a recur engine maindeck (other than the Angel/Titan/Lion combo).

What do you guys think?

[Lukas Preuss]

Is Cabal Ritual in the maindeck supposed to be Cabal Therapy?

Well, I think in a vacuum, this deck looks rather strong, but Pithing Needle and Tormod's Crypt are probably two of the most played sideboard cards in the format and both hit this deck rather strong.

Also, the 2/2 split of the moxes seems odd, maybe that's just personal, but I'd rather play one or the other.


Oh, and Tarmogoyf should find its place... ;)

[troopatroop]

Is Cabal Ritual in the maindeck supposed to be Cabal Therapy?

Well, I think in a vacuum, this deck looks rather strong, but Pithing Needle and Tormod's Crypt are probably two of the most played sideboard cards in the format and both hit this deck rather strong.

Also, the 2/2 split of the moxes seems odd, maybe that's just personal, but I'd rather play one or the other.


Oh, and Tarmogoyf should find its place... ;)

I'm not actually sure if Tarmogoyf fits actually. Welder Survival is a very slot hungry deck. I would be more inclined to stay more focussed on Welding and Survivaling then winning in the combat step.

[Atwa]

Is Cabal Ritual in the maindeck supposed to be Cabal Therapy?

Fixed.

I agree with you that both Tormod's Crypt and Pithing Neelde seem very strong, esspecially with only one card to combat them (Harmonic Sliver).

The first thing I tried when testing, was to make some room for Tarmogoyf, but I even have problems sideboarding, so thight are the spots in the deck.

[Illissius]

What is better about this list compared to all the old ones which failed (or, at the least, stopped seeing play)? It doesn't look especially strong -- most of the cards seem weak or slow without Survival, and sometimes with it -- and there's plenty of seemingly odd choices like the two-and-two Moxen, two Shield Spheres, singleton Tree of Tales (is there an Intuition pile with it or something?), and three Therapy plus two Fiends. Using Intuition to find Survival looks slow and you can't set up Welder with it (no maindeck Genesis even) if you haven't already drawn it. Welder does approximately nothing without Survival or Intuition, and is going to die instantly much of time, making you reliant on Survival+Anger to get it going. And you only have five disruption spells to make any of your stuff resolve, two of which die to removal themselves. Overall, the deck seems to me to be highly reliant on getting just the right kind of draw, and then not getting it disrupted in pretty much any way.

The deck did go 5-0, so this is more a statement of puzzlement than of disdain.

[Mental]

What is better about this list compared to all the old ones which failed (or, at the least, stopped seeing play)? It doesn't look especially strong -- most of the cards seem weak or slow without Survival, and sometimes with it -- and there's plenty of seemingly odd choices like the two-and-two Moxen, two Shield Spheres, singleton Tree of Tales (is there an Intuition pile with it or something?), and three Therapy plus two Fiends. Using Intuition to find Survival looks slow and you can't set up Welder with it (no maindeck Genesis even) if you haven't already drawn it. Welder does approximately nothing without Survival or Intuition, and is going to die instantly much of time, making you reliant on Survival+Anger to get it going. And you only have five disruption spells to make any of your stuff resolve, two of which die to removal themselves. Overall, the deck seems to me to be highly reliant on getting just the right kind of draw, and then not getting it disrupted in pretty much any way.

The deck did go 5-0, so this is more a statement of puzzlement than of disdain.

I'm no expert, but it looks like this deck doesn't NEED survival to work. Turn 1 Welder, Turn 2 Therapy myself dumping titan, Shield Sphere, Weld for Titan.
I'll be testing this ASAP, the list looks pretty good to me.

[Tao]

Since it is already december, how about Welder Survival 2K8?

[Illissius]

I'm no expert, but it looks like this deck doesn't NEED survival to work. Turn 1 Welder, Turn 2 Therapy myself dumping titan, Shield Sphere, Weld for Titan.
I'll be testing this ASAP, the list looks pretty good to me.

You have four Welders, three Therapies, seven cheap artifacts to Weld out, and four big artifacts to Weld in. That's effectively a four card combo. The odds of drawing it don't look good, not to mention resolving and protecting it.

[Mental]

You have four Welders, three Therapies, seven cheap artifacts to Weld out, and four big artifacts to Weld in. That's effectively a four card combo. The odds of drawing it don't look good, not to mention resolving and protecting it.

I just did it on MWS ;)

[Jak]

I just did it on MWS ;)

Aesome. Do it again.

I wonder how he played the deck. It seems extremely difficult to pilot this to a 5 and 0 record. How consistant is this?

[Mental]

Aesome. Do it again.

I wonder how he played the deck. It seems extremely difficult to pilot this to a 5 and 0 record. How consistant is this?

Well, I just won a game, steamrolling affinity. Basically I intuition for Survival on T2 off Mox Diamond, dropped it, and already had an active welder. So turn 3 I welded Trike into play, killed his board. Then I got 2 more welders and kept doing it. Eventually I beat him to death with Platinum Angel and when he was at 3 Weldered in Trike FTW.
Overall, it felt pretty strong.

[Benie Bederios]

Well, I just won a game, steamrolling affinity. Basically I intuition for Survival on T2 off Mox Diamond, dropped it, and already had an active welder. So turn 3 I welded Trike into play, killed his board. Then I got 2 more welders and kept doing it. Eventually I beat him to death with Platinum Angel and when he was at 3 Weldered in Trike FTW.
Overall, it felt pretty strong.

Did you played postboard too. Without hate this deck can battle aggro quite good, but if your opponent boards in Needles and Crypt( both very common for a Affinity deck) you are in for a though matchup. Both cards can come online turn 1 and you have to play around it, while it won't the affect the affinity player alot.

I myself play Gr Welder Survival( hate splashing for other colors) and allthough I win game 1 alot of time, game 2 and 3 are a real struggle, and I normally win them of the back of Tarmogoyf and other cheap beaters.

But yeah, the deck got a good result in a field where there was alot of Thresh so the deck can't be really bad. Maybe the deck had the luck, that most hate was in sideboards to fight of other Threshold decks and Goblins...

BB

[Mental]

Did you played postboard too. Without hate this deck can battle aggro quite good, but if your opponent boards in Needles and Crypt( both very common for a Affinity deck) you are in for a though matchup. Both cards can come online turn 1 and you have to play around it, while it won't the affect the affinity player alot.

I myself play Gr Welder Survival( hate splashing for other colors) and allthough I win game 1 alot of time, game 2 and 3 are a real struggle, and I normally win them of the back of Tarmogoyf and other cheap beaters.

But yeah, the deck got a good result in a field where there was alot of Thresh so the deck can't be really bad. Maybe the deck had the luck, that most hate was in sideboards to fight of other Threshold decks and Goblins...

BB

No, I took a shower. I do imagine I'd have a harder game post board, and I should have had a tough one pre board because doesn't most affinity MB Pithing Needle? Anyhow, I'm thinking we could want more than 1 creature that can kill Artifacts - howabout 3, so we can Intuition for them? Also Eternal Witness should be in the board, IMO, because they will side in Enchantment hate. I'd run 3 Eternal Witnesses SB, and 3 Harmonic Slivers? Or does 2 Harmonic Slivers, 1 Ingot Chewer sounds better? (SB of course)

[Illissius]

If you want to Intuition or Survival for multiple copies of artifact kill, I'd go with a single Chewer or Sliver plus Witnesses and Genesis. If you want to draw more artifact kill, Krosan Grip. There's quite a few artifacts and enchantments you hate to see (Needle, Crypt, Leyline, Humility, Counterbalance, ...), and Grip is the best at making certain they die.

I'd consider sticking a set of Tarmogoyfs or something in the side, to try to ignore some of the hate rather than fight through it, which would be an uphill battle.

[MattH]

I proxied this up today. So far I've decided that while it's nothing revolutionary, it did teach me a few things:

1. that a five-color manabase really can actually work. Who would have thought?
2. the 2/2 mox split actually feels correct. Mox Diamond is insanely good but I don't think the deck could support 4, and probably not even 3.

I really really felt the lack of Genesis maindeck. I would absolutely look to put 4 Goyfs in the board. Sharpshooter seems pretty weak on paper.

[bigredmeanie]

I can tell you exactly how to play this deck. Like a combo deck. Your goal should be to protect a Survival via discard, then win on the back of a hasty Titan on turn 3. It's actually not that hard considering now you can play a Survival on turn 1. Mulligan Mulligan Mulligan! Thats also why there is no Genesis.

Thirst for Knowledge is also pretty stong in the deck, perhaps as a replacement for Brainstorm.

If you are looking for room for Goyf I know where you put them.

-1 Shield Sphere
-1 Platinum Angel This card does nothing but create a false sense of security while providing only a very slow clock, and can sometimes be the only artifact in play.
-2 Mesmeric Fiend Good but to slow for your objective.

+3 Gouf
+1 Cabal Therapy

Also somewhere you have to add at LEAST 2 more Tree of Tales, that is mandatory.

Pyroclasm is completely unnecessary in the board. This deck demolishes aggro of every kind. Welding a Trike for a Trike is a nice way to kill their board or their life. If you are worried about excess Goyfs, play a Duplicant in the board.

Cut a land

4 mox
4 Birds
22 lands

In case you can't add that's 30 mana sources. Also a lot. I cut a land for another spell slot.

[Happy Gilmore]

this seems like it has real potential, not to mention that it gives all those people who have been itching to do something with welder a chance to break out their sets. I like intuition a lot in this deck.

and the first card to add to this deck is Eternal Witness...its silly not to have alteast two somewhere. I personally don't like the moxen but to each his own.

I like
-2 mox Diamond
-2 Mesmeric Fiend
-1 Shield Sphere
-2 Delta

+1 Cabal Therapy
+1 Chrome Mox
+3 Eternal Witness
+1 Tropical Island
+1 Tree of Tales

[freakish777]

The first card I would try and add is Quirion Ranger...

[Jak]

I tried to make this deck a while back. I felt that adding Welder and Titan made the deck more of a combo and less of an aggro deck, so I was trying to add some protection and disruptive spells.

22 Lands

2 Chrome Mox
2 Mox Diamond
(split looks like it would work)
4 BoP

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Cabal Therapy

4 Survival
4 Intuition
3 TfK
4 Brainstorm

4 Welder
1 TSH
1 Genesis
1 Anger
1 Squee
4 Goyf
1 Platinum Angel
2 Sundering Titan

4 Cards over, but looks good. Back up Goyf plan and a ton of disruptive cards. Also has better draw. Thoughts?

Edit- Decided it would look better to try and cut some cards.

-1 TfK
-1 Therapy
-1 Witness (wanted to keep but Genesis seemed stronger)

Not sure what else.

[bigredmeanie]

The first card I would try and add is Quirion Ranger...

It's pretty solid actually. It's really important as a means to protect your Taiga from your own Titan. You end up geddoning the board, but you get to play your Taiga every turn and attack anyway.

Trike has to be in the deck. His versatility is to important to discount. He generates tons of card advantage, not to mention speeding up the clock, by an entire turn.


For the few comments about Crypt. Thid deck shouldnt care that much. It's actually really easy to play around, and you end up forcing them to blow it just for 1 Titan or Trike, and better yet if you can play a Q.Ranger and a Welder it won't even stop the exchange.


@ Jak 19 cards isn't enough to support Fow, and you won't often have extra Islands in play to return for Daze due to your own Titan. Genesis is not stronger than Witness in this deck. You don't run enough creatures you care to return to your hand, and you'll Intuition for Survival occasionaly, being able to Witness one back is good. Shield Sphere is good, and must be in the deck.