[Deck] Merfolk

[Azdraël]

Diminish>>>>> Agony Warp

[Hanni]

Doom Blade > Agony Warp

[kiblast]

I disagree. Splashing withe is very hard to do since they have yet to print the blue/withe dual land, or even a withe fetch. In fact, withe isn't even a color and has 0 cards in magic the gathering. So I think splashing black is better IMHO.

People have never ran gofys in merfolk, sorry.

yeah, i'm sorry. late night+ some 66 heinekens + a bit sleepy. Oh, they should really print some tarmogoofys, at least in their next UN-something set.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

God, but it's great to see the conversation in this thread stay so consistently on-track.

[kihachi]

I'm putting together a Merfolk build for Columbus as we speak. Basically, I'm going to be the guy (one of many, I'm sure) that shows up without having tested and gets completely rolled over. But it's gonna be fun anyways. To the point...

I'll probably be bringing the mono-U 16 lords build, just like Alex Bertoncini's, since it's proven and I don't have time to test. But I have no idea what to put in the sideboard. For those of you who have played with Mind Harness, is the upkeep too taxing or are you winning before it becomes an issue? It seems like a good way to deal with goyfs + red stuff. Sowers might be a bad option since they can bolt it for a 2 for 1 of sorts, but I do have them, so would those be workable? Threads might be better, but like others have said it misses larger non-goyf dudes, and can still be offed with a Pridemage or Grip. How do these answers compare to Submerge, which is more of a tempo move, but can always respond to a fetchland to kill a goyf? Sorry for all the questions, I just haven't played much with any of these cards, and I thought the topic could return to SB discussion.

Finally, I'd like to know peoples' thoughts about how many Zoo/Goyf answers are needed in the SB (in a 16 lords deck that plays Kira MB), versus more general answers like Back to Basics, Propaganda and and Spell Pierce (not in the MB) or other hosers like BEB or Llawan. Thanks!

[mans0011]

I really like Kira. I've not had a chance to play her, really. But man... I remember her from the days of Kamigawa Standard and she was awesome. Also, I like Thada Adel in the sideboard.

[4eak]

If it isn't already, (and if the deck is going to survive, which I'm not even sure about yet ) I believe Kira is likely to become a staple for the deck.

Where do you want to bring in Thada Adel? Possible targets that I'm actually interested in by the time I can connect with Thada (turn 4 earliest):

• Engineered Explosives
• Vedalken Shackles
• Umezawa's Jitte
• Sword of the Meek (almost always a singleton)

These are mostly defensive picks, so they can't use it against me. These cards are primarily used in decks which are often already decent matchups though (Jitte being the occasional exception); Cold-Eyed Selkie is generally just flat out better in these cases; I'm most worried about Zoo; let's hope blue-based dedicated control decks increase in viability and pwn Zoo's face.



peace,
4eak

[mans0011]

Hmm, you make a good point. Selkie is the hawtness.

I agree, Thada is mostly just cute. Selkie, on the other hand, when combined with Kira and all of our Lords/unblockable/island walking, etc can be REALLY dangerous to our opponent.

Are you looking at putting Selkie main or putting her in the side to swap out with Daze/Force/Pierce in Zoo?

[4eak]

Are you looking at putting Selkie main or putting her in the side to swap out with Daze/Force/Pierce in Zoo?

Neither at the moment. I said Selkie was better than Thada, but I didn't say Selkie was worth playing either. The point is that, for now, neither card improves the matchups I am most worried about. At this point, I'm willing to lose ground against opposing blue decks (to some extent) to gain ground against Red and Green based aggro decks. If we are to assume that the deck should evolve to beat many non-blue decks (particularly Zoo), Selkie (and thus Thada) are completely out of the question.

If, however, blue-based dedicated control actually becomes a top contender (I'm not holding my breath), or if bad matchups like Zoo truly destabilize the the presence of blue-based decks in the general metagame (thus making Merfolk a purely specific metagame deck in undeveloped or skewed metagames--like much of the Established Forum), then Selkie may become a reasonable choice. We basically need to see a lot more or a lot less Islands in the overall metagame for Selkie to become a viable card.



peace,
4eak

[Malakai]

Diminish>>>>> Agony Warp

What? How the hell did this become the topic? Agony Warp. Someone was going to splash fucking black for Agony Warp? The mind reels. Do keep in mind the Threads of Disloyalty, Control Magic, and Submerge all exist.

I do love this thread though. It's the only one on the source pushing 200 pages without accomplishing anything.

[Curby]

If we're splashing black, wouldn't Perish help a lot? It gets rid of Zoo's biggest threats. There's still the burn component of their decks to worry about, but it's still a many-for-one trade. Also useful against the odd Elf deck and Progenitus. What cards besides blue blasts do people currently use against Zoo? If Zoo's the biggest reason for Blue blasts and you're splashing black anyway, Perish might be a better choice. That's not to say that you should splash black just for Perish but it's an idea for those already thinking about it.

[kiblast]

What? How the hell did this become the topic? Agony Warp. Someone was going to splash fucking black for Agony Warp? The mind reels. Do keep in mind the Threads of Disloyalty, Control Magic, and Submerge all exist.

I do love this thread though. It's the only one on the source pushing 200 pages without accomplishing anything.

the point was that maybe splashing black>splashing white. BUT monoU>UB>UW.
Thada adel will be nice after Scars of Mirrodin, when (maybe) we will have new Stax, 5/3 aggro builds, and so on.Now is almost useless and not worth 1-2 slots in sb.However, i suggest buying a set.
Selkie is useless. Improves MU we dont need to be improved.

[Malakai]

I recently cut Standstills, following the example of a couple people/decklists that placed well at large SCG tournaments. I was a doubter of the 16 lords plan, but playing with them feels extremely strong--definitely the way to go.

Anyway, cutting Standstills has caused me to look at the rest of the cards in the deck, so my question is this:

In order to increase our game against Zoo et. al. and the mirror, do you think cutting Cursecatchers from the main and replacing them with more relevant cards could be the answer?

Some example cards:
Equipment
Kira
Control Magic
Spell Snare
Spell Pierce
Stifle
Redirect
Cosi's Trickster
Sejiri Merfolk
Either Sygg
...Tarmogoyf?

[Tru3z3rox]

I recently cut Standstills, following the example of a couple people/decklists that placed well at large SCG tournaments. I was a doubter of the 16 lords plan, but playing with them feels extremely strong--definitely the way to go.

Anyway, cutting Standstills has caused me to look at the rest of the cards in the deck, so my question is this:

In order to increase our game against Zoo et. al. and the mirror, do you think cutting Cursecatchers from the main and replacing them with more relevant cards could be the answer?

Some example cards:
Equipment
Kira
Control Magic
Spell Snare
Spell Pierce
Stifle
Redirect
Cosi's Trickster
Sejiri Merfolk
Either Sygg
...Tarmogoyf?

Cursecatchers are our best turn 1 plays aside from dropping a vial. Nothing can really replace it and anyway I already run 2 Kira in the main. The only other thing I can think of that would come close is Cosi's Trickster, but even that is underwhelming most of the time. Just because combo is on a downturn doesn't mean we should punt the matchup.

[Tru3z3rox]

I recently cut Standstills, following the example of a couple people/decklists that placed well at large SCG tournaments. I was a doubter of the 16 lords plan, but playing with them feels extremely strong--definitely the way to go.

Anyway, cutting Standstills has caused me to look at the rest of the cards in the deck, so my question is this:

In order to increase our game against Zoo et. al. and the mirror, do you think cutting Cursecatchers from the main and replacing them with more relevant cards could be the answer?

Some example cards:
Equipment
Kira
Control Magic
Spell Snare
Spell Pierce
Stifle
Redirect
Cosi's Trickster
Sejiri Merfolk
Either Sygg
...Tarmogoyf?

Cursecatchers are our best turn 1 plays aside from dropping a vial. Nothing can really replace it and anyway I already run 2 Kira in the main. The only other thing I can think of that would come close is Cosi's Trickster, but even that is underwhelming most of the time. Just because combo is on a downturn doesn't mean we should punt the matchup.

[Curby]

I guess the thing to do is first consider how to best attack the Zoo MU. Do we go for broad sweepers and big moves (e.g. the Perish idea I had suggested above for the Black splash) or do we go for cheap point removal, e.g. Mind Harness, Submerge, StP for the White splash, etc. It was said in the past that the StP+PtE plan was our best bet at beating Zoo, but everyone plays mono-blue now in spite of Zoo being the most popular deck in competitive Legacy. What has changed to make people drop white even when one of our worst MUs is also one of the most likely?

I think Kira is an awesome choice for the MU, given that she just about guarantees a 2-for-1 exchange. At the same time, she's enough of a lightning rod that playing 3-4 copies of her isn't a problem even though she's a Legend: Zoo will want to get rid of her anyway unless you're so far behind that they can just aim everything at your head and attack through your guys. The biggest problems are the 3-mana cost and the fact that she can't save you if you're really far behind, as described above.

[owenzzz]

Hi,

I was currently reviewing my decklist and I would like to ask if Back to Basics will be a good SB plan? This would definitely slowdown Zoo due to dual land dependency. Is there someone who already did this?

Splashing black will give me access to both Smother, Perish and Engineered Plague (GOBLINS). but I need to put fetchlands and prone to Wasteland effect. Is there someone who have tested this build??

Thanks

[Curby]

Pretty much every Zoo list runs one of each basic land, so you may slow them down a little but it's hardly a rout. I just wish Blue had something better than Hibernation or Acid Rain for hosing Green.

[(nameless one)]

I do love this thread though. It's the only one on the source pushing 200 pages without accomplishing anything.

At least it is not as bad as 80 pages of trolling (you know which Established Deck I'm talking about).

Back the Merfolks:

I noticed that a lot of Merfolk lists have resorted to 16+ lords (and ultimately cutting Standstills). This pretty much ends the Standstill-lists for merfolks.

Now the question is: what happens when all these board control decks start popping out to beat Zoo/Goblins and the rest of the aggro world? Keep in mind, board control decks also gained a lot with the shafting of Combo decks. Even then, there are still viable combo decks out there that were not affected with the post-tutor bannings. Are we hastily switching our maindecks to accomodate our needs to beat these forementioned aggro-decks?

Would the old Standstill-lists be reincarnated to beat these board control decks? Granted, these old lists aren't as effective against Lands.dec but there are other board control decks out there that might just start busting out (such as Enchantress, Aggro-loam, Rock, Staxx and Quinn).

I am not saying that these 16+ lord lists are going the wrong way but have you guys ever tested your decks against format's Board Control decks?

Have we really not accomplished anything?

[Rood]

I know it goes against the gameplan of Vial, but against Zoo what about something like
-4 Vial
+4 EE

EE gives you a huge sweeper for all their 1 drops considering Merfolk only runs 4 Cursecatchers I can't see it being that much of a problem.
Perish is too narrow IMO it doesn't even answer Lynx, Mancer, Ape, etc. Also could use Spell Pierces/Divert along side the EEs