[Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

[Captain Hammer]

Why is the discussion here dead, with Deathrite Shaman, Liliana, Phyrexian Obliterator and Abrupt Decay, this deck is more powerful and more viable than it has ever been...

Deck Name: Su Black
// Lands (22)
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Forest

// Creatures (17)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Vampire Nighthawk

// Spells (21)
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

I'm still debating Sylvan Library vs. Sensei's Divining Top so if you think one is better than the other for this deck, I would love to hear your input.

[jtos84]

I had a lot of success with a similar list that used Death's Shadow. I will have to try out Tasigur and see if the list is viable.

[Kanti]

Top seems better on account of it dodging your Deeds.

[Chatto]

How good is Liliana? I know she's good, but is she good enough at this moment?

Is there anyway you would include DD/ Stage? I really like that one as a 'taadaa'!

[dameus]

I think this is a fun deck

Suggestions:
Hooting Mandrills over Tasigur
Grisly Salvage works well w/ Goyf and Delver critters
I wouldn't MD Deed
Waste Not seems like it's worth a try
I prefer Oona's Prowler over Nighthawk (mainly on cost), but it's a close decision

[damionblackgear]

I'm thinking about jumping back into magic for a little bit. I've been a die-hard non-blue player and am thinking of jumping back in with Eva Green. The last time I played Eva was 2010... and it was only one time. I've gone over the last 10 or so pages of this thread for ideas and theory but I'm wondering about Deathrite Shaman. It seems slow, and more control based than something I'd like to use for tempo. I was looking at Nimble Mongoose (hard to remove beater) and Fume Spitter (assist removal) as well. I'm just not sure about devoting more slots to green or how much of an impact a 1/1 is going to be.

My current list for reference.

3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Oona's Prowler
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Phyrexian Obliterator

3 Dark Ritual
4 Abrupt Decay

1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
2 Reanimate
3 Hymn to Tourach

2 Sylvan Library

3 Liliana of the Veil

4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Bayou
1 Forest
2 Swamp

Sideboard

2 Pithing Needle
1 Nature's Claim
1 Reanimate
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Winter Orb
3 Bitterblossom
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Phyrexian Obliterator


Quick explanation/theory behind current maindeck's oddball choices.

Oona's Prowler - quick and efficient beater.
Dark Ritual - quick mana to provide temporary acceleration into something more advanced.
Reanimate - allows for reuse of a creature, combos with prowler's ability to cheat in creatures, and allows for opponent's creatures to become possible threats.

I'm avoiding creature's like Death's Shadow as they take too long to come online. I'd like my creatures to have an impact if they're able to come into play on the first turn. Mongoose has a mid-late impact as a beater and an early game threat potential. Spitter provides a little more removal (which I'm lacking, but it's suicide so...).

[I_Hate_Counterspells]

nvm

[snorlaxcom]

Why is the discussion here dead, with Deathrite Shaman, Liliana, Phyrexian Obliterator and Abrupt Decay, this deck is more powerful and more viable than it has ever been...

Deck Name: Su Black
// Lands (22)
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Forest

// Creatures (17)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Vampire Nighthawk

// Spells (21)
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

I'm still debating Sylvan Library vs. Sensei's Divining Top so if you think one is better than the other for this deck, I would love to hear your input.

3X deed goes against most of your threats, but then again you may be anticipating a miracles meta. Deed pairs well with Tombstalker and he can be played in multiples, unlike Tasigur, and even better vs counterbalance. I do like the synergy with Tasigur and DRS where you can drain or gain life in board stalls while making Tasigur's ability close to a regrowth. 4X Obliterator seems a bit much on the manabase and I can easily imagine it as dead weight in your hand. 2 should be enough. Life gain goes well with library and you have more things to do with your mana than top every turn. Letting you actually draw extra cards allows you to hit land drops/waste, feed liliana and DRS/delve, and find sb cards while saving your mana for action. Library also dodges Revoker. More legendary cards can be trimmed like an Urborg and a Jitte so you have less of a liability for opening hands and improved muligans.

I'd do:
-1Urborg, -1Tasigur, -2Obliterator, -1Jitte, -3 Deed, -2 Top
+1waste, +2Nighthawk, +2Tombstalker, +3Library, +2flex(discard/removal/threat/preboard card)

Think about switching one or two black fetches to green so you can play Decay off a forest more consistently vs bloodmoon or just so you can play your hand. Dismember is a reasonable supplementary removal spell.

[I_Hate_Counterspells]

@Captain Hammer, @jtos84, @damionblackgear: have you been testing? Any findings, thoughts, comments, updates, results?

[Zirath]

Here's a list I was working on:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Death's Shadow
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Tombstalker

1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtseize

4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Dismember

3 Sylvan Library

Sideboard
2 Duress
2 Engineered Plague
2 Krosan Grip
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sinkhole
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte

It felt pretty powerful.

[KobeBryan]

Here's a list I was working on:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Death's Shadow
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Tombstalker

1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtseize

4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Dismember

3 Sylvan Library

Sideboard
2 Duress
2 Engineered Plague
2 Krosan Grip
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sinkhole
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte

It felt pretty powerful.

Problem. 4 delve creatures

[Chatto]

Well, i like the idea of toying around with straight BG. Here is what I was thinking about:

2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Extirpate
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

2 Disfigure
2 Dismember
4 Abrupt Decay

1 Life from the Loam
3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
6 Forest
6 Swamp

Some explanation: this is what I call my basic shell. There is too much discard already (I know), and perhaps too little removal. Liliana is pretty sweet, but right now I don't think she's worth the slots. If I would fit her in, I would so by swapping her with IoK. I also like the idea of Extirpate. Combined with the discard (obviously) you could get some high value out of it: a lot of decks are low on wincons, taking some more could be backbreaking.

Any help/ advice is appreciated.

[Zirath]

Problem. 4 delve creatures

Most of the other lists are running 3 as is. If that's really a problem, then cut one for something. I honestly never had a problem casting any of them. You do not have to Delve all the colorless away to cast creatures in a 20 land deck with 0 Daze.

[KobeBryan]

Most of the other lists are running 3 as is. If that's really a problem, then cut one for something. I honestly never had a problem casting any of them. You do not have to Delve all the colorless away to cast creatures in a 20 land deck with 0 Daze.

Not the matter of being able to cast eventually. Its the problem with it sitting in hand until you get the ability to cast.

Please document how often that happens.

[beez]

I like the idea of this as a fun side deck, and have played a few games with it recently . Though I do own 4 Bayou's from my Loam Pox build, I don't have Goyfs and would not get them just for this deck, so I put together a build that skews to the black a bit more and actually makes some advantage of not having Goyf with the ability to delve and Shaman away at graves with impunity.

The BUG decks can throw a lot of cantrips at the delve ability, whereas here the grave buildup will not fill so fast but also doesn't have to worry about keeping Goyfs power up. In fact keeping the yards empty for opposing Goyfs is a strategy. Lilliana can help fill the grave for delve, and at least give you an asymmetrical advantage over most opponents in that regard when she is out. So 4 delve creatures hasn't seemed too much in this particular build yet. 2 Murderous Cut's might be. Perhaps I may drop one delve creature. Further play will help see if one needs to be a Dismember or Disfigure. It does suck to hold a couple in your hand, but it sucks to have a big fat graveyard and no delve creatures too. The tiny bit of ramp combines well with the delve to get some things out early. It is grave dependant to some degree, but not really damaged by extraction effects though. RIP is the worst, but there are 4 Abrupt Decay's 2 Pulses main and 2 Grips in the board.

Meanwhile Bitterblossom begins to swamp the board in the place of Goyf. I have considered a couple of Cabal Therapies here as well. The life gain from Shaman can help some of the life loss from Blossom and the couple of Elves of Deep Shadow. But this does stick to the old Suicide spirit though. And the Blossom can form a wall for the Planeswalkers in the deck too.
Garruck Relentless is actually a house against Miracles too.

Golgari Delve



1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Angler
2 Eternal Witness
2 Tombstalker
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Elves of Deep Shadow

2 Garruck Relentless
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sylvan Library
3 Bitterblossom

2 Murderous Cut
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Inquisition of Kozeliek
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
4 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Side
2 Dismember
1 Life from the Loam
2 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Duress
2 Extirpate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus



EDIT: Should probably work a Scavenging Ooze in here too. And the Elves of Deep Shadow should probably be Birds of Paradise

[Zirath]

Not the matter of being able to cast eventually. Its the problem with it sitting in hand until you get the ability to cast.

Please document how often that happens.

I really did not have that happen very often. I didn't record it at all. If I were to test the deck, I would test it. I just haven't bothered to since I didn't test it very much. I put it out there so other people could try it and see if they could make progress with it.

In the case that 4 Delve creatures are too many, what would you replace the Stalkers for (or 1 and 1)?

I also considered Grisly Salvage since it powers Delve by itself.

[damionblackgear]

@Captain Hammer, @jtos84, @damionblackgear: have you been testing? Any findings, thoughts, comments, updates, results?

I've changed up a bit. Limited testing gave me the impression that I didn't have enough to deal with early turns and was to reliant on obliterator to land against aggressive decks. Control decks were also a bit interesting since I wanted to keep them in topdeck mode but miracles play from there so discard isn't the biggest help. I've adjusted to this.


3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Oona's Prowler
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Phyrexian Obliterator

3 Dark Ritual
2 Funeral Charm
4 Abrupt Decay

4 Thoughtseize
2 Reanimate
2 Hymn to Tourach

2 Sylvan Library

3 Liliana of the Veil

3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
3 Wasteland
1 Forest
3 Swamp


I upped the swamp count to increase my chances of actually being able to cast an obliterator. I know that I can support more but I'd like to keep the thinning levels higher to improve draws throughout the game.

Funeral Charm was my answer for miracles (trigger on stack) and aggressive decks(removal/swampwalk). It hasn't been able to kill every T1 play but it does enough to be a solid 2 of for now. I had also looked at Ulcerate in this slot as well. Majority of the format's creatures wouldn't survive 3 but it's limited to creatures; I've always been a fan of options.

I don't really like Deathrite most of the time. It's slower, clunky and doesn't hit hard if I've got other things to do. Additionally it doesn't kill anything. It does however allow me to play a pseudo mana ramp spell for future turns. Because of the negatives I've looked and saw two others creatures that caught my eye.

• Bloodsoaked Champion
• Guul Draz Assassin

Both have their own Pros/Cons but I'm not sure of them. The issue is that if I remove the shamans, the chances of me casting an obliterator are lowered, drastically. If I swap them, I've got a more limited direction for the deck's ability to win (no reach).

Both of them are also able to be more aggressive earlier but require more mana to be fully utilized. Both allow me to not blow my hand against some of the other matches. Be it through allowing me to hold removal or creatures from removal(non-rfg).

Library has been a necessary evil from my testing. It's been slow and usually not used very much to draw extra cards but the selection has allowed me to attrition some of the other decks. I've been forcing myself to find an opportunity to take an extra card when I can just so that I get use to burning life.

Sideboard

1 Nature's Claim
1 Reanimate
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Bitterblossom
1 Hymn to Tourach
2 Choke
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Phyrexian Obliterator


A couple changes here. Winter Orb has been swapped with choke because I've been thinking of alternates to shaman. I liked the card and it made Miracles a bit easier of a match since it would turn Top activations into a wasted turn. I tended to like it more than Needle vs that match. They can store up but if they do then they're not taking advantage of their resources that are available. It also helped vs some of the midranged matches. Nic-Fit (real rock) for example tended to have huge issues with me stunting their abilities to play with all of their mana all the time. Typically, when paired with a Liliana, the game was pretty much over.

I decided that since I want turn zero graveyard hate (have to fight other people abusing my Prowlers) and had more than 4, Leyline of the Void was probably the better choice. It's harder for decks to remove and has an un-counterable effect. additionally, some people seem to have forgotten that this is a card and not planned an solution to one on the board... Can't say I'm surprised.

The board is 14 right now. I've had some thoughts on the last card(s) - I may change and not just add. Below are my notes for the spots. I'll give them a try but I feel they may be overcosted for the deck. We'll see over time though.

Consuming Vapors - Sorcery, 3B (4) | Rebound
Exile into Darkness - Sorcery, 4B (5) | Comes back if you have more cards in hand
Gatekeeper of Malakir - Creature — Vampire Warrior 2/2, BB (2) | Creature kicker is B
Grave Pact - Enchantment, 1BBB (4) | Multi-use, hard to get rid of.

[aznepyon7]

I've changed up a bit. Limited testing gave me the impression that I didn't have enough to deal with early turns and was to reliant on obliterator to land against aggressive decks. Control decks were also a bit interesting since I wanted to keep them in topdeck mode but miracles play from there so discard isn't the biggest help. I've adjusted to this.


3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Oona's Prowler
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Phyrexian Obliterator

3 Dark Ritual
2 Funeral Charm
4 Abrupt Decay

4 Thoughtseize
2 Reanimate
2 Hymn to Tourach

2 Sylvan Library

3 Liliana of the Veil

3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
3 Wasteland
1 Forest
3 Swamp

I would consider dropping a single thoughtseize for the deathrite shaman. I know you mentioned that you don't like the shaman but it's a necessary evil for mana ramp as you stated, prevents opponents from abusing their DSR, and keeps your life from dropping too quickly as you will be burning life very quickly. It's particularly helpful in a more aggressive meta so maybe that's why you haven't been thinking it's that great. If you're adamant against adding DSR, maybe go up to 3 for Hymn again.

Also Library is house against Miracles. You can try playing a 3rd depending on your meta.

Also how has the reanimates been working for you?

[damionblackgear]

I would consider dropping a single thoughtseize for the deathrite shaman. I know you mentioned that you don't like the shaman but it's a necessary evil for mana ramp as you stated, prevents opponents from abusing their DSR, and keeps your life from dropping too quickly as you will be burning life very quickly. It's particularly helpful in a more aggressive meta so maybe that's why you haven't been thinking it's that great. If you're adamant against adding DSR, maybe go up to 3 for Hymn again.

Also Library is house against Miracles. You can try playing a 3rd depending on your meta.

Also how has the reanimates been working for you?

I wanted to try out your suggestions before I actually replied but I ran into an issue of having too many accelerators with the 4th shaman. The extra reach was nice but I typically didn't have enough land to take advantage of more that 2 Shaman in play unless I didn't want to use the card in my hand.

Library was nice but it was one of those things that didn't really advance me more. I was nice to know another card to pitch to Lili though.

Reanimate has been pretty nice. I've forced a lot of Gristlebrands to the yard and pulled them back. Additionally the cheating in of an obliterator on Turn 1 has been pretty much a game ender. I've started looking at the other demon though... Can't think of his name and I'm short on time to look it up... it's the one that draws them a card every turn.

======

Addition - May 30th, 2015

I still haven't brought this to a tournament. I've been running rock in it's place. Testing still with friends.

Overall, I've cut back down to 2 Library. the third seemed like I wanted to be more controlling. Still testing out the 3 options in the 1cc creature slot. Nothing really changing in opinion. Want all three but only want 1 of them :(

Also trying Maelstrom Pulse in place of open sideboard slot and Nature's claim. Going to try Explosive's next. Have a bad feeling about that though. Still going to try it.

[I_Hate_Counterspells]

Does anyone know if nitewolf9 (the original author of this thread) is still around? I've pm'ed him but no response yet. Testing and getting to know this deck and perhaps the primer could be expanded, specifically for sideboarding against the newer archetypes.