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Thread: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

  1. #1961

    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I like where your thinking is going, but I think there are better options. For that mana investment there are much better cards at fighting Miracles and SnowControl.

    Sylvan Library
    Winter Orb
    Choke


    Orb requires you to have some sort of mana-denial plan, a low curve, and likely some sort of non-land mana booster (like Birds of Paradise.) Library just feeds you cards, or at least feeds you card quality with fetchlands. Choke costs an extra mana, but still does the job by locking down 2+ lands. In my experience against Snow-based decks they fetch Snow Covered Island the majority of the time, sometimes even having *only* SCI's on the field. Choke can still give you that absurd tempo-stall and let your threats take over.

    On top of all that, the cumulative upkeep is really hard to work around. The goal should be to stifle opponents mana while you continue developing. If you have to pay 2 the first turn, 4 the next turn, then sacrifice your enchantment, you are stifled yourself. If you only plan on having it for 2 turns, those turns have to really count. In the right situations it might be incredible, but I'd rather have 'good/great' in all situations rather than 'crazy good in some/useless in others'.
    So the thought on freyalise's radiance isn't to continuously pay the cumulative upkeep. The list I'm putting together is running several lurrus in the main, as well as unearth, which would let you just sac and replay radiance every turn since there's a good chance lurrus will stick.

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  2. #1962
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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilpurplemonkey View Post
    So the thought on freyalise's radiance isn't to continuously pay the cumulative upkeep. The list I'm putting together is running several lurrus in the main, as well as unearth, which would let you just sac and replay radiance every turn since there's a good chance lurrus will stick.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    If we want to play lurrus, you need to find a way to bin creatures. Lurrus isn't all too great when theres nothing in the graveyard. so this guy will only be good towards the mid to late game. With that said, if we are able to continuously fill the yard, it may be a good choice to play.

    That is why i find this card better in the sideboard to companion this baby instead because turns 1 to 10, we don't want to be casting him.

  3. #1963
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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    If we want to play lurrus, you need to find a way to bin creatures. Lurrus isn't all too great when theres nothing in the graveyard. so this guy will only be good towards the mid to late game. With that said, if we are able to continuously fill the yard, it may be a good choice to play.

    That is why i find this card better in the sideboard to companion this baby instead because turns 1 to 10, we don't want to be casting him.
    Collective Brutality comes to mind as one of the better ways to get pure card advantage with Lurrus.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  4. #1964

    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Collective Brutality comes to mind as one of the better ways to get pure card advantage with Lurrus.
    Brutality, regisaur, Liliana is what I'm running to bin things

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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Collective Brutality comes to mind as one of the better ways to get pure card advantage with Lurrus.
    This shouldn't be the way this card should be used. Lurrus is supposed to give you card advantage by being able to cast spells from your hand as well as from your grave yard.

    If you use collective to bin creatures just so you can cast with Lurrus, that would just defeat the purpose of the card and its card advantage it generates.

    That is why i suggested using a red splash for these 1 cmc creatures to bomb on people.

  6. #1966
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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    This shouldn't be the way this card should be used. Lurrus is supposed to give you card advantage by being able to cast spells from your hand as well as from your grave yard.

    If you use collective to bin creatures just so you can cast with Lurrus, that would just defeat the purpose of the card and its card advantage it generates.

    That is why i suggested using a red splash for these 1 cmc creatures to bomb on people.
    You would be getting multiple modes of Brutality, which means you're spending one card to get several effects. If you are discarding things that can then be cast again later, it's card advantage. Brutality is an incredible tempo swing by killing a dude and disrupting their hand at the same time. Casting a discarded Dark Confidant/Sylvan Library/Elvish Reclaimer/Tarmogoyf a couple turns later seems pretty good to me. If you're never really losing the card to your graveyard, it's pure card advantage.

    Yes, it's technically better to play a Confidant, make them waste a removal spell, then play Confidant again. But if you have them discard their removal spell, then still get your Confidant PLUS an extra mode on Brutality? I think that's better.

    As an aside, I don't think there is a known 'way this card should be used' just yet. It's a brand new mechanic, it's confusing AF, and the full implications haven't been proven yet.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  7. #1967
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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Samu-27 trying out a Dark Ritual build. Live right now!



    Bayous and Abrupt Decays are hiding. Leyline is sideboard and Lilis are main.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  8. #1968
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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Samu-27 trying out a Dark Ritual build. Live right now!



    Bayous and Abrupt Decays are hiding. Leyline is sideboard and Lilis are main.
    I watched it at work...oko is too much.

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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    I watched it at work...oko is too much.
    So Oko was not a fun time for this deck?

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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    So Oko was not a fun time for this deck?
    Not one bit

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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    Not one bit
    Have we considered running the Loose Goose?



    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Grim Flayer
    4 Dark Confidant
    2 Shifting Ceratops (Fuck you, Blue!)
    17

    4 Abrupt Decay
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Unearth
    1 Life from the Loam
    2 Seal of Primordium
    1 Bitterblossom
    2 Sylvan Library
    12

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 IoK
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Collective Brutality
    11

    4 Bayou
    8 Fetchlands
    4 Wasteland
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Swamp
    1 Forest
    20
    //

    3 Choke
    3 Winter Orb
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    X Whatever

    Maybe it needs Veil of Summer, whatever. Just theorycrafting.

  12. #1972
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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    Have we considered running the Loose Goose?



    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Grim Flayer
    4 Dark Confidant
    2 Shifting Ceratops (Fuck you, Blue!)
    17

    4 Abrupt Decay
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Unearth
    1 Life from the Loam
    2 Seal of Primordium
    1 Bitterblossom
    2 Sylvan Library
    12

    4 Thoughtseize
    2 IoK
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Collective Brutality
    11

    4 Bayou
    8 Fetchlands
    4 Wasteland
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Swamp
    1 Forest
    20
    //

    3 Choke
    3 Winter Orb
    4 Leyline of the Void
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    X Whatever

    Maybe it needs Veil of Summer, whatever. Just theorycrafting.
    i have a very basic eva green list with the hex drinkers and tombstalkers and bob.

    haven't really played this deck much since the competition was nasty against this deck.

    However, after looking at the new releases, two new cards are very interesting...archfiend's vessel, and village rites. I play on cockatrice a few games with the gate, unearth, bloodghast, and these two new cards. may be fun.

  13. #1973
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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    i have a very basic eva green list with the hex drinkers and tombstalkers and bob.

    haven't really played this deck much since the competition was nasty against this deck.

    However, after looking at the new releases, two new cards are very interesting...archfiend's vessel, and village rites. I play on cockatrice a few games with the gate, unearth, bloodghast, and these two new cards. may be fun.
    That’s kinda cute.

    Sac to draw 2, unearth for a 5/5. Would work with Cabal therapy too.

    Does seem like it could durdly pretty hard though
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  14. #1974

    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Does everything...


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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by streetMage View Post
    Does everything...

    This is ok. Not as useful as the new hierarch. No more dead dark rituals late game

  16. #1976
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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    This is ok. Not as useful as the new hierarch. No more dead dark rituals late game
    Grief, Voidwalker and Ignoble could potentially make this deck playable again,

    Either BG or BW should finally have about to at least be playable.
    "eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"

  17. #1977
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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    I have been toying with a deck for some time and it now produces some decent results in small tournaments. However there is still lots of room for improvements.

    It started as a aggro controle mono black but i wanted answers to some troublesome cards. I could have gone to the classic pikula deck (BW) but i like the versatility of abrupt decay so i went into a green splash instead. I tried the dark ritual and the chrome moxen but liked none of them so finally i tried the diamond moxen. They are much more interesting but they required lots of changes in the deck to have them fit properly. So here is the last iteration of it :

    // 4 Artifact
    4 Mox Diamond

    // 16 Creature
    2 Tourach, Dread Cantor
    4 Dauthi Voidwalker
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Vampire Nighthawk
    2 Opposition Agent

    // 4 Instant
    4 Abrupt Decay

    // 24 Land
    2 Castle Locthwain
    4 Wasteland
    6 Swamp
    4 Bayou
    2 Forest
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Boseiju, Who Endures

    // 3 Planeswalker
    3 Liliana of the Veil

    // 10 Sorcery
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Raven's Crime
    2 Life from the Loam

    // 15 Sideboard
    SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
    SB: 1 Torpor Orb
    SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
    SB: 3 Plague Engineer
    SB: 2 Choke
    SB: 3 Chains of Mephistopheles
    SB: 2 Inquisition of Kozilek

    Sideboard is work in progress. As for the main deck, i am not sold at all about Castle Locthwain that look cute but i almost never use them to draw cards. I like the life from the loam but i am not sure at all they fit the plan (i could not test enough with them so far), i could put the chains of mephistopheles back in main deck instead. Vampire Nighthawk may look weird but are actually the best creatures in the deck (not counting Bob special mention ;) ) : they are a removal, a life gainer (dark confident + thoughtseize + fetch can be a lot in some match up) and a flying beater.
    Last edited by Albarkhane; 09-24-2022 at 04:45 PM.

  18. #1978
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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Your deck is an interesting mix of Eva Green and Loam Pox tools (Life from the Loam, Raven's Crime, Liliana, Mox). The Loam+Crime engine is much more controlling though, so I wonder how well it works with the black creatures.
    Actually that is exactly what i am wondering. Loams have nice synergy but i am not really sure it fits the plan, namely something else could be more strong.
    Basically, Loam is nice with wasteland and Boseiju (and allow raven crime) but could be just overkill.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I have been away from Legacy for some time and i just recently saw that scavenger existed. They could be a nice upgrade. I will buy some and will test them as soon as i get them.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Does this want Dark Ritual? You have many good 3-mana plays that are devastating on turn 1 (Opposition Agent, Liliana, Nighthawk). Otherwise it's a bit obvious you have opposition agent when you leave 3 lands untapped.
    The first iteration of that deck was playing 4 dark ritual but i was not so happy with them. I mean, they were doing good but not amazing. I removed them and tried chrome mox instead but i did not like them much (discard a black card that was mostly very useful to gain some speed was not worth it most of the time). So i decided to give a try to diamond moxen. They allow better access to green and lower the curve (because i play more lands) for Bob. Raven crime is interesting to get rid of those additional lands so it fits well.
    Last edited by Albarkhane; 08-14-2022 at 12:33 PM.

  19. #1979

    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    I think you need a clearer idea of what you want to do. Slow depths uses the discard/bob part of the deck better (lower cmc and can end the game faster) and loam pox utilizes crime/loam (more raw discard and needs to get back lands) better.

    What does this build offer you? You have these threats that want the dark ritual of monoB (voidwalker into discard, nightwalker or opposition agent) but then you have a separate package built around 2 mana (decay/mox/loam). If you want mox/loam you should run other cheaper threats. Imo crop rotation and hexmage, but it could be stuff like hexdrinker and elvish reclaimer.

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    Re: [Deck] Eva Green - B/g suicide

    I have a very clear idea about my plan but maybe i should explain it. ;)

    First, what is NOT my plan ?
    - My plan is not to run dark depths combo. Slow depths or lands will do that much better than i would do with my core deck. I know that mox + loam is leaning toward that direction but that is not the plan at all. And that is the reason why i question if loam really has its place in my deck (loam is just some addition with nice synergy and not at all the core strategy).
    - My plan is not a POX deck or any variation of it. I am using many disruption cards that are also used in POX but the reason is just i need some strong tools that black can provide but if better tools can be found i will change them of course. POX decks plan to disrupt opponent so much that he will decide he should have stayed in bed that day, then eventually kill him with whatever. I am using less disruption than POX and much more creatures.

    So the plan now :
    - Black has some nice creatures that are bear-like but carrying some added abilities (voidwalker, ...) that i find very interesting in the meta. I plan to win with them on the battlefield so basically i am playing a fair deck. Those creatures are in the 2-3 range for power and in the 2-3 range too for casting cost. That is much too slow to be a tempo deck so i need some controle and/or CA elements in my deck. Abilities on the creatures will help my plan but i will need more of course. So basically, strategy will be disruption and controle, and when path is clear enough, swing with those creatures.

    The creature pack :
    There can be other creatures of course, criteria is they should be some nice ability with legs. I find that playing about 16 creatures is a good balance as i want some board presence.
    - Dauthi voidwalker : a great beater with evasion, useful anti-graveyard ability, good synergy with discard. Sometimes you can live the dream but i don't really count on that. It can't block and sometimes it is a real problem.
    - Opposition agent : surprise blocker and beater with pseudo celerity, its ability is stronger if it can land quick (anti-fetch) and against some decks (blue, elves, entomb deck, ...). Leads to fun bluff by keeping 3 mana open now and then. Could be main or sideboard depending on expected meta but i like it as a main deck beater.
    - Plague engineer : deathtouch makes it a great blocker and some sort of creature removal. His ability can be really strong against the right deck. I see it more in sideboard but could be main deck in the right meta.
    - Tourach, dread cantor : can grow big with discard, synergy with chains of mephistopheles, protection against white is great. I would probably run more of it if it was not legendary.
    - Dark confidant : requires a low curve (average cc = 1,15 ), the deck runs enough disruption that it is a nice beater quite often. CA is important for the deck. No need to say more about it i guess.
    - Vampire nighthawk : Nighthawk scavenger is an obvious upgrade so it will be in instead. The only creature that has no special ability but it is sort of the glue that keeps the deck together. Deathtouch/lifelink/flying make it be some swiss knife. Gifted aetherborn was not kept because flying is important here.

    Get some color :
    Mono black is lacking some answers so i went for another color. White was possible and would have lead toward some Deadguy Ale deck. I chose the green way because of Abrupt Decay. It could be not the best choice but i find it interesting and leading toward something a bit different than what is played nowadays. It opens also other tools.

    The business pack :

    - Hymn to tourach for card advantage and thoughtseize for targetted discard. I also run 2 inquisition of Kozilek in sideboard either to add against combo or to switch with thoughtseize against burn-like decks.
    - Liliana of the veil is versatile as creature removal and/or discard so a must include i think. I used to run 1 Liliana, the last hope too but i had to cut her.
    - Chains of mephistopheles may look they are a sideboard card but i find them to be great against many decks in my meta. The synergy with Tourach, dread cantor is a real plus that gave me several games.
    - Abrupt decay is a great answer for problematic cards.
    - I used to run some Assassin's Trophy too (nice synergy with Opposition Agent) but i changed for Ratchet bomb that is a nice cure all too with less color requirement. I moved the bomb recently to sideboard (because of moxen) but they fit nicely in mainboard.
    - Boseiju, who endures is useful especially post side and has no real drawback beside not being a basic land. it has nice synergy with opposition agent too.
    - Castle Locthwain looks great on paper but i am quite disapointed with it. I almost never use it either because i have too many cards in hands or i have not enough mana or i am too low with life. Well, there is always something wrong. So it is on the watch list and could move away if i find better replacement. However some additional draw/CA would be great in the deck.

    Get some speed :

    The obvious first try was to play dark ritual, they were good but not amazing (they are at their best with opposition agent but i run only two of them). I tried with no acceleration at all and found it was lacking against many decks. Chrome mox was another obvious try but they felt akward : choosing the card to discard was always a pain and the acceleration was not worth it most of the time. I need my business cards especially at beginning of the game.
    So last try is mox diamond, they give more access to green which is always interesting but i need to play much more lands. Then, Raven's crime becomes a nice way to get rid of additional lands late in the game so i adjusted the discard pack. I am not sold on it for now but it was interesting enough so i will test it more. At last i added Life from the loam as a test : it fits well with moxen and raven's crime, it can recur wasteland and boseiju. I did not test it much yet but so far it does good (well obviously, it is a good card) but i am wondering if it really fits in the great scheme of things. Do i really need it for my plan ?

    Sideboard :
    It is still work in progress so not much to say about it so far. Choke looks cute but i never sided it in so far so it could move away.

    Here is more or less where i stand with it. It does decent results in several small paper tournaments but there is room for improvements and tests. I am looking forward advice, hints and any useful comment about it.

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