[Deck] Demon Stompy (Black Chalice/Tomb Aggro)

[Darkenslight]

Taskmaster looks good. Since we would be able to get him out by turn 2, and would not be affected by thr trinisphere lock.

The only downside I see is that he would be the lone beater, since we would not be able to cast other critters as long as he is on the board.

I strongly suspect that a build with tons of activatable artifacts to smash face with would be amusing. Cards like Phyrexian Totem, Chimeric Idol and other such sillies seems like a good alternate plan to Demon Aggro.

[Aernil]

Obviously you have to play a good amount of equipment to get the best out of taskmaster.
Generally it seems to be a bad idea to run those activated creatures (you'd have too many artifacts to support Chrome Mox, reducing the overall explosiveness).

Currently I'm testing something like this:

2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
9 Swamp
4 Ancient tomb
4 City of traitors

4 Demonic Taskmaster
4 Dauthi Marauder
4 Dusk Urchin
4 Shriekmaw
2 Phyrexian Negator

4 Chrome Mox
4 Bitterblossom
4 Liliana Vess
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void


Bitterblossom seems to be a solid choice with all those equipments.
Liliana adds some flexibility. Urchin seems decent when carrying a sword.

[Hireax]

I suppose that CotV is nearly always dropped at 0 or 1, so for mass creature removal, why not run Black Sun's Zenith? 2 of these might actually complement the CotV when you need it to.

Could Necroskitter work in this deck? Should an opponent come out with big creatures, for example in D. Stompy, this would complement the use of some removal. I reckon that BB would not be too much of a problem here.

Looking forward to see this develop :).

[Aernil]

Usually Chalice is dropped to 1, to 2 just when you have multiples.
Imho Necroskitter needs too much setup to be any good.
And playing Zenith would mean to kill off your own Marauders and more importantly, playing a card that does not kill or help to kill.

[Marchangel]

They spoiled this new guy, looks quite good to me:

http://mtgsalvation.com/return-to-ra...iler.html#6453

What do you guys think?

[Gheizen64]

They spoiled this new guy, looks quite good to me:

http://mtgsalvation.com/return-to-ra...iler.html#6453

What do you guys think?

It's worse than a 6/6 for 2BB without flying. Does that sound playable to you? The card's trash. Persecutor's much better.

[Cire]

Sort of want to make this deck work, since it looks like a lot of fun, so I apologize for the Necro. . .

Demon Stompy

*24 Mana Sources
4 Swamp
4 Ancient tomb
4 City of traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Chrome Mox
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

*12 Lock Peices
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Nether Void

*4 Other
4 Dark Ritual
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Shriekmaw

*12 Demons
4 Demonic Taskmaster
4 Desecration Demon
4 Abyssal Persecutor

----

So nothing really new - Desecration Demon was mentioned and passed over in the post right above mine, but i think it should be given a more careful look. I still don't understand why this deck never played the most powerful black lock piece ever made with Nether Void? It provides hilarious synergy with Caverns and the demons (yes i know it is expensive - but in my group I have just been using a proxy and no one really minds). I do wish there was more room for sac outlets for the persecutor however. I don't know why I am posting about this deck now - Theros added nothing. . . this deck was just on my mind. . .

[Mystical_Jackass]

Sort of want to make this deck work, since it looks like a lot of fun, so I apologize for the Necro. . .

Demon Stompy

*24 Mana Sources
4 Swamp
4 Ancient tomb
4 City of traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Chrome Mox
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

*12 Lock Peices
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Nether Void

*4 Other
4 Dark Ritual
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Shriekmaw

*12 Demons
4 Demonic Taskmaster
4 Desecration Demon
4 Abyssal Persecutor

----

So nothing really new - Desecration Demon was mentioned and passed over in the post right above mine, but i think it should be given a more careful look. I still don't understand why this deck never played the most powerful black lock piece ever made with Nether Void? It provides hilarious synergy with Caverns and the demons (yes i know it is expensive - but in my group I have just been using a proxy and no one really minds). I do wish there was more room for sac outlets for the persecutor however. I don't know why I am posting about this deck now - Theros added nothing. . . this deck was just on my mind. . .

Yeah I ran a very similar list, just one Nether Void though, a little while back. Mmm... I thought my list was sick on paper, the experience wasn't good, I personally don't think it holds up in the meta, just got slaughtered by Shardless, Maverick, Elves. Abrupt Decay could give two shits about Chalice or your beaters and neither do Liliana's/Jace's, and Percy can be a huge liability when they take out your sac, without better sac options. I just think that you straight up lose out in Attrition wars, Bitterblossom was the best card in my list hands down 'cause I could drop T1 3sphere into it and ride it for win, but I felt like all other big beaters were easily dealt with by these mid-range decks removal. That's basically it in a nutshell, I feel like you need to either just flat our win in 3 turns or you're going to lose if it ever turns into attrition, I'd mentioned before but I'd almost either just go Helm-Combo control or just go all-in with Bitterblossom, Sorin Markov, Braids, Unmask... drop 3sphere, drop finisher and hope to ride out to victory. Go ahead and try the Demon approach, but dont say I didn't warn you I guess >.>

[Darkenslight]

Has anyone tried Homicidal Seclusion and Erebos, God of the Dead as possibilities? What about the Gray Merchant of Asphodel?

[Mystical_Jackass]

Wups, above I meant "Sorin, Lord of Innistrad" not Markov.

Has anyone tried Homicidal Seclusion and Erebos, God of the Dead as possibilities? What about the Gray Merchant of Asphodel?

- Homicidal Seclusion is just awful, it's a bad and expensive SoLS with no CA being able to recur Shriekmaw or other creatures.
- Erebos is awful too, this deck plays very little , mainly colorless sources it's not the right fit. It's essentially playing Greed, would you play Greed in a deck with ancient tombs?
- Grey Mercha-- ...all right, you're joking or I'm getting trolled at this point. Sure, throw in 4x Highway Robber, too.

[Barook]

What do you guys think about Read the Bones and Toxic Deluge?

[Mystical_Jackass]

What do you guys think about Read the Bones and Toxic Deluge?

Read the Bones is interesting, but probably wrong deck for it. This decks is all-in, and the life loss it too much, it doesn't want to be digging for answers just playing threats and winning.

Toxic Deluge might have some potential, but the natural comparison is Bane of the Living which is probably better for the deck, although slower it acts as a threat and Infest all-in-one, and again, the life loss really adds up fast in the deck. The other comparison for its role is Engineered Plague, which is far more effective against tribal in most cases. That's my 2-cents

[Darkenslight]

Read the Bones is interesting, but probably wrong deck for it. This decks is all-in, and the life loss it too much, it doesn't want to be digging for answers just playing threats and winning.

Toxic Deluge might have some potential, but the natural comparison is Bane of the Living which is probably better for the deck, although slower it acts as a threat and Infest all-in-one, and again, the life loss really adds up fast in the deck. The other comparison for its role is Engineered Plague, which is far more effective against tribal in most cases. That's my 2-cents

One of the things in Deluge's favor, though, is its ability to be cast off Swamp+Sol land, which most of the other Black sweeper-effects aren't. My instinct is that it warrants testing, but is highly meta-dependent.

[Greenpoe]

The lifeloss isn't an issue. If you pay 2 life and kill a few 2/2's, you're effectively gaining life, and anyway, it deals with troublesome things (mana dorks for example).

[Mystical_Jackass]

Yeah, definitely test it and tell me what you think.

I'm skeptical on board sweeps in Chalice aggro because you don't gain a threat, so you don't get any tempo off it versus Bane of the Living does very much same thing and nets you a 4/3 beater after sweeping their weenies.

However, if you can turn it into a one-sided WoG it could be really good. T1 Chalice, T2 Negator, T3 Sweep them and swing. I guess I'm just skeptical, I'd almost rather just Snuff Out if vs non-black 'cause its a free spell, but I could be wrong.

[Darkenslight]

Yeah, definitely test it and tell me what you think.

I'm skeptical on board sweeps in Chalice aggro because you don't gain a threat, so you don't get any tempo off it versus Bane of the Living does very much same thing and nets you a 4/3 beater after sweeping their weenies.

However, if you can turn it into a one-sided WoG it could be really good. T1 Chalice, T2 Negator, T3 Sweep them and swing. I guess I'm just skeptical, I'd almost rather just Snuff Out if vs non-black 'cause its a free spell, but I could be wrong.

That's essentially the trade-off you're making - Snuff Out is pinpoint, but you can also cast it without using mana. Deluge can wipe everything, but you risk being blown out by Pierce or Daze.

[MGB]

Read the Bones is interesting, but probably wrong deck for it. This decks is all-in, and the life loss it too much, it doesn't want to be digging for answers just playing threats and winning.

Toxic Deluge might have some potential, but the natural comparison is Bane of the Living which is probably better for the deck, although slower it acts as a threat and Infest all-in-one, and again, the life loss really adds up fast in the deck. The other comparison for its role is Engineered Plague, which is far more effective against tribal in most cases. That's my 2-cents

You can't even compare Bane of the Living because the cost is so much higher than Deluge's. Cost is a huge deal in Legacy where tempo is everything. The ability to basically sweep the board of smaller creatures for only 2B is far superior and warrants inclusion in any kind of black deck, especially a black control deck or one that plays mostly larger creatures.

[Mystical_Jackass]

You can't even compare Bane of the Living because the cost is so much higher than Deluge's. Cost is a huge deal in Legacy where tempo is everything. The ability to basically sweep the board of smaller creatures for only 2B is far superior and warrants inclusion in any kind of black deck, especially a black control deck or one that plays mostly larger creatures.

I think it's a pretty easy comparison. So in an ideal game lets pretend you open with Chalice. Next turn you generally want to play a Beater. What you're saying is that in the next couple turns you'd probably play Deluge and "Infest" over the top to clear the board, which makes sense.

Now lets say the Beater you played is Bane of the Living. He now acts as a threat and Deluge in one, so you're using one card to serve the same function as two and you actually aren't losing tempo when you flip and infest the board, you're actually gaining CA and tempo. As far as mana cost, you're talking about 4-5 mana in a deck with 8 Sol lands and 4 chrome mox isn't that hard to pull off even when fighting waste.

[Darkenslight]

I think it's a pretty easy comparison. So in an ideal game lets pretend you open with Chalice. Next turn you generally want to play a Beater. What you're saying is that in the next couple turns you'd probably play Deluge and "Infest" over the top to clear the board, which makes sense.

Now lets say the Beater you played is Bane of the Living. He now acts as a threat and Deluge in one, so you're using one card to serve the same function as two and you actually aren't losing tempo when you flip and infest the board, you're actually gaining CA and tempo. As far as mana cost, you're talking about 4-5 mana in a deck with 8 Sol lands and 4 chrome mox isn't that hard to pull off even when fighting waste.

The problem is that, sometimes, you just need to kill that Goyf, which is scalar with your mana production. I'm not sure if Bane is better more often than Deluge is, but I think it at least warrants testing.

[MGB]

I think it's a pretty easy comparison. So in an ideal game lets pretend you open with Chalice. Next turn you generally want to play a Beater. What you're saying is that in the next couple turns you'd probably play Deluge and "Infest" over the top to clear the board, which makes sense.

Now lets say the Beater you played is Bane of the Living. He now acts as a threat and Deluge in one, so you're using one card to serve the same function as two and you actually aren't losing tempo when you flip and infest the board, you're actually gaining CA and tempo. As far as mana cost, you're talking about 4-5 mana in a deck with 8 Sol lands and 4 chrome mox isn't that hard to pull off even when fighting waste.

Being able to sweep the board with only a swamp and a sol-land is much more valuable in legacy than having a body left behind.

Tempo is the most important thing in this format. Bane is just to slow to be useful whereas Deluge is extremely aggressive wrt to its mana cost.